Did John Kerry cheat during the debate?????

black0ut said:
You're proving my point.. i'm criticizing people for believing everything they read... i dont believe everything I read. I speak with friends of mine who work in DC, I read articles from different states... i speak with local office holders. I do read the papers, and internet articles, but those are usually misconstrude

How by asking this am I prooving your point?

Your generalizations point to someone who isn't well read or informed...

1) The common man does not benefit from the views or policies the republicans implement.
2) Most of these hardcore bush supporters are from middle america, who were raised on the idea that war is necessary and right, and also raised with no idea of how the economy really works.

So by your thinking...Republicans and Conservatives are all stupid. Your generalizations point to someone who believes what is being put out there by the Liberal media.

Do I believe everything W does is correct..absolutely not. Do I believe he is a better canidate than Kerry at this time...Yes. Just as I believed Clinton was a better canidate than Bob Dole.
 
RICKZILLA1 said:
The problem for Bush in 2 of the key 4 states (Michigan and Florida) had a record number of voters registered. If even 60% of the expected turnout votes in these 2 states Kerry will pull both.We very well could have a reversal of last year and have Bush win the popular vote but lose the electoral vote and the overall election.

You are also forgetting about the 4+ million Evangelical Christians that did NOT vote in 2000. With hot topics such as stem cells, gay marriage, and abortion at the forefront.....these people will come out in droves and I'd bet 90+% will vote Republican.

Also, you are assuming that every black, asian, and poor white trash registered is actually gonna vote. They won't.
 
Kayz said:
Also, you are assuming that every black, asian, and poor white trash registered is actually gonna vote. They won't.

Let alone the percentage of this grup that is a lock to vote Democrat goes down with every year.
 
black0ut said:
...Bush speaks like an uneducated fool, and that makes him more like the common person, so he's a good president? Okay, first off... the common man does not benefit from the views or policies the republicans implement. Most of these hardcore bush supporters are from middle america, who were raised on the idea that war is necessary and right, and also raised with no idea of how the economy really works.

I am a common man and I think his policies have doen great things for my and my family.

I am from middle america (actually, a battleground state!! ooohhhh), and I was not raised to think that war was right and necessary. But I was raised that if someone hits me, I should hit them back harder and to stick up for myself.....not cower down and be a bitch.

As a businessman, I think I have a pretty good idea how the economy works....but why don't you educate me a little more.
 
Kayz said:
I was raised that if someone hits me, I should hit them back harder and to stick up for myself

I agree with retaliation to the point that the offender would never ever consider attacking you again, but Iraq never hit you ..

War is big business, and has throughout history been good for business. War sucks, and should only be implemented as a last resort, not as a way to boost economy. It hasnt been with this administration . The black vote and the vote of the under 25 will be the swing vote in this country . Bush was supposed to look untouchable on matters of Iraq and afghanistan, but you all saw they way he looked last thursday against President-Elect Kerry :) .


Bush now finds himself the underdog...and i am certain that DICK is going to get his ass handed to him tonite by Edwards.
 
Quasimoto said:
I agree with retaliation to the point that the offender would never ever consider attacking you again, but Iraq never hit you ..

War is big business, and has throughout history been good for business. War sucks, and should only be implemented as a last resort, not as a way to boost economy. It hasnt been with this administration . The black vote and the vote of the under 25 will be the swing vote in this country . Bush was supposed to look untouchable on matters of Iraq and afghanistan, but you all saw they way he looked last thursday against President-Elect Kerry :) .


Bush now finds himself the underdog...and i am certain that DICK is going to get his ass handed to him tonite by Edwards.

I agree that Iraq did not directly attack me, but I honestly believe that Iraq and Saddam was helping those individuals who aim to harm both me and my family. And no, I'm not believing everything I read or see on the news....it is just a feeling that I have. Saddam would kill me in a heart beat...trust me.

I fully agree with the idea of pre emptive attacks. If I know taht someone is gonna jump me or has plans to fuck me up......I'm gonna beat them so fucking bad BEFORE they get the chance that they will NEVER think about fuckign with me again.

And blacks will not be the swing vote....it will be the religious right.
 
Kayz said:
I fully agree with the idea of pre emptive attacks. If I know taht someone is gonna jump me or has plans to fuck me up......I'm gonna beat them so fucking bad BEFORE they get the chance that they will NEVER think about fuckign with me again.

If we dont change our foreign policy, we are gonna have to pre-emptively attack a bunch more countries. We arent doing very well in the world, incase anyone hadnt noticed.

I guess i think its important to ask, why do these other countries want to "fuck us up" in the first place ? Do they hate us for our freedom, like the talking monkey told me ?
 
Quasimoto said:
I guess i think its important to ask, why do these other countries want to "fuck us up" in the first place ? Do they hate us for our freedom, like the talking monkey told me ?

I think it depends on the country...

Some because we are "King of the mountain."
Some are just jealous.
Some hate the fact that we support Israel.
Some just hate "infidels"

Appeasement is certainly not the answer...

Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.
-- John Fitzgerald Kennedy, 01/21/1961

If you do things that are illegitimate in the eyes of the other people, it's very hard to get them to share the burden and risk with you.
-- John Forbes Kerry, 10/04/2004

Two very different Democrats speak. One speaks of national commitment. The other speaks of internationalism and appeasement.
 
Kayz said:
I am a common man and I think his policies have doen great things for my and my family.

I am from middle america (actually, a battleground state!! ooohhhh), and I was not raised to think that war was right and necessary. But I was raised that if someone hits me, I should hit them back harder and to stick up for myself.....not cower down and be a bitch.

As a businessman, I think I have a pretty good idea how the economy works....but why don't you educate me a little more.

What great things have they done for you and your family, I would LOVE to hear this. You have any idea what he has planned if he's in office another 4 years? Anyone catch his ideas to take away (i forget which, so please fix my statement) either realestate tax, or mortgage tax write offs? Yeah that will help us
Or his proposed budget for the upcoming battles in the Middle East?

So wait, Iraq hit us first? Woah man, what did I miss? I must've been sleeping while they did. At no point did Iraq hit us, they SUPPOSEDLY had weapons that they COULD use to hit us, but they never did. If this is your argument, go around to every fucker in middle america that owns a gun, and shoot him.. because he SUPPOSEDLY has a weapon that he COULD use to shoot you.

And as far as being a businessman, congrats brother... i won't hate on you for that. BUT, unless you're a BIG business owner, you are not gaining anything with a republican in office. Maybe your company is different, and you've seen raises over the past 4 years to compensate for the increase in costs, but I know I haven't
 
Kayz said:
I agree that Iraq did not directly attack me, but I honestly believe that Iraq and Saddam was helping those individuals who aim to harm both me and my family. And no, I'm not believing everything I read or see on the news....it is just a feeling that I have. Saddam would kill me in a heart beat...trust me.

I fully agree with the idea of pre emptive attacks. If I know taht someone is gonna jump me or has plans to fuck me up......I'm gonna beat them so fucking bad BEFORE they get the chance that they will NEVER think about fuckign with me again.

And blacks will not be the swing vote....it will be the religious right.

Saddam would kill you in a heart beat? Probably, BUT do you know how many other countries have radical groups, and men in power that would do the same? Fuck man, if you're concerned about this, why not be more concerned with North Korea? We KNOW they have the weapons, we don't need to send inspectors there... oh wait that's right they dont have oil, why do we care.

What sucks about religious rights, is that if people are SO religious, why don't more of them vote Kerry? The bible says that if someone hits you, just turn the other cheek... not send in an army to wipe out a government rule. Stem Cells is the way of the future, the way Diabetics, AID's patients, and those who are suffering, might find a way to get better. All it would take is for one person who had a family member who had an Autologous Bone Marrow transplant to come forward and say how he's voting for Kerry, because stem cell research saved his mothers/brother/father/sister/son/daughters life... for people to finally understand.
 
"oh wait that's right they dont have oil, why do we care."



Please man don't pull out the war for oil thing, If we wanted the oil we would have lifted sanctions and bought it. That's a lot cheaper than going to war don't you think? Thanks, find another point.


The bible may talk about turning the other cheek, but it also talks about justice.
 
You think the oil wasn't a huge factor? Regardless of what facts we have before the war, look at the facts that have occured AFTER the current problems. Bush has set up security areas ONLY around the oil fields. Actually, wasn't this a huge point made in the debate by Kerry? That we need to protect everything, power plants, army bases, everything... not just the oil.

I agree in Justice, but what Justice was served? We attacked a country when we DIDN'T find what we wanted to. We agreed we'd send in arms inspectors, as did many other countries. Together, they scoured Iraq looking high and low for weapons, and found nothing. Now whether or not these weapons were sold off, dismantled, or moved... THEY WERE NOT IN IRAQ!! So we attacked them anyway? Please, if you're going to say Justice was served, back it up... Warring with Afghanistan WAS justice... for doing what they did to us, but the war in Iraq was for Bush's own private agendas.
 
black0ut said:
You think the oil wasn't a huge factor? Regardless of what facts we have before the war, look at the facts that have occured AFTER the current problems. Bush has set up security areas ONLY around the oil fields. Actually, wasn't this a huge point made in the debate by Kerry? That we need to protect everything, power plants, army bases, everything... not just the oil.

I agree in Justice, but what Justice was served? We attacked a country when we DIDN'T find what we wanted to. We agreed we'd send in arms inspectors, as did many other countries. Together, they scoured Iraq looking high and low for weapons, and found nothing. Now whether or not these weapons were sold off, dismantled, or moved... THEY WERE NOT IN IRAQ!! So we attacked them anyway? Please, if you're going to say Justice was served, back it up... Warring with Afghanistan WAS justice... for doing what they did to us, but the war in Iraq was for Bush's own private agendas.

You seem to forget that we are taking zero dollars from the sale of Iraqi oil. It's being used to rebuild and restore the country and it's people.

There are plenty of places besides oil fields that are being protected. The oil fields if destroyed can obviousely cause the most damage. Kuwait is still cleaning up.
 
black0ut said:
What great things have they done for you and your family, I would LOVE to hear this. You have any idea what he has planned if he's in office another 4 years? Anyone catch his ideas to take away (i forget which, so please fix my statement) either realestate tax, or mortgage tax write offs? Yeah that will help us
Or his proposed budget for the upcoming battles in the Middle East?

So wait, Iraq hit us first? Woah man, what did I miss? I must've been sleeping while they did. At no point did Iraq hit us, they SUPPOSEDLY had weapons that they COULD use to hit us, but they never did. If this is your argument, go around to every fucker in middle america that owns a gun, and shoot him.. because he SUPPOSEDLY has a weapon that he COULD use to shoot you.

And as far as being a businessman, congrats brother... i won't hate on you for that. BUT, unless you're a BIG business owner, you are not gaining anything with a republican in office. Maybe your company is different, and you've seen raises over the past 4 years to compensate for the increase in costs, but I know I haven't

My family is a "big" business owner...at least we are classifieds as such based on total sales and the number of employees we staff. I consider us a small business because we are family run and operated and always will be. We have a very personal relationship with out employees.

And as far as how I'm doing better. Well, I refinanced my house to get the lowest interest rate in history and saved over $200 a month on my payments. I bought a new car using the same low interest rates.

My business has been able to spend a great deal of money on new equipment in order to help us run more efficiently and effectively.

Personally, as a business owner, I'd love to see the "inheritance/death tax" be repealed. It is not fair to tax people twice on the same money.

Under John Kerry's tax plan, my businesses would have to pay much hihger taxes as we would fall into the tax bracket that is just outside that of the larger corporations....so yeah, I want Bush for 4 more years.

You are making the assumptions that I care about everybody in America...well, I don't. I care about my family, my g/f, my employees, and myself...that is it!!! I want what is best for me and my family.

And comparing middle america to terrorists is the stupidest analogy I have ever heard in my life....you just showed your ass on that one partner.

You truly must be "blacked out"!!!
 
Kayz said:
My family is a "big" business owner...at least we are classifieds as such based on total sales and the number of employees we staff. I consider us a small business because we are family run and operated and always will be. We have a very personal relationship with out employees.

And as far as how I'm doing better. Well, I refinanced my house to get the lowest interest rate in history and saved over $200 a month on my payments. I bought a new car using the same low interest rates.

My business has been able to spend a great deal of money on new equipment in order to help us run more efficiently and effectively.

Personally, as a business owner, I'd love to see the "inheritance/death tax" be repealed. It is not fair to tax people twice on the same money.

Under John Kerry's tax plan, my businesses would have to pay much hihger taxes as we would fall into the tax bracket that is just outside that of the larger corporations....so yeah, I want Bush for 4 more years.

You are making the assumptions that I care about everybody in America...well, I don't. I care about my family, my g/f, my employees, and myself...that is it!!! I want what is best for me and my family.

And comparing middle america to terrorists is the stupidest analogy I have ever heard in my life....you just showed your ass on that one partner.

You truly must be "blacked out"!!!

My point wasnt to compare terrorism to middle america. I was just showing you that your statement was flawed. Interest rates being low IS probably the only benefit that GWB has bestowed on us... and it wasn't even his doing. It was residual from Clintons term in office. Interest rates are just starting to go on the rise again (I just took out a mortgage 3 days ago).
I understand you care only about those directly part of your life, and that is fine. I care about mine, and that is why I feel the way I do too. I guess you are not part of the class that should vote democratic, but I think your facts are a tiny bit off. You're attributing what you have now to Bush, but honestly a lot of it was set into motion by Clinton, and we're just catching the tail end of it now. Our country is gonna be in a shitstorm of debt after this term, so even if Kerry wins, we're gonna be hurtin... b/c of the residual crap left by Bush.
 
Trust me, Clinton damn near put us out of business....he did nothing to help my company and here is why. Clinton gave unprecedented power to the EPA. The EPA answers to no one!!! Congressman and Senators are afraid to question/challenge the EPA for fear of being labelled anti-environment.

But let me tell you one thing: NAFTA is not to be blamed for jobs going overseas (well maybe to a certain point)...Bush is not to be blamed for jobs going overseas.....it is the fucking EPA that is forcing jobs overseas becasue they make it impossible for small businesses to operate in this country!!!

And that my friends, is a fact. I deal with the EPA every fucking day and they don't give a shit what is in your water or air....they care about labels!!!!

We manufacture many products that require and EPA registration, which takes several years to get. Every so often (when Congress cuts the EPA's budget or diverts money to other EPA programs), the EPA will call for what amounts to a "re-certification" of our labels. I just went thru this last fall.

We were required to make 1 (ONE) change to our label. In the warning guidelines, the original label reads "...if in eye, wash with water for 15 minutes..". The NEW AND IMPROVED label reads "...if in eyes, wash with water...". Basically, eyes needed to be plural.

That alone costed us $32,000 to have our 3 labels re-approved for another cycle.

They never ask us for product samples..they never test our products..they never test the effluent material that contains our products...but our damn labels better be right.

How does that help small business????

Thank you Mr. Clinton!!!
 
Quasimoto said:
My buddy sent me this pic..i had to laugh. Thought i'd share...you guys all know where i stand though.

LOL....that is funny. John drives one end and Tootsie Heinz drives the other. :D
 
Windigo said:
I think this goes to prove the liberal mindset. No concept of a business friendly environment. No concept of creating the kind of environment that allows people to stand up, take the initiative and realize their full potential and the potential of this great land.

In their minds unless a government bureaucrat is handing you other people's money for doing nothing then the government is doing nothing for you and your family. It makes me sick.

Could not agree with you more buddy. In the world of liberals, making money and providing a good life for your family, is a crime if there are still homeless people in the world. In other words, I should feel ashamed for putting myself thru school and getting a top notch education, going to work with my dad to help him out, and making a nice living.

But let me elaborate a little more why "small businesses" are so important to this country and economy. I'm gonna use a scenario from this past business year at our business.

We did pretty well financially. The economy was in a good recovery, and our suppliers/vendors had enough money (from the tax cuts) to hire more people and modernize their facilities. This in turn, lowered OUR cost of goods and we were able to turn a better profit. Did we go out and buy company cars?? NO. Did we take our 5 biggest customers on trips?? NO.

We took all that extra money and hired more people so that we could cut back on all the unnecessary overtime we had been paying for so long because we could not afford to hire new people as it would raise our insurance premiums. In essence, we hired about 12 new people (only about half of them actually wanted to work though, so we had to fire the other half) and provided them and their families with insurance.

We also purchased 2 new truck chassis at $70K each (from a local manufacturer). Another local tractor/trailer company mounted the tanks on them....another $10K.

We built a new fume scrubber at our plant so that our employees could work in a cleaner, safer environment. It cost $55K (it was purchased from a company in our state).

We paid a plumber approximately $9500 to erect the new scrubber and plumb it into our system (the plumber is also a local contractor that we have used for years)

We paid the electricians about $11K to hook the scrubber up. It has several large pumps and motors on it and required a tremendous amount of power to run. (these electricians, like the plumbers are local contractors who we use on a regular basis).

By doing this, we have helped dozens of other individuals and their respective businesses. That is the beauty of a free market like the US. You are free to trade and work with whom you please.

And I get tired of hearing that the tax cuts went to the wealthiest 1% because you know what.......we pay the fucking taxes in this country....we are th ones who reinvest into the market place......we are the ones who hire new people.....we are the ones who keep this country running. NOt the low lifes of this great land who want everything handed to them because Kerry/Edwards has told them they are "entitled to it".
 
"Bush has set up security areas ONLY around the oil fields. Actually, wasn't this a huge point made in the debate by Kerry? That we need to protect everything, power plants, army bases, everything... not just the oil."



Bro don't you realize that the oil is the only thing that will get that country up and running? When they burn those oil fields Iraq loses valuable resources that it needs to develope. Without the oil and the ability to be able to leave the country on its own and prosper, it would ALL be in vain. So yes, oil is a very important factor, but not for our benefit like everyone believes. If it was, then damn why are gas prices still 2.20+ out here in cali lol
 
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