bigdaddydrew
New Member
just curious as to how many competitors use cheat days as part of diet for shows . ive been using them for first time and seems to work great so far, how bout others?
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
cheat days
- Thread starter bigdaddydrew
- Start date
bigbench
New Member
I have to use them. Not saying that I will go to McDonalds and stuff my face, but I will carb and fat (healthy fats) load to a tremednious degree after my results become stale or if I just get too burnt out. I usually wont cheat within the last few weeks, unless my conditioning is above par in what im planning. But the last two weeks, no cheats for me
Stormbringer
New Member
Agree with BB on carbs and fats up till about 4 weeks out if metabolism or fat loss seems to have stalled. Then no more.
advanced-stealth
Subscriber
Very good way to do it BB.
dennis
New Member
Be carefull not to go overboard on cheat days like stated above.About 12 years ago I had been extremely strict for 8 weeks..my body fat was right where the trainer wanted it to be..she told me..go have a cheat day this weekend..anything you want...I ordered and ate an entire dominoes large pizza..I threw up a few hours later.Just a few months later she turned me loose again..she says ..go eat any way you like..this time I ate 8 pounds of boiled crawfish..later that night..and all night I was up throwing up again ! So..in short..be sensible about your cheat day..d
bigdaddydrew
New Member
im 4 weeks out from show have been doing weekly cheats, been working great. will do last cheat prob this weekend, just to play it safe, but think i could even do 2 weeks out. but being 1st show using cheats will drop them 3 weeks out then will do reg carb up last couple days b4 show
iluvdeadlifts
New Member
Ha ha ha, talk about taking things to extremes!!! Although I must admit, I had a list of foods that I wanted to eat after my last comp. Filled an A4 page with 2 columns. Took me 3 days to clear the list [
)]
dennis
New Member
I am on week 2 of my 30 day very low carb cutting diet..i am still feeling tired..0 energy..have had cough and respitory problem for 10 days now ! I still have not cheated 1 single time.I was due for a cheat day over the weekend but skipped it..I am very focused right now.It is amazing to watch everyone around me and how they eat !!!!They all wonder why they are fat or just do not care!
iluvdeadlifts
New Member
Ha ha don't you think that it's strange that you only think this when you're on a really strict diet! I'm the same bro, you don't look at people the same way
jasthace
New Member
yuwn....it's a long read but its [|)]
Every muscle cell has about 50 different types of receptor-sites. Most receptorsites
can only be activated by their specific chemical counter part. This is like a key
that fits and actuates only one type of lock. The receptor-site specific to testosterone
and other AAS (Anabolic/Androgenic Steroids) is called a muscle cell androgen
receptor-site.
When an AAS molecule merges with an androgen receptor-site, interesting
things happen...or not. The androgen receptor / AAS molecule complex travels inside
the cell and delivers a "make new proteins" (protein synthesis/ anabolism) message by
way of DNA/mRNA interaction.
The result is repair of damaged proteins and subsequent growth due to over
compensation if the number of anabolic messages exceeds the number of catabolic
(tissue wasting) messages occurring. In short, hypertrophy. Cool huh?
Low cellular ATP/CP levels seriously screw up the whole program. When cells
contain adequate, or about, amounts of ATP, androgen receptors are continuously
moving in and out of them. They must be outside of the cell to merge with AAS
molecules and then be capable of moving inside of the cell to trigger the
whole "Make new proteins" sequence. This is great until cellular ATP/CP reserves
suck. The entry of androgen receptors into cells is ATP/energy dependent, but the
exit is not. This means low ATP levels trap androgen receptors outside of the cell
nucleus. When this happens, AAS molecules merge with androgen receptors and no
signal or message is transmitted regardless of the level of androgens circulating in
the body.
So when is cellular ATP/CP low? A single set of curls reduces the level of bicep
muscle cell ATP/CP significantly as you may realize since positive failure occurs.
Imagine the reduction that results from all of the sets that follow!
Another reality also reduces cellular ATP/CP. When muscle fibers are damaged
from training, inflammation results. The inflammation is due to an increase in water
being pumped into the muscle fibers (we call this swelling). The damage triggers the
pumps located on the surface of each cell which then works feverously to pump out
the incoming water. Their goal is to rebalance the intracellular and extracellular
(inside and outside) water tables by forcing out salt.
Unfortunately, the extracellular water rushes into damaged cells at a high rate
forcing the pumps to work very hard. This would appear to be a good thing, since
increased cellular volume triggers osmotic induced anabolism (growth caused by an
increase in total intracellular nutrients and cell stretching). But it's not.
As a result of these cellular pumps requiring ATP/energy to actuate, energy
stores are further depleted. So the water pumping process further decreases cellular
ATP/CP stores and inhibits receptor activity even more. To make things worse,
damage causes the intracellular release of calcium and other factors which destroy
androgen receptors thus reducing the possible number of AAS molecule / androgen
receptor-site mergence or paring.
Diet has a profound effect upon cellular ATP/CP stores and formation. When an
athlete decreases available energy /ATP substrates (Nutrients from which ATP/energy
can be manufactured by bodily processes), cellular loss of CP occurs and the entry of
any creatine source is inhibited. This is simply due to a decrease in cellular energy
/ATP available for cellular processes as a result of reduced calorie /substrate intake.
In short, you feel lazy and so do your cells. This is a major reason why AAS
provided very poor muscle building qualities during calorie restricted periods. It was
very important to use a carbohydrate "spike" day every 3rd or 4th day during diet
phases and AAS use. This simply meant eating more carbs on a "spike" day to refill
glycogen stores so creatine and androgens in the blood stream can enter muscle
cells.
Every muscle cell has about 50 different types of receptor-sites. Most receptorsites
can only be activated by their specific chemical counter part. This is like a key
that fits and actuates only one type of lock. The receptor-site specific to testosterone
and other AAS (Anabolic/Androgenic Steroids) is called a muscle cell androgen
receptor-site.
When an AAS molecule merges with an androgen receptor-site, interesting
things happen...or not. The androgen receptor / AAS molecule complex travels inside
the cell and delivers a "make new proteins" (protein synthesis/ anabolism) message by
way of DNA/mRNA interaction.
The result is repair of damaged proteins and subsequent growth due to over
compensation if the number of anabolic messages exceeds the number of catabolic
(tissue wasting) messages occurring. In short, hypertrophy. Cool huh?
Low cellular ATP/CP levels seriously screw up the whole program. When cells
contain adequate, or about, amounts of ATP, androgen receptors are continuously
moving in and out of them. They must be outside of the cell to merge with AAS
molecules and then be capable of moving inside of the cell to trigger the
whole "Make new proteins" sequence. This is great until cellular ATP/CP reserves
suck. The entry of androgen receptors into cells is ATP/energy dependent, but the
exit is not. This means low ATP levels trap androgen receptors outside of the cell
nucleus. When this happens, AAS molecules merge with androgen receptors and no
signal or message is transmitted regardless of the level of androgens circulating in
the body.
So when is cellular ATP/CP low? A single set of curls reduces the level of bicep
muscle cell ATP/CP significantly as you may realize since positive failure occurs.
Imagine the reduction that results from all of the sets that follow!
Another reality also reduces cellular ATP/CP. When muscle fibers are damaged
from training, inflammation results. The inflammation is due to an increase in water
being pumped into the muscle fibers (we call this swelling). The damage triggers the
pumps located on the surface of each cell which then works feverously to pump out
the incoming water. Their goal is to rebalance the intracellular and extracellular
(inside and outside) water tables by forcing out salt.
Unfortunately, the extracellular water rushes into damaged cells at a high rate
forcing the pumps to work very hard. This would appear to be a good thing, since
increased cellular volume triggers osmotic induced anabolism (growth caused by an
increase in total intracellular nutrients and cell stretching). But it's not.
As a result of these cellular pumps requiring ATP/energy to actuate, energy
stores are further depleted. So the water pumping process further decreases cellular
ATP/CP stores and inhibits receptor activity even more. To make things worse,
damage causes the intracellular release of calcium and other factors which destroy
androgen receptors thus reducing the possible number of AAS molecule / androgen
receptor-site mergence or paring.
Diet has a profound effect upon cellular ATP/CP stores and formation. When an
athlete decreases available energy /ATP substrates (Nutrients from which ATP/energy
can be manufactured by bodily processes), cellular loss of CP occurs and the entry of
any creatine source is inhibited. This is simply due to a decrease in cellular energy
/ATP available for cellular processes as a result of reduced calorie /substrate intake.
In short, you feel lazy and so do your cells. This is a major reason why AAS
provided very poor muscle building qualities during calorie restricted periods. It was
very important to use a carbohydrate "spike" day every 3rd or 4th day during diet
phases and AAS use. This simply meant eating more carbs on a "spike" day to refill
glycogen stores so creatine and androgens in the blood stream can enter muscle
cells.
FiberSynk
New Member
instead of a cheat day, where the calorie map would be blown out of the water and you would consume 2x what you need, inevitably converting some into bodyfat, could you instead have micro spikes throughout the day, with much smaller amounts of carbs ingested. I would think that would be healthier, easy to manage and most importantly more productive in terms of keeping fat off. I mean in calorie deficite a human body is already in starvation mode, one day of overeating can essentially regain the calorie deficite induced the entire week leading up to the cheat day,
Consider -500 calories per day, or a projected one pound of fat per week (3500 calories) If you binged at the end of your 7 days (only 6 on wich had a defecit so you start at -3k)
2 Whoopers or Bigmacs or Sirlon burgers or whatever =1800.
Large fry= 500
Ice cream Sunday= 600.
2900 from one potential meal, and dont for a second kid yourself into thinking most of us couldnt annihilate that much food after weeks of dieting. That is just negated your entire week.
I say no to cheat days, and yes to cheat snacks, thats without considering the health problems of yoyoing calories.
jasthace
New Member
bigbench
New Member
I see what your saying, but to be clear, we are not talking about cheating every single week. This is more for people who are dieting for a contest and that can last for some people up to four months. So, tehre is no set day or amount of times oe scheduled days ot cheat. Some people can go forever without eating junk or carbs and it never get to them. But for the majority, it is very draining mentally and physically. There are two basic reasons to cheat on your diet. One, for the mental boost. Getting so bored, watching everyone eating everything, counting every single calorie you put into your body. Checking, checking, and checking again to make sure you dont go over your daily limit of carbs and fats, it will get to you. And if you have ever dieted down for a contest, you will know about how pissy you can get and want to snap at every single person you know. The other part, is to replinish your body. Like you said, your body is in starvation mode, but what gets eaten faster than anything, is muscle. It is the most metabolic part of your body. So, after you have depleted your body to the extream, you can not only recharge your metabolism to be running at full speed again, you get some energy back, and you can actually refill your muscles with some much needed glycogen which helps them stay full, strong and keeps them from shrinking. When you over eat, you become anabolic, so when you use your cheat day right (again, not eating BAD foods, just more carbs and calories than normal) then you can keep fat gain to a min and muscle refull to a max
FiberSynk
New Member
Well a slight correction would be to say that amino acids can be convereted into glucose faster than fat, but fat is still the body's perfered energy source after of course glucose and glycogen, had it not be we wouldnt exercise to lose fat we would loose 100% muscle. Thats why the best fat burning workouts are semi long duration low to moderate intensity. Yeah, if you were to fast for 24 hours and do some serious wind sprints your body would probably begin to break down existing amio acids, but remember it will use whats in the blood before the muscle, and if you are eating enough protein and getting proper vitamins you have at least 24 hours of amino's before your body begins to canabalize otherwise hikier, bikers and marathoners would look like concentration camp victims (I know some do, but ive seen some beefy triatheletes when I was in the millitary) .
Anyways everything you have said makes sense of course, but I think you are looking at it from a somewhat over-technical standpoint. You are attempting to provide a post-action solution to something that needs to be 100% prevenative. See what I would advise is this, if it takes you 16 weeks to diet down and you are a serious BB, one of three things needs to happen.
1> you get a better diet and cardio routine.
2> you maitain lower BF levels throughout the year making everything more managable.
3> you pick a different hobby.
THe mood swings is 100% involuntary and cannot be confused with dangerous dieting techniques which are voluntary, in calorie deficite healthy or not you are going to be pissy with yoyoing insuling and amino spikes all day and not sleeping well because of a lower dietary fat intake, but these are not execuses to do more damage that what BB does already to a healthy person or to go on an indulgence bing. Basically if a person feels the need to reward themselves with a decadent bing eat every 2 weeks to maintain momentum or forward proggress they need to rethink their motivations or hobbies. I am not saying someone should or should not do this, what I am saying is that it is in no way logically neccesary and is just setting one back in the long run.
Anyways everything you have said makes sense of course, but I think you are looking at it from a somewhat over-technical standpoint. You are attempting to provide a post-action solution to something that needs to be 100% prevenative. See what I would advise is this, if it takes you 16 weeks to diet down and you are a serious BB, one of three things needs to happen.
1> you get a better diet and cardio routine.
2> you maitain lower BF levels throughout the year making everything more managable.
3> you pick a different hobby.
THe mood swings is 100% involuntary and cannot be confused with dangerous dieting techniques which are voluntary, in calorie deficite healthy or not you are going to be pissy with yoyoing insuling and amino spikes all day and not sleeping well because of a lower dietary fat intake, but these are not execuses to do more damage that what BB does already to a healthy person or to go on an indulgence bing. Basically if a person feels the need to reward themselves with a decadent bing eat every 2 weeks to maintain momentum or forward proggress they need to rethink their motivations or hobbies. I am not saying someone should or should not do this, what I am saying is that it is in no way logically neccesary and is just setting one back in the long run.
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bigbench
New Member
Again, I do completely agree with what your saying. Let me just add a few things in there that might help clarify exactly what im saying. As to the whole 16 week diet routine. That is not just for the people who try to bulk as much as possible and then try to lose 60 lbs of fat in that time frame. I myself will never be over 12% bf, yet will take any where from 12-16 weeks to diet down. The reason I do so, is because I ease into it. I dont just start from day one and cut out all carbs and fats. I will take about 6 weeks to be all the way into the diet. Also, if someone goes from doign practically zero cardio to 3 hours a day, they are going to do more wasting than anything to their bodies. So again, use it as an easing process. And no, I dont say to cheat every two weeks. I will admit, im a pasta fan. I will eat just bowls of it if I can. At about the 8 week mark, THAT is when I cut it out completely. So, maybe for the next 8 weeks, I will spend two days eating pasta. I totally agree with what you are saying, but I just wanted to add WHY I like to do things my way so that you can see where im coming from. I have helped a few people get ready for their contests and I am wtih you, I make sure they are leaner going into their diet than normal and I sort of ease them into it. It keeps the sides and depression and energy loss down much more than normal
FiberSynk
New Member
Yeah thats pretty much good general advice, although I do draw a distinction between easing into a diet and having cheat days throughout the diet, or once the diet is "terminal" if you will like yours at 8 weeks and forward. It all depends on the person to a great extent thats why giving BB advice is so arbitrary and borderline useless. I mean you got one guy saying do nothing but incline bc he has poor uniformity across his pecs and the guy next to him says "WTF for?!" with his perfect pecs from nothing but heavy flat bench ect......
I mean 16 weeks for the entire routine isnt so bad, I kinda like Dorian Yates approach during his reign where he would peak 2 weeks out and start to go flat then slowly back up on the food keeping his cardio the same that way he comes in shredded and full and not just one like soo many guys do today. And remember for you pasta is your thing, well for many years pasta was concidered a must for a BB diet! I remember 10 years ago successfull BB were coming into contest at >3% bf on diets of tuna and brown rice (chemically the most analogous to pasta I can think of, at least wheat pasta) so I wouldnt say pasta is a cheat food, a cheat food to me is something I wouldnt normally consume for its functionality. LIke Jay Cutler likes to babble on about not ever eating food for its taste only its function, well a cheat food to me is one that serves no function but taste, and pasta definately has an athletic function.
Eating 2 bowls of pasta througout a cut isnt going to kill you, hell it would probably make your workouts better, I guess its just in my mind a cheat food is something essentially uselss from a BB standpoint.
I mean 16 weeks for the entire routine isnt so bad, I kinda like Dorian Yates approach during his reign where he would peak 2 weeks out and start to go flat then slowly back up on the food keeping his cardio the same that way he comes in shredded and full and not just one like soo many guys do today. And remember for you pasta is your thing, well for many years pasta was concidered a must for a BB diet! I remember 10 years ago successfull BB were coming into contest at >3% bf on diets of tuna and brown rice (chemically the most analogous to pasta I can think of, at least wheat pasta) so I wouldnt say pasta is a cheat food, a cheat food to me is something I wouldnt normally consume for its functionality. LIke Jay Cutler likes to babble on about not ever eating food for its taste only its function, well a cheat food to me is one that serves no function but taste, and pasta definately has an athletic function.
Eating 2 bowls of pasta througout a cut isnt going to kill you, hell it would probably make your workouts better, I guess its just in my mind a cheat food is something essentially uselss from a BB standpoint.
bigbench
New Member
Damn fiber, I think we are going to need to start our own thread! Lol. Yeah, again, I didnt specify. When I cheat, its still relativly healthy. I dont eat fast food and junk. I have gone so long wtihout it that I dont even think about it when I talk about food or eating. And although most pasta is healthy. I do go wtih wheat pasta most of the time, but my lil bro works at an italian restaurant so I wil endulge in a five pound container of some good chicken and shrimp pasta once or twice a diet. It always hits the spot
FiberSynk
New Member
Yeah pasta to me is just a tool you can use to grow if you want. I dont normally eat any type of total plant starch except for brown rice bc I just found a terryaki place that sells it within 2 min of work and veggies, I had a nightmare about italian food after I watched a dateline special about the caloric content of the average italian food dish. I dont know where you are located but the average chain of italian resturaunts in the US (which have less fat on average than mom and pop owned resturaunts) has a mean of 2800 calories per meal, with a low of 1900 and a high of 4500. I think it was spaghetti and meatballs with meatsauce had an average of 75 grams of saturated fat accross all the places they surveyed.
thats gnarely.
But to most people I think the term cheat = Food they have no business really eating, on or off a BB cut diet, things like hard candies, cheesburgers, corndogs ect....
thats gnarely.
But to most people I think the term cheat = Food they have no business really eating, on or off a BB cut diet, things like hard candies, cheesburgers, corndogs ect....
bigbench
New Member
Yeah, I learned that the hard way. The first person I told to go out and enguldge himself just a bit. He wasnt cutting for a contest, but for long term goals. We met once a week. I told him, you can have a day that you let yourself slack a bit. Well, thinking that he might be responsible, he went out and ate Mcdonalds, Burger King, Taco Bell, all for abuot almost the whole week. He ate so much of it he gained 15 lbs. (yes, a good amount was water weight) but I couldnt believe he did that. That is what you get for ASSUMING things. And yeah, I have seen the nutritional content of what I eat. It has a total of about 5000 cals but about 130 grams of protein and only 30 grams of fat while 10 grams come from Trans. And I dont eat it all in one sitting, I will break it up into three smaller meals. Maybe eat a little bit when I drink a shake or something like that. Just to keep the cals coming in.
Same thing happened to me today as with dennis a while back, I have been eating the same thing for the past 4 weeks, and tommorow i go see a nutritionist to get me on a strict diet for cutting down, so i decided to eat lunch with friends today, of coruse they decide to eat taco bell, and i get there and just eat a burrito with some chips and beans and cheese, and literally 15 minutes after eating it, i felt like i was going to throw up, i had a ridiculous headache for about an hour or 2, and just felt like crap, cheat meals are good, but dont do anything dumb like me and eat poorly. I like BBs idea to still semi watch what you eat.
