The basic answer is cardio about 2.5 hrs after pinning subq, and maybe closer to 1.5 hrs or less if IM
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RoxasShadow
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yeah but most likely i will want to take it early in the morning before workout i think rather than for the afternoon walk?
so i think something like this should work unless i am wrong about it being optimal: i'll take advantage of the wait to get back to do breakfast instead of training fasted – so I wake up, pin and have espresso, 30g whey, 45g rice krispies; leave home after 1h, start training at ~T90' and have breakfast once back home (including shower will be like T3.5h).
If I need instead to leave home later than that 60' i will need to postpone the workout to lunch time i think or postpone the pinning away from workout.
But if I understand correctly, my 90' workout overlaps the 2-4.5h window where GH-driven lipolysis is strongest after the initial 1-2 hour lag phase, so should be optimal.
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He does fully say in the book to feel free to have breakfast basically…maybe a bit before the pin is optimal ibut whatever
RoxasShadow
New Member
This was a great first (of many re-)reading. Thanks @Type-IIx for putting all this content in a condensed, clear and complete form - many pages of the first part are very advanced, but many others especially those "practical" were almost an ELI5 (although I would have loved a bit more scenarios and use cases - reading through this thread there are few Q&A that would have benefited imho the fat loss section).
One question that I still have is:
1. would the use of GLP1 such as Retatrutide change the timing for injection since you say (sic.) "[in normal (non-diabetic) people, blood sugar returns to baseline about 120 minutes afteram eal]."?
This assumptions with GLP1s I believe significantly extend this timeline, I guess around 30-60'.
"Research shows GLP-1 receptor agonists increase mean gastric emptying time by approximately 36 minutes compared to placebo, though individual variability exists. More importantly, the postprandial glucose excursion is substantially blunted and prolonged when GLP-1 pathways are active. This means if you consume a meal 1 hour pre-bolus as suggested in the original advice, your blood glucose may not return to baseline within the expected 120-minute window."
This would mean that administering at the same time preworkout and rHGH wouldn't work as intended as the meal probably would need to be consumed much before the bolus I think.
2. For early fasted workouts, what would be the closest window between rHGH administration and leaving home for a 20' walk to the gym and start resistance training?
3. The example you provide for the workout is a L. McDonald-style mix of HIIT-LISS cardio session. Would a walk to/from the gym and a classic PPL-style training be still effective or would you rather administer rhGH for an evening cardio session?
4. I like the rationale for the 6M cycle. How would a skipped month affect it, I wonder?
Thanks in advance.
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Type-IIx
Member
In your case you'd want to just pin the GH 2.5 h ± before leaving for the gym, that applies to gym in the morning or afternoon for you; and on your off-days, nighttime before bed. GLP-1s and GH are synergistic for fat loss. There's no timing effect caused by GLP-1 use… just use them in combination, there is no way to fuck it up! I will publish an article by tomorrow about combined GLP-1s and RhGH for fat loss to https://typeiix.substack.com
Type-IIx
Member
The combined effect of GLP-1 + RhGH is that RhGH just overpowers the GLP-1 antidiabetogenic effects, with some tamping-down of peak blood glucose. The practical effect is basically nil – you can't fuck up your fat loss by combining the two. You just want to pin GH 2.5 h ± before leaving for the gym in your case. Good eye, it is very similar to Lyle's HIIT/LISS design. Yes, there is still substantial fat loss whether you do a bit of LISS before or after a PPL session. Even a nighttime bolus of GH substantially increases lipolysis in a resistance training bout the following day.
RoxasShadow
New Member
This is very, very interesting and a bit counter-intuitive - so thank you for the clarification - i can't wait for your article to be published.
I think, personally, since as you say the nighttime bolus is still effective the early morning after, I am going to inject before bed (90' after dinner) so that I can wake up and go straight to the gym - slightly unoptimal but better suited to my current daily schedule due to work.
In those days I will add an afternoon cardio session, I will anticipate it to 90' after lunch and 2.5h before leaving home. Thank you very much again.
Type-IIx
Member
Type-IIx
Member
YO! I wanted to let you guys know about an event comin up, just a catch-up/live video chat on Telegram – lmk if you can make it
RoxasShadow
New Member
Hi, just an update - have had difficulties aside of the weekends to follow this protocol due to work (Ie if I wait too long at home before leaving I will be back too late home to do my computer job, and prefer keeping workouts in the morning), so have done pre-bed (2h after dinner) bolus instead, although suboptimal for my goal (currently cutting, soon reversing out). Is there any other way to make the book protocol work for me?
Enjoythements
Member
Most people drink an intra consisting of EAA and carbs, so would the 2.5hrs pre workout shot be rendered ineffective and better aministred other time?
blokje Ham
New Member
Kjk op youtube kanaal en vooral op Kurt havens youtube kanaal. Wordt je meer Wijzer van dan zon boek van een doktor die zelf nooit niks geprobeerd heeft op het gebied van HGH gebruik. Dus puur uit het boekje . Feit en fictie liggen ver uit elkaar.
eery
Member
"Look on youtube channel and especially on Kurt havens youtube channel. Do you become more Wiser than sun book by a doctor who has never tried anything in the field of HGH use. So purely from the book. Fact and fiction are far apart."
how about we stick to the language of the forum we are posting on?
What are you talking about, "some book by a doctor who has never tried anything in the field of HGH use?" what doctor are you referring to?
are you aware that kurt havens himself actually used typeIIx's content on his own paid memeship site? I think the right term might be that he stole it and copied it.
I personally dont think Kurt is all that he portrays to be, theres many things he has said that dont make sense.
lets keep this ontopic though, this thread is about the book.
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AlexDavis43
Member
not sorry for going off-topic but Kurt Havens is another content-creating retard
Follow his stuff if you like content about bodybuilding and gear, but never do anything he says without triple checking it, especially look for opposing opinions bc he cherry picks and probably unwittingly
Type-IIx
Member
Hey, yes. It's in the book – and in this thread too. Nighttime GH is the default, it has many benefits – but some considerations also!
View: https://youtu.be/iADCKZUX4y8?si=4kn100myIeBUbEZ-
RoxasShadow
New Member
Always great to see you popping in here.
Indeed. Would be really interesting even just anecdotaly to understand if, and how much, it is quantifiable the difference between a pre-resistance training use vs sleep time, considering the possible FFA re-esterification due to not being phisically active during that time.
Type-IIx
Member
Is your first language Italian – or German? I'm detecting a clear European translation hurdle.
Bolus quantifies the benefits and costs traded-off with nighttime versus pre-training rhGH, e.g., N retention is greatest (anticatabolic potency) with a nighttime bolus; performance benefits (e.g., O2 consumption) continues through a training bout the following day, etc.
Google, "Bolus HGH book" or look it up on Amazon
Bolus HGH Book: Expert Guide to IGF-1 & HGH Cycles for Bodybuilding | Type-IIx
Master HGH and IGF-1 for bodybuilding with our comprehensive guide. Learn cycle design, protocols and practical use from experts. Elevate your gains now!
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RoxasShadow
New Member
I have it on hand!Is your first language Italian – or German? I'm detecting a clear European translation hurdle.
Bolus quantifies the benefits and costs traded-off with nighttime versus pre-training rhGH, e.g., N retention is greatest (anticatabolic potency) with a nighttime bolus; performance benefits (e.g., O2 consumption) continues through a training bout the following day, etc.
Google, "Bolus HGH book" or look it up on Amazon
Bolus HGH Book: Expert Guide to IGF-1 & HGH Cycles for Bodybuilding | Type-IIx
Master HGH and IGF-1 for bodybuilding with our comprehensive guide. Learn cycle design, protocols and practical use from experts. Elevate your gains now!bolus.ampouletude.com
I think you refer to: "At rest and during low intensity exercise [e.g., LISS/Zone 1 - 2], a high % of energy comes from ß-oxidation. [149]. With increasing exercise intensity [> 70 - 80% VO,max], there is a [gradual] shift from fat to carbohydrate as the preferred energy substrate." -- i was thinking in more practical, realistic terms
to quantify my trade-off as well between pre-workout (wake up and pin at 6:30, workout, eat 9:30) vs pre-bed (2h after dinner [100g carbs, 700kcal + Retatrutide])Also yes, very well detected ahah!
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Type-IIx
Member
First of all, if you're post-surgery, I hope it went well. I've had to deal with the aftermath of what was supposed to be, fairly unobtrusive arthroscopic surgery that turned into a lot of slicing and dicing: think multiple anchors in a small subacromial space coupled with "Crossfit-style" 'kipping' pull-ups, over years [not me]. But I know shoulder surgeries can be a bitch.
I actually had written a whole section in Bolus about [Potentially] Using RhGH for Post-Surgery and Return from Immobilization, and besides it being just pure medical advice that I cannot give, I came to two conclusions about this topic:
1. The human body is so remarkably, brilliantly, awesomely adaptive… that we cannot even begin to fathom the grand design of its recoveryability. Tied up in here somewhere is some recognition of "God," even – or "intelligent design."
We're all, really and truly, about a million times dumber than our body when it comes to even understanding how it heals.
The pure conceit that we might be able to enhance the body's natural healing processes belies what is just, at bottom, our own impulse to feel like we're in the "driver's seat." Injections give us a illusory, fleeting sense of control – and nothing more – actually… a whole lot less since there are recorded cases of people who injected a bunch of GH during recovery ending up with complications from scar tissue (literally collagen deposition in muscle). Please don't make me dig em up; I assuredly could eventually, but don't want to have to sort through fucking Reddit and ProM… but these anecdotes are out there.
2. If these drugs actually worked why wouldn't they be prescribed?
Don't you think your surgical team wants you to get off their docket right away? Do you think they have qualms about…what, diversion? Side effects?
If you need it, they'll Rx you 360 30-mg oxycodone tablets for pain… there are quarter-billion-dollar industries devoted to speeding-up post-surgical outcomes (think E-stim. machines, supercooling tech, etc.) by a couple days (maybe + 2 - 7%)
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Finally, there are a couple small-scale studies that concluded that direct intra-articular injection of Increlex® (mecasermin; recombinant IGF-1) might… maybe… speed up return from immobilization (being "bed-bound"). There's just a stark difference between that versus pinning a few IU GH.
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Alas, my answer to your incomplete sentence is:
As far away as possible from the surgery and as close as possible to your next PRs.
