Blood Pressure

[Ghoul]

I switched from nebivolol to amlodipine/telma. I had horrible side effects from amlodipine. Basically all the side effects. Increase heart rate. Edema ect. I’ve had decent success with nebivolol so I guess I’m going to switch back to that for the time being. I’ve been out of the loop for a minute. Are the India sites still g2g?

Yes.

Cilnidipine is what docs in Asia switch amlodipine users to when they get edema.

Excellent Tolerance to Cilnidipine in Hypertensives with Amlodipine - Induced Edema - PMC

Ankle edema is a common adverse effect of amlodipine, an L-type calcium channel blocker (CCB). Cilnidipine is a newer L/N-type CCB, approved for treatment of essential hypertension. This study was designed to determine whether cilnidipine can ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Double the Amlo dose for equivalent BP reduction Ciln dose. Ie, Amlodine 5 = Cilnipidine 10.

Or get a combo Telm/Ciln tablet, even better.

Give it 2-4 weeks to reach maximum effectiveness. A lot of us love this BP med. It has an interesting effect on stress.

It has some other unique features for a BP med:

-Reduces RHR by a few beats

-Protects kidneys by reducing internal pressure across both sides of the filter units

-Protects against Left Ventricular Hypertrophy

-Lowers lipids (a little)

-Increases insulin sensitivity (a little)

 

[TRENdy07]

Yes.

Cilnidipine is what docs in Asia switch amlodipine users to when they get edema.

View attachment 361676

Excellent Tolerance to Cilnidipine in Hypertensives with Amlodipine - Induced Edema - PMC

Ankle edema is a common adverse effect of amlodipine, an L-type calcium channel blocker (CCB). Cilnidipine is a newer L/N-type CCB, approved for treatment of essential hypertension. This study was designed to determine whether cilnidipine can ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Double the Amlo dose for equivalent BP reduction Ciln dose. Ie, Amlodine 5 = Cilnipidine 10.

Or get a combo Telm/Ciln tablet, even better.

Give it 2-4 weeks to reach maximum effectiveness. A lot of us love this BP med. It has an interesting effect on stress.

It has some other unique features for a BP med:

-Reduces RHR by a few beats

-Protects kidneys by reducing internal pressure across both sides of the filter units

-Protects against Left Ventricular Hypertrophy

-Lowers lipids (a little)

-Increases insulin sensitivity (a little)

Yeah. I think I’ll buy a few months of the combo to try before I buy a year or two. I messed up with the amlo and bought a fuck ton. Luckily it wasn’t a complete waste. A buddy of mine takes it so I gave it to him. I’m assuming pct 24/7 is still a good spot?

 

[Ghoul]

Yeah. I think I’ll buy a few months of the combo to try before I buy a year or two. I messed up with the amlo and bought a fuck ton. Luckily it wasn’t a complete waste. A buddy of mine takes it so I gave it to him. I’m assuming pct 24/7 is still a good spot?

Yes, as always.

If you don’t see the dose combo you need in the list email him along with the qty you need for a quote. I know every combination is available, Telm 40 or 80 with Ciln 5/10/20.

Also available with a diuretic, Chlorthalidone , or beta blocker, Metoprolol, in single tablet triple combos.

 

[TRENdy07]

Yes, as always.

If you don’t see the dose combo you need in the list email him along with the qty you need for a quote. I know every combination is available, Telm 40 or 80 with Ciln 5/10/20.

Also available with a diuretic, Chlorthalidone , or beta blocker, Metoprolol, in single tablet triple combos.

Good to know. Thank you. I just sent a message on telegram

 

[flexi]

Many studies and the American Academy of Family Physicians recommend the addition of a third agent for patients whose blood pressure is not controlled with dual therapy.


Disclaimer: I'm not well versed in this area and am simply practicing to improve my research ability.

 

[Ghoul]

Many studies and the American Academy of Family Physicians recommend the addition of a third agent for patients whose blood pressure is not controlled with dual therapy.

View attachment 361679
Disclaimer: I'm not well versed in this area and am simply practicing to improve my research ability.

Correct. Low dose, multi class BP meds consistently provide better results than high doses of a single med, with fewer side effects. All the way to quad micro dose combinations. Attacking blood pressure from different directions. No single class of BP med relaxes all blood vessels. Imagine your vascular system being made from 5 different sized pipes. No class relaxes more than 3. So with a single med you end up with pressure imbalances, and often, side effects. Amlodipine, despite being one of the most commonly prescribed BP meds, has this problem. Arterioles are relaxed, but the tiny capillaries they feed aren’t. So under pressure, those tiny vessels stretch and water is forced out, causing swollen ankles (edema). Cilnidipine is the same class, a calcium channel blocker, but also relaxes the capillaries. They don’t stretch under pressure. Water doesn’t leak out. No swollen ankles.

In this year’s updates, the slow to move guidelines from the major cardiovascular organizations have finally started recommending that when a med is needed, to start with a low dose combo. Usually ARB / CCB.

Unless you have certain medical conditions (kidney problems or heart failure), the best from those two classes are Telmisartan and Cilnidipine.

Very low chance of ever having any side effects at all, minor and reversible if you do. and a long lost of of extra health benefits from each as a bonus..

 

[flexi]

Imagine your vascular system being made from 5 different sized pipes. No med relaxes more than 3. So with a single med you end up with pressure imbalances, and often, side effects.

Great analogy!
Thanks for the response and the detail you put into it, very edifying.

 

[Ghoul]

Great analogy!
Thanks for the response and the detail you put into it, very edifying.

For clarity it’s a bit of an oversimplification. More accurately it’s different “mechanisms of action”, but the analogy holds. Angiotensin blocking relaxes certain vessels, while calcium channel blocking addresses another way vessels constrict, with some vessels also affected by angiotensin, and others responding to calcium only. Beta blockers slow heart rate, while diuretics reduce the pressure of excess water in tissues squeezing certain vessels, etc.

Anyway, it’s great you’ve taken an interest. Optimizing BP and Lipids are, without doubt, the lowest effort, biggest payoff things you can do for your health. Luckily we finally have the solid data to set target, safe compounds to do it with, and can have confidence about the long term payoff of our efforts. Luckily we don’t have to choose between the previous generation’s pharma poisons, shaky evidence, and uncertainty about whether we’re on the right path.

 

[jeramiahusain]

80mg telmisartan + 5mg amlodipine but still at 150/70 while chilling on the couch. am i cooked?

 

[Ghoul]

80mg telmisartan + 5mg amlodipine but still at 150/70 while chilling on the couch. am i cooked?

Where did it start? How long on the meds?

Are you on cycle?

Age? Whatever else you think is relevant.

Isolated systolic hypertension and some of the potential underlying causes aren’t good. But 150s not a crisis number, and there’s no such thing as uncontrollable hypertension these days.

 

[jeramiahusain]

Where did it start? How long on the meds?

Are you on cycle?

Age? Whatever else you think is relevant.

Isolated systolic hypertension and some of the potential underlying causes aren’t good. But 150s not a crisis number, and there’s no such thing as uncontrollable hypertension these days.

many times through out the day i'll sit for a few mins and i get 150-160 readings. 170 after meals occasionally. i fear i might stoke while training sometimes.

80 telmisartan & 5 almod for 3 weeks now

i ran 60mg telmi for 4 months and my bp didnt respond, came off for a month, no change, now back on again. BP is the exact same is it was during the month of no meds

im 22. 17% bf, clean diet, cardio decent.

not on gear though did run my first cycle 18 months ago, Test E only 350mg/week

few weeks in i bought a BP cuff and noticed it was high, 140s - 150s /65/70. always isolated systolic, never had diastolic problems. stopped the test after 8 weeks as could not bring the BP down and convinced myself i was gonna have a cardiac episode of some sort, got chest pains etc too on cycle, i'm 90% sure these symptoms were anxiety/placebo though the isolated sys hypertension was very real. haven't touched gear since.

though i dont think 8 weeks on 350mg caused this, i think it brought my hypertension to light, perhaps i've had it my whole life, or perhaps since i put on so much size? 63kg/135lbs to 93kg/205lbs in 2 years, 6ft / 183cm

completely unresponsive to all meds, sups, diet/lifestyle tweaks. echo, ecg, bloods, kidney function all good. i gave up on doctors after some time, looking for any insight at this point hence this post

very fascinating yet very worrying at 22. i have an extreme bounding pulse that comes along with it, perhaps the huge pulse pressure. my whole body flinches with each heart beat. my life has been hell since this started, i still manage to train though

 

[Sera]

many times through out the day i'll sit for a few mins and i get 150-160 readings. 170 after meals occasionally. i fear i might stoke while training sometimes.

80 telmisartan & 5 almod for 3 weeks now

i ran 60mg telmi for 4 months and my bp didnt respond, came off for a month, no change, now back on again. BP is the exact same is it was during the month of no meds

im 22. 17% bf, clean diet, cardio decent.

not on gear though did run my first cycle 18 months ago, Test E only 350mg/week

few weeks in i bought a BP cuff and noticed it was high, 140s - 150s /65/70. always isolated systolic, never had diastolic problems. stopped the test after 8 weeks as could not bring the BP down and convinced myself i was gonna have a cardiac episode of some sort, got chest pains etc too on cycle, i'm 90% sure these symptoms were anxiety/placebo though the isolated sys hypertension was very real. haven't touched gear since.

though i dont think 8 weeks on 350mg caused this, i think it brought my hypertension to light, perhaps i've had it my whole life, or perhaps since i put on so much size? 63kg/135lbs to 93kg/205lbs in 2 years, 6ft / 183cm

completely unresponsive to all meds, sups, diet/lifestyle tweaks. echo, ecg, bloods, kidney function all good. i gave up on doctors after some time, looking for any insight at this point hence this post

very fascinating yet very worrying at 22. i have an extreme bounding pulse that comes along with it, perhaps the huge pulse pressure. my whole body flinches with each heart beat. my life has been hell since this started, i still manage to train though

tried nebivolol or any other beta blockers ? And are all your meds from pharma?

 

[Ghoul]

many times through out the day i'll sit for a few mins and i get 150-160 readings. 170 after meals occasionally. i fear i might stoke while training sometimes.

80 telmisartan & 5 almod for 3 weeks now

i ran 60mg telmi for 4 months and my bp didnt respond, came off for a month, no change, now back on again. BP is the exact same is it was during the month of no meds

im 22. 17% bf, clean diet, cardio decent.

not on gear though did run my first cycle 18 months ago, Test E only 350mg/week

few weeks in i bought a BP cuff and noticed it was high, 140s - 150s /65/70. always isolated systolic, never had diastolic problems. stopped the test after 8 weeks as could not bring the BP down and convinced myself i was gonna have a cardiac episode of some sort, got chest pains etc too on cycle, i'm 90% sure these symptoms were anxiety/placebo though the isolated sys hypertension was very real. haven't touched gear since.

though i dont think 8 weeks on 350mg caused this, i think it brought my hypertension to light, perhaps i've had it my whole life, or perhaps since i put on so much size? 63kg/135lbs to 93kg/205lbs in 2 years, 6ft / 183cm

completely unresponsive to all meds, sups, diet/lifestyle tweaks. echo, ecg, bloods, kidney function all good. i gave up on doctors after some time, looking for any insight at this point hence this post

very fascinating yet very worrying at 22. i have an extreme bounding pulse that comes along with it, perhaps the huge pulse pressure. my whole body flinches with each heart beat. my life has been hell since this started, i still manage to train though

There are a few causes for this at your age. Most unrelated to gear.

Please see a doctor and tell him how high it’s gone. That it’s isolated. This is not stress related.

You are at real risk of early organ failure, especially your kidneys. Not overnight, it’s a process, but you need to stop it sooner than later. It’s very important you get this dealt with asap. Most people sleepwalk into kidney failure because high BP isn’t something you can feel. Luckily you know about it. You caught a break. Most would be clueless. But 170 even for short periods does damage. Eventually it won’t be reversible.

The fact it’s isolated systolic makes it much more serious. Make sure your doctor understands that diastolic has always been normal.

See a doctor within a couple of weeks tops.

 

[Ateam2023]

Staying pretty consistent, between office visits, no meds , Trt doses and 4 ius hgh ,

 

[Gonz0]

There are a few causes for this at your age. Most unrelated to gear.

Please see a doctor and tell him how high it’s gone. That it’s isolated. This is not stress related.

You are at real risk of early organ failure, especially your kidneys. Not overnight, it’s a process, but you need to stop it sooner than later. It’s very important you get this dealt with asap. Most people sleepwalk into kidney failure because high BP isn’t something you can feel. Luckily you know about it. You caught a break. Most would be clueless. But 170 even for short periods does damage. Eventually it won’t be reversible.

The fact it’s isolated systolic makes it much more serious. Make sure your doctor understands that diastolic has always been normal.

See a doctor within a couple of weeks tops.

Do you know what some of the more common issues that could be causing this issue ? Also if seeing systolic creep into the 150/60’s but the test is done mid day is that as serious as if you were seeing that number first thing in the morning ? I’ve had isolated systolic hypertension for the last year or so (130-138/50-60 when checked first thing in the morning , mid day can sometimes be 150/65-70) and when I mention it to my dr he just says it’s basically caused by my trt and gear use (he’s super anti trt). The clinidipine has made a huge difference but I’m just wondering if there are some tests I could ask to be done. I did get an EKG done last year when I noticed the issues with my systolic and everything looked good , no LVH.

 

[jeramiahusain]

tried nebivolol or any other beta blockers ? And are all your meds from pharma?

im yet to try any beta blockers yet as im already at 50 resting HR at night and they lower that, i may try low dose propan soon and see how i go

yeah telmi and amlod is pharma, i pay doctors online for prescriptons as my in person doctor who i gave up on only offered me 1.25mg ramipril after seeing my BP halter come back at 150s average. i requested telmisartan from him and he refused like i was requesting something so outragous lmao

 

[jeramiahusain]

There are a few causes for this at your age. Most unrelated to gear.

Please see a doctor and tell him how high it’s gone. That it’s isolated. This is not stress related.

You are at real risk of early organ failure, especially your kidneys. Not overnight, it’s a process, but you need to stop it sooner than later. It’s very important you get this dealt with asap. Most people sleepwalk into kidney failure because high BP isn’t something you can feel. Luckily you know about it. You caught a break. Most would be clueless. But 170 even for short periods does damage. Eventually it won’t be reversible.

The fact it’s isolated systolic makes it much more serious. Make sure your doctor understands that diastolic has always been normal.

See a doctor within a couple of weeks tops.

yeah i certainly don't think 300 test for 8 weeks caused this

why does isolated sys raise more concern?

like i said, i gave up on my doctor some time ago, we did everything he suggested and it all came back fine, pretty much just came to a dead end. best he ever offered meds wise was 1.25mg rampiril. i started the telmi & amlod myself as well as 10+ supps proven to have mild BP lowering effects.

i need to see a specialist and i don't have the money for it right now

 

[TheDieselZ]

Anybody get muscle aches on telismartan? It went away when I dropped the 40mg dose I’ve been taking for most of the year. I get it prescribed.

 

[Eddie.]

My BP currently with 10mg ivabradine and 2,5mg nebivolol. Thankfully after dropping nandrolone bp came down a little, rhr reduced further and heart palpitations vanished. Remind me to never use nandrolone again xD.

Still at 1200mg+ total, 8iu GH and 3mg Reta.

The clinidipine has made a huge difference but I’m just wondering if there are some tests I could ask to be done. I did get an EKG done last year when I noticed the issues with my systolic and everything looked good , no LVH.

Did cilnidipine reduced significantly your systolic without touching diastolic too much? If yes this is very interesting. Sporadically I had some readings of 125/55 and wondered what should I do if systolic raise more since most bp meds reduce both systolic and diastolic. Hopefully I won’t ever need a med but I’d be relieved to know there’s something it can target mostly systolic.

 

[malfeasance]

My BP currently with 10mg ivabradine and 2,5mg nebivolol. Thankfully after dropping nandrolone bp came down a little, rhr reduced further and heart palpitations vanished. Remind me to never use nandrolone again xD.

Still at 1200mg+ total, 8iu GH and 3mg Reta.

View attachment 361900




Did cilnidipine reduced significantly your systolic without touching diastolic too much? If yes this is very interesting. Sporadically I had some readings of 125/55 and wondered what should I do if systolic raise more since most bp meds reduce both systolic and diastolic. Hopefully I won’t ever need a med but I’d be relieved to know there’s something it can target mostly systolic.

Amazing.

How did you go about choosing ivabradine and nebivolol?