Best Cycle For Athletics?

[Millard]

Not sure how accurate these are but here are some of Charlie Francis' accounts
https://vault.si.com/vault/1989/03/13/a-dirty-coach-comes-clean

THE BEN JOHNSON STEROID INQUIRY : Francis Details Johnson's Drug Use in 1987-88

JOHNSON ADMITS STEROID USE

Well, I think Francis, Johnson and his doctor (Jamie Astaphan) really thought he was taking Furazabol.

But the "Furazabol" provided by Dr. Astaphan was obtained from an East German drug dealer in the form of 48 UNLABELED 30-milliliter vials of a white milky substance.

Dr. Astaphan thought he purchased furazobol. But the Dubin Commission tested some of these vials provided by one of Francis' other athletes. It was stanozolol.



The excerpt is from the Dubin Commission report. It's the primary source for pretty much everything news story you read about the Ben Johnson scandal including the articles you linked to.

There's a lot of good info such as the stack Johnson was using prior to the Seoul Olympics (furazabol -but really probably stanozolol, growth hormone, and injectable inosine).

I'll post more excerpts when I have time.

 

[Millard]

I'm interested in this. For cardio, do you target certain months, or a steady build up to a target race? How much weight, if it all, are you dropping? Are you lifting fewer days per week?

And once you peak, and switch back to strength/size how far do you cut back on cardio?

**I had largely abandoned endurance running to focus on the gym, but given the circumstances I've been running alot. My pace is back into the sub 7-8's and I've been debating dropping weight. I'm holding my weight at 205, from a high of 215. I know the running would be easier if I dropped another 10. I'm not looking to do that now, just looking to gain insight from you and others.

I haven't targeted a race yet. Right now, I'm happy to train and try keep up with some of the local guys for weekend rides. I make my switch during their off-season and ramp up as they get in condition for the season. Then I make a graceful exit and transition to focus of the weights before they start pulling too far ahead of me

I've generally dropped 10lbs or so for cycling season. I've dropped down to around 205 in previous years. It has always been difficult to get this low.

This past fall/winter, I made a concerted effort to drop even more weight for the sake of performance and successfully touched 200. And that last 5 lbs made a dramatic difference in terms of group rides, flat/tempo KOMs, and even climbing to some degree. So, yeah, I definitely think you would see some performance benefit from dropping more weight.

I had to cut way back on lifting to drop that much weight limiting my workouts to only 2-3 hours per week. I ride between 200-300 miles/week for my cycling "season". I cut back to 125 miles/week max during my bodybuilding "season". The time I would spent of the bike is now spent in the gym and then some.

The logical thing would be to choose one or the other and focus on it. But I can't

Some days I dream of how much faster I could ride at 195 or 190.

But today I'm dreaming of how much a can lift at 220 or 225!

 

[slyfox115]

@Millard Baker
So true on this type of training being “logical”. It’s just fun to move the needle up on so many other pursuits of athleticism compared to a narrower skill set. Have you looked at any of Alex Viada’s material? His two article series in “How to Run and Be Strong” is what sort of lead me down the path of endurance not necessarily meaning having a triathlete’s body. Later he wrote a book called The Hybrid Athlete that put it all together. Super smart dude and at one point had a 600+ squat with something like a 4:30 mile at a 220-225ish body weight . I had always toyed with the idea but never went through with it because I didn’t want to look like a distance runner but he destroyed that paradigm for me.

I’m curious....what sort of calories do you have to eat daily to maintain such a high activity level with that heavier muscled body weight? Mine ranges from 5500 to about 6000 just to maintain 225-230lb. I haven’t found many people who pursue the same goals so I wanted to pick your brain.

 

[Theworm]

Millard has the most amazing finds on steroid use, found cycles from the 70s, Ben Johnson’s use etc! Thanks man!!

 

[notdeadYET]

@Millard Baker
So true on this type of training being “logical”. It’s just fun to move the needle up on so many other pursuits of athleticism compared to a narrower skill set. Have you looked at any of Alex Viada’s material? His two article series in “How to Run and Be Strong” is what sort of lead me down the path of endurance not necessarily meaning having a triathlete’s body. Later he wrote a book called The Hybrid Athlete that put it all together. Super smart dude and at one point had a 600+ squat with something like a 4:30 mile at a 220-225ish body weight . I had always toyed with the idea but never went through with it because I didn’t want to look like a distance runner but he destroyed that paradigm for me.

I’m curious....what sort of calories do you have to eat daily to maintain such a high activity level with that heavier muscled body weight? Mine ranges from 5500 to about 6000 just to maintain 225-230lb. I haven’t found many people who pursue the same goals so I wanted to pick your brain.

I always heard/read that Viada was full of it. Never backed up any of his claims. Still kudos to anyone attempting to do both.

 

[OldSmice]

Oh. If you’re looking to build aerobic adaptations, which largely means increases in mitochondrial density and efficiency, stay away from Metformin and Berberine. Both have been shown to be toxic to mitochondria. I mistakenly thought that berberine was a “safer” form but then I started digging and nope... they both have similar effects.

Check out Telmisaetan though.

 

[yannick67]

Following keenly. Be careful with Telmisartan or any PPAR modulator. Ive found in elite trained endurance athletes they increase the mitochondrial efficiency at the demise of the anaerobic system. Its great for sub maximal efforts (80% MAAP/VO2 max) but anything over I've found it to be negative to performance.

I want to play around with ITPP soon, and SR9009 if i can find a way to ingest it that won't destroy the bioavailability.

The old school 2000s stack of 150mg T, 3iu GH/day, 5iu slin after hard workouts and 4-6000iu epo (Zeta is hard to detect still) will be hard to beat.

Tramadol abuse is rife in sport and will increase endurance capacity by up to 5%. I am certain there are other mechanisms behind this increase other than the pain killing effect.

Cortisone is abused by endurance athletes and will strip muscle and fat away while increasing strength and power. 40mg triamcinolone will literally drop 1-2kg a week of an athlete already with a BMI below 19.

Anyone that thinks endurance sport at pro level is healthy is wrong, it will take years off your life.

 

[OldSmice]

Following keenly. Be careful with Telmisartan or any PPAR modulator. Ive found in elite trained endurance athletes they increase the mitochondrial efficiency at the demise of the anaerobic system. Its great for sub maximal efforts (80% MAAP/VO2 max) but anything over I've found it to be negative to performance.

I’m doing a personal experiment right now with it. I usually cap out around 200W as my aerobic limit (breathing through nose, can still talk just not easily). I’m giving it a good 3 months to see if I can break through this plateau.

I quit racing as soon as I started TRT years ago. Don’t really care about anaerobic power.... I say this now, let’s see where I am in a couple months.

 

[cmK9s33]

I want to play around with ITPP soon, and SR9009 if i can find a way to ingest it that won't destroy the bioavailability.

2 very interesting compounds for sure. I’ve never read of a way to get any tangible amount of SR beyond injecting it. If you find a way please point us in that direction.

What dose and method of administration would you suggest in ITPP? I’ve mostly seen just the powder but I’ve seen some injectable solutions too.

The old school 2000s stack of 150mg T, 3iu GH/day, 5iu slin after hard workouts and 4-6000iu epo (Zeta is hard to detect still) will be hard to beat.

I wasn’t aware that was a “standard” endurance athlete stack but I can’t definitely see it working.

Tramadol abuse is rife in sport and will increase endurance capacity by up to 5%. I am certain there are other mechanisms behind this increase other than the pain killing effect.

Tramadol? Really? How does it increase endurance and what dose? I thought it was a sleep/pain medication.

Cortisone is abused by endurance athletes and will strip muscle and fat away while increasing strength and power. 40mg triamcinolone will literally drop 1-2kg a week of an athlete already with a BMI below 19.

I definitely didn’t know it increased power output. By what mechanism does it do that?

 

[one5onecc]

How about cardarine? I’ve read people saying they felt like they could go forever on 10-20mg.

But everyone seems scared with the cancer rat studies.

 

[OldSmice]

How about cardarine? I’ve read people saying they felt like they could go forever on 10-20mg.

But everyone seems scared with the cancer rat studies.

The cancer connection scared me away. Telmisartan has a similar method of action, just “less” from what I could find.

 

[slyfox115]

I always heard/read that Viada was full of it. Never backed up any of his claims. Still kudos to anyone attempting to do both.

I've heard that as well. I've watched some of his training videos and those seem legit but his run times were only posted from his Garmin. Some say they wanted the run video taped in a meet, yadda yadda.

I am like you though, even if his claims are remotely close to what is claimed it's proof that these two completely opposite sides of training can be trained concurrently and built upon.

Another guy I saw complete was the 6/6/6 challenge (600 squat, 600 dead, 6:00 mile) was Tony Cowden. These goals are ridiculous but possible so it's nice to see some are pursuing that.

 

[yannick67]

2 very interesting compounds for sure. I’ve never read of a way to get any tangible amount of SR beyond injecting it. If you find a way please point us in that direction.

What dose and method of administration would you suggest in ITPP? I’ve mostly seen just the powder but I’ve seen some injectable solutions too.

I wasn’t aware that was a “standard” endurance athlete stack but I can’t definitely see it working.

Tramadol? Really? How does it increase endurance and what dose? I thought it was a sleep/pain medication.

I definitely didn’t know it increased power output. By what mechanism does it do that?

Ive also read about takin SR transdermal with DMSO but this looks risky to me. I have powdered ITPP and was going to try sublingual. Injection would be ideal but ive struggled to find anywhere that sells it.

It was standard some years ago. Things at the top have moved on considerably with more advanced testing and the introduction of the bio passport.

Tramadol kills pain. At the end of a multi hour event it will keep you feeling fresh. Its a dangerous path as it created a huge debt. Its mixed with caffeine, ventolin and nicotine to mask the drowsiness. Low grade speedball. Like I say, very dangerous and unhealthy. I think i remember reading that the International Cycling federation has tried to ban it in competition.

The cortisone kills all inflammation. During a long race inflammation builds massively. It also increases blood sugar and frees fat, protein and sugar to be burned for fuel. This is also how it strips weight. It will burn everything however, including bone and connective tissue hence the link between cortisone and osteoporosis.

I would love to see a sub forum for endurance freaks here, i find the PED side of all sport fascinating. Ive seen a lot in my time....

 

[cmK9s33]

Ive also read about takin SR transdermal with DMSO but this looks risky to me. I have powdered ITPP and was going to try sublingual. Injection would be ideal but ive struggled to find anywhere that sells it.

Vet/race horse sites are essentially the only times I've seen an injectable ITPP.

Tramadol kills pain. At the end of a multi hour event it will keep you feeling fresh. Its a dangerous path as it created a huge debt. Its mixed with caffeine, ventolin and nicotine to mask the drowsiness. Low grade speedball. Like I say, very dangerous and unhealthy. I think i remember reading that the International Cycling federation has tried to ban it in competition.

Good grief. It makes sense when explained but I honestly had never read about that concoction before.

 

[Millard]

Have you looked at any of Alex Viada’s material

No. I'm not familiar. I will take a look.

Another guy I saw complete was the 6/6/6 challenge (600 squat, 600 dead, 6:00 mile) was Tony Cowden. These goals are ridiculous but possible so it's nice to see some are pursuing that.

I am glad it's a thing no matter how incompatible the pursuits may be.

 

[Millard]

Millard has the most amazing finds on steroid use, found cycles from the 70s, Ben Johnson’s use etc! Thanks man!!

You're welcome. I've been reading and researching this stuff for a long time.

 

[Millard]

I’m curious....what sort of calories do you have to eat daily to maintain such a high activity level with that heavier muscled body weight? Mine ranges from 5500 to about 6000 just to maintain 225-230lb. I haven’t found many people who pursue the same goals so I wanted to pick your brain.

It's about the same for me. I average around 5000 year round.

Although I may temporarily drop the kcals below 5000 so I don't gain weight too fast when I switch to primarily bodybuilding from cycling. I always think it's funny that I am reducing calories a lot and still gaining weight.

 

[one5onecc]

Any consensus on any orals to run alongside a low 150mg dose of test?

That article posted mentioned that a female sprinter was taking 5mg dbol per day, 3 weeks on 3 weeks off.

I have some 50mg anavar tabs on hand, would a low dose of 25mg per day help me train harder, prevent injuries, recover faster, not shed needed muscle etc?

So far I am recovering well by bumping my mileage up by 5miles every 3- 4weeks. Started at 5 miles now at 10. I don't get sore at all except in my calves which is the only thing that really stops me from running everyday.

My endurance is much better than when I started, but I am also doing 45-60 mins of home workouts everyday + another 5 miles of walking everyday. Which leaves my legs feeling kind of beat at some points during the day.

 

[slyfox115]

Any consensus on any orals to run alongside a low 150mg dose of test?

That article posted mentioned that a female sprinter was taking 5mg dbol per day, 3 weeks on 3 weeks off.

I have some 50mg anavar tabs on hand, would a low dose of 25mg per day help me train harder, prevent injuries, recover faster, not shed needed muscle etc?

So far I am recovering well by bumping my mileage up by 5miles every 3- 4weeks. Started at 5 miles now at 10. I don't get sore at all except in my calves which is the only thing that really stops me from running everyday.

My endurance is much better than when I started, but I am also doing 45-60 mins of home workouts everyday + another 5 miles of walking everyday. Which leaves my legs feeling kind of beat at some points during the day.

You would have the testosterone suppression caused by the anavar covered with the 150mg of testosterone so I'd say that's a good idea. Anavar doesn't really give you the bloat some of the other orals do so I would think your plan could only help you with the goals you stated above.

If it were me, I'd also go with a lower dose GH (I used 2iu). Being a little heavier muscled and running (no matter how efficient your form) really can hammer your joints so I've really noticed GH help recovery in that aspect. If you have muscle recover/retention along with joint recovery I'd say that would be the best possible scenario to maximize your recovery.

 

[OldSmice]

Look out for calf pumps on anavar if you’re running. Honest to god my triceps have gotten a pump while riding my road bike while on var. Nothing else yet though, but I’ve used pretty mild doses so far (10-20mg a day) trying to sus-out any effects. So far nothing but only a week in.