Are calories king, over macros

[VaDImadi]

Which cycle would gain the most muscle in this situation

12 weeks test e cycle

2500 calorie maintenance

Eats 2500 Cal's per day
40/40/20 split PCF , strict bodybuilding focused diet

..........


12 week test E cycle

2500 calorie maintenance still

Eats 3200 calories

Not following any kind of diet, takeaway shop fried chicken, chips, pizzas, chocolate etc but gets a solid amount of protein per day


I have a sneaky suspicion it might be the second 12 weeks who gains more muscle because he's providing more building blocks but unsure

 

[MisterSuperGod]

You wouldn't gain shit eating at maintenance, ask me how i know.

Muscle growth requires more calories. The cleaner the better, but getting a little sloppy every now and then isn't going to kill anyone.

 

[Sworder]

You wouldn't gain shit eating at maintenance, ask me how i know.

How do you know?

 

[Eman]

Calories... Although, this question is like asking which is more important on a car: wheels or fuel. Kind of need to consider both.

 

[Sworder]

Although, this question is like asking which is more important on a car: wheels or fuel. Kind of need to consider both.

Why would you weigh those two against each other? Wheels as in flashy wheels or as in fuel efficient wheels? For a truck I assume?

 

[CrispyRockClimber]

Why would you weigh those two against each other? Wheels as in flashy wheels or as in fuel efficient wheels? For a truck I assume?

I take it your not a car guy. Stay in your lane bro

 

[jJjburton]

Which cycle would gain the most muscle in this situation

12 weeks test e cycle

2500 calorie maintenance

Eats 2500 Cal's per day
40/40/20 split PCF , strict bodybuilding focused diet

..........


12 week test E cycle

2500 calorie maintenance still

Eats 3200 calories

Not following any kind of diet, takeaway shop fried chicken, chips, pizzas, chocolate etc but gets a solid amount of protein per day


I have a sneaky suspicion it might be the second 12 weeks who gains more muscle because he's providing more building blocks but unsure

actually to gain more actualy muscle. Not mass, I would say you do need enough protein.

If the guy in the second part is not getting enough protein, which I consider .8 grams of protein per lb. Then the first would actually build more muscle. Thats is important.

The second guy would build more mass. But that is not muscle.


I think that for muscle building that is all you “need”. .8 grams of protein per lb.

but to use a steroid cycle and want to bulk, you “would” want more, 1.5 g of protein per lb. But most likely dont “need” the extra. .7 grams per lb.

But bulking and strictly gaining muscle is different.

but you need carbs and fats too.

 

[Sworder]

I take it your not a car guy. Stay in your lane bro

HAHA is that obvious?! Tell me why? I am curious!

 

[koolio]

Back in the 80s there were twin bodybuilders known as the barbarian brothers....once when asked while juicing if it was okay to eat a cheeseburger and fries they said no, .you should eat 3 cheeseburgers and 3 fries if you want gain muscle!...they were hilarious.......

 

[CrispyRockClimber]

HAHA is that obvious?! Tell me why? I am curious!

You wouldn’t understand.

 

[Demondosage]

Calories are king. Calories are energy

 

[Sworder]

You wouldn’t understand.

I get it now, but yeah at first no clue. I don't use my car for anything besides commuting, I keep it clean at all times and put tinted windows but besides that not really interested in anything to increase performance. ;D

I do need new tires though, 225/50/17 on a 2016 Ford Fusion, any recommendations for a smooth ride?

 

[Demondosage]

I was talking to a world class powerlifter one day and asked him what his diet looked like when he was his strongest. He said it was all about calories, bowl of ice cream every night, you name it. That confirmed my suspicions about anytime I was my biggest and strongest, I was eating and eating more...and it was about 30% dirty.

I do not buy this theory about super nutrition or simply "more protein" because you could eat all the tuna and drink all the shakes you wanted and if you ain't above maintenance you'll get smaller and lose muscle mass. It's evident with competitive bodybuilders who are smaller and shriveled up near a show (relatively speaking of course) and what do they all do? Same shit, load more and more protein while cutting more and more carbs and fats. It doesn't help, they still lose muscle mass!

Another key ingredient to anabolism that many neglect is the insulin response to carb intake and how it's the most anabolic hormone there probably is. A lot of shit goes on with your own body chemistry concerning growth besides just pounding protein. My .02 anyways

 

[TheH0517]

I was talking to a world class powerlifter one day and asked him what his diet looked like when he was his strongest. He said it was all about calories, bowl of ice cream every night, you name it. That confirmed my suspicions about anytime I was my biggest and strongest, I was eating and eating more...and it was about 30% dirty.

I do not buy this theory about super nutrition or simply "more protein" because you could eat all the tuna and drink all the shakes you wanted and if you ain't above maintenance you'll get smaller and lose muscle mass. It's evident with competitive bodybuilders who are smaller and shriveled up near a show (relatively speaking of course) and what do they all do? Same shit, load more and more protein while cutting more and more carbs and fats. It doesn't help, they still lose muscle mass!

Another key ingredient to anabolism that many neglect is the insulin response to carb intake and how it's the most anabolic hormone there probably is. A lot of shit goes on with your own body chemistry concerning growth besides just pounding protein. My .02 anyways

I agree with a lot of this, but there definitely has to be an adequate amount of amino acids in order to at least maintain muscle.

Carbs and fat are sparing towards the body’s need to break down amino acids, but there’s gotta be threshold of the minimum amount to maintain muscle no matter how many brownies you eat.

But all of this also depends on goals. Is this person trying to break a world record in powerlifting? Are they trying to build muscle while staying lean? Or building muscle and full on bulking? There’s gonna be different thresholds for each goal. Higher carbs would need less protein, leanness has to watch the upper threshold of carbs without overspilling. And as you mentioned, even while getting stage ready, keeping carbs and fats in will spare break down of amino acids and it could be counter-productive to completely remove them.

In regards to the original question, the answer depends on the goals surrounding the primary goal of building muscle. If you don’t give a f*** about getting fat, calories are most important. But even still, there has to be enough protein to build muscle and not just spare it.

 

[Sworder]

there definitely has to be an adequate amount of amino acids in order to at least maintain muscle.

I think you are incorrect.
If you have already built the muscle tissue, you don't need any amino acids to maintain it.

If it was like that with fat, would you need to eat fat to maintain bodyfat? Doesn't make sense huh?

 

[Demondosage]

I agree with a lot of this, but there definitely has to be an adequate amount of amino acids in order to at least maintain muscle.

Carbs and fat are sparing towards the body’s need to break down amino acids, but there’s gotta be threshold of the minimum amount to maintain muscle no matter how many brownies you eat.

But all of this also depends on goals. Is this person trying to break a world record in powerlifting? Are they trying to build muscle while staying lean? Or building muscle and full on bulking? There’s gonna be different thresholds for each goal. Higher carbs would need less protein, leanness has to watch the upper threshold of carbs without overspilling. And as you mentioned, even while getting stage ready, keeping carbs and fats in will spare break down of amino acids and it could be counter-productive to completely remove them.

In regards to the original question, the answer depends on the goals surrounding the primary goal of building muscle. If you don’t give a f*** about getting fat, calories are most important. But even still, there has to be enough protein to build muscle and not just spare it.

I think the body changes and we develop a new homeostasis in due time. I know for myself the level of fat i had to consume to grow used to be much more. Maybe all nutrients combined had to be more actually. In terms of actual lean tissue, that's hard to say because if you took some of these guys and stripped the fat off then I think you would still have a larger individual than most. Truth be told, I think carbs are highly underrated when it comes to growing muscle. I believe if you took 2 guys and gave one of them 3x the carb to protein ratio and gave the other 3x the protein to carb ratio, the one who consumed carbs would be more muscular, and I'm talking lean tissue here.

 

[TheH0517]

I think you are incorrect.
If you have already built the muscle tissue, you don't need any amino acids to maintain it.

If it was like that with fat, would you need to eat fat to maintain bodyfat? Doesn't make sense huh?

So the body contains a metabolic pathway to convert glucose and fatty acids into amino acids? All the body needs to store macronutrients as fat is an abundance of macronutrients. You can eat nothing but 5,000 calories of protein, and it’ll convert to glycogen which will be stored in fat cells given you’re in a surplus. As far as I know, there’s no pathway to store glycogen and fatty acids as muscle tissue. As I said, you could possibly maintain muscle on a very low protein diet if you knew exactly how much the carbs and fats were sparing the breakdown of amino acids. But this isn’t what the OP asked. He asked about BUILDING muscle, not maintaining it.

 

[TheH0517]

I think the body changes and we develop a new homeostasis in due time. I know for myself the level of fat i had to consume to grow used to be much more. Maybe all nutrients combined had to be more actually. In terms of actual lean tissue, that's hard to say because if you took some of these guys and stripped the fat off then I think you would still have a larger individual than most. Truth be told, I think carbs are highly underrated when it comes to growing muscle. I believe if you took 2 guys and gave one of them 3x the carb to protein ratio and gave the other 3x the protein to carb ratio, the one who consumed carbs would be more muscular, and I'm talking lean tissue here.

I definitely agree. But the person who had 3x the carbs would probably also have more gain overall, including lean tissue AND fat. So I guess it would depend on the goals of preserving leanness that would determine how high you take carbs.

 

[Sworder]

As I said, you could possibly maintain muscle on a very low protein diet if you knew exactly how much the carbs and fats were sparing the breakdown of amino acids.

Now you are twisting and turning.

Breakdown of amino acids from muscle tissue? Is that what you are talking about?

What do you think controls the breakdown of muscle tissue to energy?

 

[TheH0517]

Now you are twisting and turning.

Breakdown of amino acids from muscle tissue? Is that what you are talking about?

What do you think controls the breakdown of muscle tissue to energy?

What I was getting at from the beginning is that there has to be some sort of minimum of protein intake the body needs to maintain, or in this case build, muscle. And this minimum changes based on the amount of fats and carbs you eat that will be used for other internal processes in order for the body to use that protein for muscle synthesis. Yes, you could eat bullshit fast food and still gain muscle. No doubt. As long as there’s cheeseburgers in the mix. The original question was very generic as far as other goals. All we know is he wants to know about building muscle. So I was kind of taking that one step further and explaining different possibilities of outcomes based on different goals.

In simple terms, eating “dirty” can still produce the same, and possibly more, muscle tissue given there’s at least the bare minimum of protein needed with an adequate amount of carbs and fats to fuel other bodily functions. Macros mainly come into play when trying to preserve a certain physique. There’s also the question of how good you want to feel and how much you care about staying healthy. Obviously fast food can turn both to shit in a lot of cases, but we won’t go into that.