Arafat

[vampirique]

Sharon and Bush said he was the obstacle to peace, now that he's gone, do you see peace coming or chaos?

Personnally I'm afraid the Hamas and others will completely fill the void(almost already done in the Gaza strip), and that makes me wonder if Sharon really "helped God" like he once said he would when asked about the faith of arafat.

 

[Kayz]

IMO, peace in the middle east is an oxymoron.

They have been fighting for thousands of years over religion and will fight for thousands more long after I'm gone.

I think it is now in their DNA to hate one another.

 

[Mark Kerr]

IMO, peace in the middle east is an oxymoron.

They have been fighting for thousands of years over religion and will fight for thousands more long after I'm gone.

I think it is now in their DNA to hate one another.

That about sums it up. This war is so far beyond Bush, Sharon or Arafat that it wont be solved in several lifetimes.

Remember, you have 2 religions that believe they were given a mandate by God (and told to use force if necessary) to live on the same land. That is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Sensational]

That about sums it up. This war is so far beyond Bush, Sharon or Arafat that it wont be solved in several lifetimes.

Remember, you have 2 religions that believe they were given a mandate by God (and told to use force if necessary) to live on the same land. That is a recipe for disaster.

Yes, and religion is the greatest motivator. That's a scary thought~Sensational

 

[Kayz]

Well,, Arafat had his chance in 1998 (i think that was the year), when Israel offered Palestine all of Gaza, part of Jerusalem, and about 97% of the West Bank......Arafat refused this and wanted to play hardball.

I don't see Israel putting that offer back on the table any time soon. And if they do, it will be very hard for a new Palestinian leader to accept that deal when the "great Arafat" rejeced it. And the Palestinians sure as hell are not going to get a better deal.

Might as well as put a quarter in the merry go round, sit back and enjoy.

 

[jbiggs]

Well,, Arafat had his chance in 1998 (i think that was the year), when Israel offered Palestine all of Gaza, part of Jerusalem, and about 97% of the West Bank......Arafat refused this and wanted to play hardball.

I don't see Israel putting that offer back on the table any time soon. And if they do, it will be very hard for a new Palestinian leader to accept that deal when the "great Arafat" rejeced it. And the Palestinians sure as hell are not going to get a better deal.

Might as well as put a quarter in the merry go round, sit back and enjoy.

Exactly, the PLO was formed even before their was "occupied" territory. When they first started their activities, they were part of Jordan. It's all about hate.

 

[Kayz]

The reason that there will probably never be Peace in the Middle East in our lifetime is because of radical Islam and terrorist groups such as Hezbollah, Hamas, and Al Qaida.

The one thing that all of these groups have in common is a hatred for Israel. They use Israel to justify all of their activities.

If Israel and Palestine reach a peace agreement, it takes all the wind out of the terrorists sails. They no longer have a "cause" to rally around.

This is why the war on terror and Iraq is so damn important. These guys are never going to stop until Israel and the US are destroyed!!! They always say they attack the west because we "are on their land", but that is not the reason. They hate us because we back Israel, plain and simple.

The destruction of Israel is the common goal that unites these groups. And like I said, a free and democratic Palestinian state greatly diminishes the current argument being used to justify terrorism around the world.

 

[Kayz]

Also, there is plenty of land in Jordan, Syria, and Egypt to establish a separate state for the Palestinians. However, you don't see these other countries extending a welcome hand to the Palestinians do you??? Because they don't want the Palestinians in their country because then they have no reason to hate Israel.

If they have no reason to hate Israel, they will have a very difficult time justifying homicide bombings and car bombs in Israel and on US troops. Jordan, Syria, and Egypt are all involved in terrorism and quietly support it behind the scene. They don't want a separate Palestinian state.

And the PLO just promoted Mahmud Abbas to chairman. Fuck, HE is the one who convinced Arafat to reject Barak's and Clintons peace deal in the late 1990's. Arafat wasn't calling the shots within the PLO.

 

[Sensational]

The reason that there will probably never be Peace in the Middle East in our lifetime is because of radical Islam and terrorist groups such as Hezbollah, Hamas, and Al Qaida.

The one thing that all of these groups have in common is a hatred for Israel. They use Israel to justify all of their activities.

If Israel and Palestine reach a peace agreement, it takes all the wind out of the terrorists sails. They no longer have a "cause" to rally around.

This is why the war on terror and Iraq is so damn important. These guys are never going to stop until Israel and the US are destroyed!!! They always say they attack the west because we "are on their land", but that is not the reason. They hate us because we back Israel, plain and simple.

The destruction of Israel is the common goal that unites these groups. And like I said, a free and democratic Palestinian state greatly diminishes the current argument being used to justify terrorism around the world.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I heard that the extremist muslim groups think that if they are martyrs that they will be surrounded by ten virgins in heaven. Quite an inspirational story~Sensational

 

[Kayz]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I heard that the extremist muslim groups think that if they are martyrs that they will be surrounded by ten virgins in heaven. Quite an inspirational story~Sensational

Actually, I believe they get 72 virgins in heaven.

Shit, after the US Marines get done with these fucks, Allah is going to have to limit it to "1 virgin per 3 martyrs".

 

[Mark Kerr]

Actually, I believe they get 72 virgins in heaven.

Actually, the Qu'ran never specifies an exact amount

 

[oldtimer]

Also, there is plenty of land in Jordan, Syria, and Egypt to establish a separate state for the Palestinians. However, you don't see these other countries extending a welcome hand to the Palestinians do you??? Because they don't want the Palestinians in their country because then they have no reason to hate Israel.

If they have no reason to hate Israel, they will have a very difficult time justifying homicide bombings and car bombs in Israel and on US troops. Jordan, Syria, and Egypt are all involved in terrorism and quietly support it behind the scene. They don't want a separate Palestinian state.

And the PLO just promoted Mahmud Abbas to chairman. Fuck, HE is the one who convinced Arafat to reject Barak's and Clintons peace deal in the late 1990's. Arafat wasn't calling the shots within the PLO.

And where exactly did you get that from Kayz, just speculations i presume?

Just for the record, 75% of the Jordanian population is originally Palestinian. We have them all over the Arab countries, heck; my own direct boss, my country manager, and about 30% of our office here in Riyadh are Palestinian.

It's not just about land for the Palestinian, they denied the right that refugees come back to their country, we're speaking millions here. And for the 97% of land that was offered, i talked to a friend of mine (he said this, I haven't seen evidence myself), and said it was not true, they gave 97% of the land they named Palestine, not the real Palestinian land.

Saying they should just leave their land and go live somewhere else is absurd - what would you say if your land was occupied by, for example, French, and they told you to move to Canada, would you accept?

Since the beginning of Intefada, almost 1000 Israelis died, and around 4000 Palestinians died (and quit tying Jews with Israel and Muslims with being Arab, there are Christian/Jewish Arabs, and there are Christian/Muslim Israelis). There are casualties on both sided, and yes, there are many innocent Palestinians dying, not just innocent Israelis.

-OT

 

[oldtimer]

Actually, I believe they get 72 virgins in heaven.

Shit, after the US Marines get done with these fucks, Allah is going to have to limit it to "1 virgin per 3 martyrs".

Anyone thinking it's done for religion is either naive or ignorant. Some of the people committing the bombings are not even Muslims, and the Muslim clerks have clearly said that this act is considered suicide, thus, might result in eternal stay in hell.

-OT

 

[oldtimer]

That about sums it up. This war is so far beyond Bush, Sharon or Arafat that it wont be solved in several lifetimes.

Remember, you have 2 religions that believe they were given a mandate by God (and told to use force if necessary) to live on the same land. That is a recipe for disaster.

Yup, you're the one who nailed it, the simple peoblem is that both think they own that piece of land, any resolution offered will simply be killed by the people.

Have you people forgot Yitzhak Rabin, and the reason for his assasination several years ago?, he was Israel's prime minister, and he was assasinated by AN ISRAELI CITIZEN, that man is the only man IMO who really wanted peace between Israel and Palestine, and he was killed because of his intentions.

-OT

 

[Kayz]

Yup, you're the one who nailed it, the simple peoblem is that both think they own that piece of land, any resolution offered will simply be killed by the people.

Have you people forgot Yitzhak Rabin, and the reason for his assasination several years ago?, he was Israel's prime minister, and he was assasinated by AN ISRAELI CITIZEN, that man is the only man IMO who really wanted peace between Israel and Palestine, and he was killed because of his intentions.

-OT

Here you agree that it is over a piece of land. But this piece of land is being fought over because of each groups religious beliefs.

So in one breath you call me naive and ignorant because I alleged that this has a lot to do with religion; and in another breath, you concur with Mark that it is "2 religions that believe they were given a mandate by God (and told to use force if necessary) to live on the same land."

Which is it???

 

[Kayz]

Saying they should just leave their land and go live somewhere else is absurd - what would you say if your land was occupied by, for example, French, and they told you to move to Canada, would you accept?



-OT

Absolutely NOT, but I would not strap a bomb to my chest and blow up a Canadian bus in hopes of killing innocent civilians.

I think you are missing my entire point here.

I agree with you that neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis have trully had a leader who TRULLY desires peace in a very long time.

Anger breeds hate, and hate breeds violence. IMO, from what I have seen on the news and read in books and various articles, neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians have done what is necessary to ensure peace in this region.

But, you cannot deny the fact that many of these Islamic radicals (whom the majority are in fact muslim) cite "Americas support of Israel" as their justification for killing Americans. Hell, we have heard Bin Laden say this himself!!!

The individual in the CIA whom just retired that was the head of the group in charge of tracking Bin Laden has recently come out and said that Bin Ladens long term goal is to eradicate Israel from the Earth.....that is not a secret.

 

[oldtimer]

Here you agree that it is over a piece of land. But this piece of land is being fought over because of each groups religious beliefs.

So in one breath you call me naive and ignorant because I alleged that this has a lot to do with religion; and in another breath, you concur with Mark that it is "2 religions that believe they were given a mandate by God (and told to use force if necessary) to live on the same land."

Which is it???

I apologize if I offended you in anyway Kayz, it was certainly not my intention.

I agreed with Mark that they both think they own that piece of land. Look at all the terrorist acts that were done in the name of Islam, name one of them that was done purely out of religion, all the ones that I remember had political agendas behind them.

In Palestine, both sides are fighting each other, and when it's time of war, it gets very blurry. I too am against suicide bombings, but who are we to judge?, we're not there, and we don't know what it's like to be there.

9/11, Osama Bin Laden has been wanted in Saudi Arabia for more than 10 years, he has been doing bombing in Saudi Arabia way before 9/11, it's simple, he wanted to fight Saddam, the Saudi government knew he would overthrow the government if he succeeded, they said no, he swore he'll overthrow the government. He was a US ally, and he declared war against the US/Saudi Arabia after the gulf war.

Don't get me wrong, I too think that there are many fanatics (they call themselves Muslims but I don't know if God will ever accept their religion), it serves their cause so they'll use it. There are war verses in every major religion (at least the major three). Read the bible, it contains war verses too, why aren't there Christians using them do kill people?, because they don't have a political agenda, it's really that simple.


-OT

 

[oldtimer]

Absolutely NOT, but I would not strap a bomb to my chest and blow up a Canadian bus in hopes of killing innocent civilians.

I think you are missing my entire point here.

I agree with you that neither the Palestinians nor the Israelis have trully had a leader who TRULLY desires peace in a very long time.

Anger breeds hate, and hate breeds violence. IMO, from what I have seen on the news and read in books and various articles, neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians have done what is necessary to ensure peace in this region.

But, you cannot deny the fact that many of these Islamic radicals (whom the majority are in fact muslim) cite "Americas support of Israel" as their justification for killing Americans. Hell, we have heard Bin Laden say this himself!!!

The individual in the CIA whom just retired that was the head of the group in charge of tracking Bin Laden has recently come out and said that Bin Ladens long term goal is to eradicate Israel from the Earth.....that is not a secret.

I agree, but it's also not a secret that Bin Laden's other goal is to eradicate the Saudi Government, and about all the Arab governments in the region. Have you heard what he says about them, he calls them all sorts of name and says he wants to overthrow them all.

We have bombings here in Saudi Arabia by people saying they're from Al- Qaeda, and they said openly that killing *Saudi Muslim* officers is ok, or saudi muslims civilians if they need to, what sort of Islam is this?!!, they have their own version of Islam, there's not a single verse in Qur'an that can even be remotly interpreted in such a way.

When you have someone who's been angry for decades, it's bound to happen, one day he'll explode, and he'll use whatever excuse to justify his means.

-OT