All Hail Benedict XVI

[CyniQ]

Furthermore, do you not see this as God committing one of the "seven deadly sins"? Seems about as prideful as a dude can get.

Come to think of it, sounds an awful lot like the Roman/Greek gods who are typically criticized for being too much like human beings which "supposedly" demonstrates that they were figments of the human imagination. Hmmmmmmmmmm, what does that say about the Christian divinity.......

As to God being prideful. I'm not sure what to say to that. I would equate imparting human emotion (on that basic level) to God is comparable to imparting human sexuality to an animal. It just doesn't work for me. There are a great many things I don't understand regarding the concept of a "God". For example, He never had a begining. At what point in infinity to you decide, "Okay, I think I'll make some shit now."?? Since you won't participate in the E v. C thread. I'll do it here. As I've said before, Darwin believed that evolution didn't make any sense. He believed that Creation by a higher power made even less sense, so he chose evolution and natural selection. I believe exactly the opposite, evolution doesn't make any sense so we must have been created by a higher power.

As to a "loving" God condemning people to eternal damnation? I don't believe in Hell, and I don't believe the Bible teachs that our immortal souls will be tormented. So that's not a problem for me.

As for Pantera. Are you referring to some ancient Greek philosopher that I don't know about? Oh. YOu mean the band!?! How profound. I don't disagree with that quote at all. Not quite sure how it applies to the concept of answering to God for your actions though.

 

[Grizzly]

Is it religious convention or biblical teaching that says, "bad dudes go to hell"? If it's only the church saying such, then ok. Hoever, if it says so in the bible, then how can you say you believe in it/god/all that crap if you're going to reject one of the tenets?

 

[Bob Smith]

Hell, as described in the Bible, is not a place of firey death and torture. Hell is eternal separation from God. The "hell" that everyone thinks of isnt Biblical and is likely the brainchild of the early Catholic church.

 

[CyniQ]

Is it religious convention or biblical teaching that says, "bad dudes go to hell"? If it's only the church saying such, then ok. Hoever, if it says so in the bible, then how can you say you believe in it/god/all that crap if you're going to reject one of the tenets?

It's kind of a combination of traditions and misinterpretations. The Bible does talk about a fiery pit. In ancient Jerusalem they burned their garbage in a fiery pit called Gehenna(sp?). Jesus spoke of people being remanded to Gehenna, which represented complete annihilation. The bible also speaks of Hades and Sheol. These are terms that refer to the grave. This is evident in some parts of the Bible, like where Job prayed that he would be concealed in Sheol. You wouldn't pray to go to Hell would you? Besides Romans 6:23(?) says that the wages sin pays is death, not eternal damnation, but death. So if you die then that in itself is the price you pay for your sins.

There are alot of things that churches teach that I don't believe. Anytime I bring these things up to a minister or pastor. They either tell me that I don't comprehend the Sacred Mystery or some bullshit like that, or they run crying like babies. But they never, so far, prove me wrong in the Bible.

 

[Grizzly]

Hell, as described in the Bible, is not a place of firey death and torture. Hell is eternal separation from God. The "hell" that everyone thinks of isnt Biblical and is likely the brainchild of the early Catholic church.

So, it's just like living on earth except you're dead and living in the spirit realm? Damn, I think I'm going on a mass murdering spree if that's all I have to fear. I think I'll start with you, Bob. My sis said you were being mean.

 

[CyniQ]

So, it's just like living on earth except you're dead and living in the spirit realm? Damn, I think I'm going on a mass murdering spree if that's all I have to fear. I think I'll start with you, Bob. My sis said you were being mean.

Well. Bob's probably going to have a cow on this one. But, I don't believe in immortality of the soul either.

 

[Bob Smith]

So, it's just like living on earth except you're dead and living in the spirit realm? Damn, I think I'm going on a mass murdering spree if that's all I have to fear. I think I'll start with you, Bob. My sis said you were being mean.

Well...she wouldnt talk dirty to me, so I got a little upset!

 

[swing]

Most of what people regard as contradictions are actually their own ignorance combined with somewhat inadequate information. I think that's probably the case here. The book of Matthew was written by Matthew. Acts was written by Luke. You're comparing two different points of view. Judas hung himself near a cliff the branch to which he tied the rope breaks and his body falls to the rocks below where it breaks apart. Did he die from the hanging or the falling? Two different points of view.

Regarding the creation record as it occurs in scripture. The sun and earth were likely created long before the first creative day began. Genesis 1:2, the earth was formless and there was a darkness on the surface of the watery deep. Gen 1:3, some translations read "Let light come to be." JW Watts translation says "gradually light came into existence". This is appropriate as (and you probably know this) the form of the Hebrew verb involved means a "gradual occurance". Perhaps a mixture of water vapor, gases, and volcanic dust prevented the suns light from reaching the earth. This began to clear gradually from the first day, as God proceeded with other creation, and had cleared enough by the fourth day that the sun and moon and stars were clearly discernable.

Why you would think that reading the bible in Arabic would help you to understand it better is beyond me. Do you think that the Arabic versions you've read have undergone any fewer translations and revisions than the English??

The idea that you have more respect for the "Qur'an" than the Bible, betrays your thinly veiled ignorance. Abraham is the "father" of all three of the religions that you mentioned. I would actually categorize them as two religions as according to scripture Jews should actually be Christians, and of the two religions, Islam is the newest. Many texts in the Qur'an are biblical ripoffs. Muhammed wrestled with an angel. Sound familiar?

BTW if you're actually pursuing a Phd. You should try to use the words "contradict" and "contradiction" in the proper context.

The Old Testament was primarily revealed in three languages: Aramaic, Hebrew, and Arabic (all sister-tongues of one another). Obviously, if you aren't familiar with either of these languages you would accept the notion that differences between an arabic and english translation are miniscule. On the contrary, the difference is magnanimous.

My issue concerning the death of Judas is simple: IF the Bible was divinely inspired by God, then surely He would have revealed the actual event. Rather, what we find are two totally different accounts of what supposedly occurred. Where in the bible does it state the rope had broken when Judas hung himself? I seem to have missed it somehow. The degree of separation between opinion and revelation within the Bible are indiscernible.

Regarding the creation, the concept of "day" (according to many Biblical scholars) is not necessarily representative of an 24 hour time span. In arabic and hebrew "yaum" not only means "day," but also "a long period of time." Again, according to the bible God created vegetation prior to Sun. And IF the light was created, and unable to penetrate the gaseous clouds, that would still make it impossible for vegetation to survive.

There isn't anywhere within the Islamic text (Koran), traditions (Hadith), or beliefs that even remotely mentions Muhammad wrestling with an angel. I challenge you to produce evidence to support this absurd claim. Secondly, the Bible and Koran are extraordinarily different. To say the Koranic narrations are a "rip-off" from the bible again validates your ignorance. Many have asserted the bible, as well as, the Trinitarian concept as merely being a "rip-off" of previous beliefs, i.e. Hinduism. One cannot compare and contrast two items if they
aren't familiar with either.

Finally, many biblical scholars have stated regarding the Gospel of Matthew, "the gospel itself says nothing about its author who is generally considered to be an unknown Hebrew Christian or Gentile believer." Regarding Luke, "Luke-Acts names no author, but in the second century it was ATTRIBUTED to Luke..." Gather your facts before you attempt to debate.

 

[Grizzly]

Well. Bob's probably going to have a cow on this one. But, I don't believe in immortality of the soul either.

If there is no immortal soul, then how is one accountable for his actions on earth in the hereafter?

 

[Bob Smith]

On the contrary, the difference is magnanimous.

What surprises me is that for a PhD candidate, your choice of words has repeatedly been off the mark. Magnanimous makes absolutely no sense in that sentance.

 

[swing]

I never claimed to possess my Ph.D, I'm currently working on it. And my field of study is Middle Eastern Studies with an emphasis in Islamic Culture and Civilization.

 

[swing]

Oops, I made 2 mistakes. Pardon me for not editing my writings, but I'm not any attempts to impress anyone on this board. Yes, a candidate currently working on my Doctorate in Middle Eastern Studies with an emphasis in Islamic Culture and Civilization.

 

[CyniQ]

The Old Testament was primarily revealed in three languages: Aramaic, Hebrew, and Arabic (all sister-tongues of one another). Obviously, if you aren't familiar with either of these languages you would accept the notion that differences between an arabic and english translation are miniscule. On the contrary, the difference is magnanimous.

Regarding the creation, the concept of "day" (according to many Biblical scholars) is not necessarily representative of an 24 hour time span. In arabic and hebrew "yaum" not only means "day," but also "a long period of time." Again, according to the bible God created vegetation prior to Sun. And IF the light was created, and unable to penetrate the gaseous clouds, that would still make it impossible for vegetation to survive.

There isn't anywhere within the Islamic text (Koran), traditions (Hadith), or beliefs that even remotely mentions Muhammad wrestling with an angel. I challenge you to produce evidence to support this absurd claim. Secondly, the Bible and Koran are extraordinarily different. To say the Koranic narrations are a "rip-off" from the bible again validates your ignorance. Many have asserted the bible, as well as, the Trinitarian concept as merely being a "rip-off" of previous beliefs, i.e. Hinduism. One cannot compare and contrast two items if they
aren't familiar with either.

Finally, many biblical scholars have stated regarding the Gospel of Matthew, "the gospel itself says nothing about its author who is generally considered to be an unknown Hebrew Christian or Gentile believer." Regarding Luke, "Luke-Acts names no author, but in the second century it was ATTRIBUTED to Luke..." Gather your facts before you attempt to debate.

I did not mean to imply that I do not believe understanding the language in which the scriptures are written is unimportant. Your statement about the word "Yaum" is certainly evidence. I also try to determine and understand the meaning of certain translated words in the Bible, especially in difficult verses. I only meant that to assume that somehow an Arabic translation is more accurate and thus superior to an English one is not, in my opinion, valid. The King James translation of the Bible is written in English, which is my native tongue. It still may as well be Greek. Languages evolve and change over the centuries. A modern Bible text in Arabic was copied and translated thousands of times, just as a modern English text.

The concept of a "Holy Trinity" is NOT in the Bible. Get your facts straight before you debate, Masood.

The Qur'an discusses and honors many things that are in the Bible. Like Noah, his Ark, Abraham, and ibn Maryam. Who is the only woman whose personal name is in the Qur'an? What is Youm al Qiyamah?

How many people who are in the Qur'an are mentioned in the Bible?

Where is the Cave of Judi?

I don't know how you can possibly have more respect for the Qur'an than the Bible. Whoever wrote the Qur'an wasn't even smart enough to spell the angel Gabriel's name correctly. Jibraeel. Huh. Whatever. Oops, was that another rip off??

 

[swing]

I did not mean to imply that I do not believe understanding the language in which the scriptures are written is unimportant. Your statement about the word "Yaum" is certainly evidence. I also try to determine and understand the meaning of certain translated words in the Bible, especially in difficult verses. I only meant that to assume that somehow an Arabic translation is more accurate and thus superior to an English one is not, in my opinion, valid. The King James translation of the Bible is written in English, which is my native tongue. It still may as well be Greek. Languages evolve and change over the centuries. A modern Bible text in Arabic was copied and translated thousands of times, just as a modern English text.

The concept of a "Holy Trinity" is NOT in the Bible. Get your facts straight before you debate, Masood.

The Qur'an discusses and honors many things that are in the Bible. Like Noah, his Ark, Abraham, and ibn Maryam. Who is the only woman whose personal name is in the Qur'an? What is Youm al Qiyamah?

How many people who are in the Qur'an are mentioned in the Bible?

Where is the Cave of Judi?

I don't know how you can possibly have more respect for the Qur'an than the Bible. Whoever wrote the Qur'an wasn't even smart enough to spell the angel Gabriel's name correctly. Jibreel. Huh. Whatever. Oops, was that another rip off??

My name is not Mas'ud (you spelled it incorrectly). The majority of Christians are adamant the Trinitarian concept is located within the Bible...the father, the son, and the holy spirit. Many religions have found similarities within the Qur'an. The Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Zorastrians, Jews, etc. So, I guess he must have copied from those religious texts as well. Likewise, there are a number of interesting similarities between the Baghavad Gita (which pre-dates the Bible) and the Jewish-Christian scriptures. Is that to say the Bible mimics the Baghavad Gita? Maybe...maybe not. But it wouldn't be impossible to assume that if God revealed one text to group a, then he would also reveal a text to group b.

Ibn Maryam is 'Isa ibn Maryam (Jesus). And how many people in the Qur'an that are not mentioned in the Bible? By the way, Yaum Al-Qiyamah (literally, the Day of Standing) is one of many names for the Day of Judgement. You have truly displayed your ignorance of linguistics...Jibrael is spelled differently because of the language. Just as Yusuf in arabic is Yeshuah in hebrew, and Joseph in english. The same for the word 'peace,' in arabic its 'salam,' and hebrew 'shalom.'

But you never produced your evidence about Muhammad wrestling an angel. Either you should admit that what you said was false, or that you deliberately lied.

 

[CyniQ]

My name is not Mas'ud (you spelled it incorrectly). The majority of Christians are adamant the Trinitarian concept is located within the Bible...the father, the son, and the holy spirit. Many religions have found similarities within the Qur'an. The Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Zorastrians, Jews, etc. So, I guess he must have copied from those religious texts as well. Likewise, there are a number of interesting similarities between the Baghavad Gita (which pre-dates the Bible) and the Jewish-Christian scriptures. Is that to say the Bible mimics the Baghavad Gita? Maybe...maybe not. But it wouldn't be impossible to assume that if God revealed one text to group a, then he would also reveal a text to group b.

Ibn Maryam is 'Isa ibn Maryam (Jesus). And how many people in the Qur'an that are not mentioned in the Bible? By the way, Yaum Al-Qiyamah (literally, the Day of Standing) is one of many names for the Day of Judgement. You have truly displayed your ignorance of linguistics...Jibrael is spelled differently because of the language. Just as Yusuf in arabic is Yeshuah in hebrew, and Joseph in english. The same for the word 'peace,' in arabic its 'salam,' and hebrew 'shalom.'

But you never produced your evidence about Muhammad wrestling an angel. You should admit that what you said was false, or you deliberately lied.

You are correct that I did not address my previous statement about Muhammed wrestling with an angel. I was remiss, and I apologize. I was under the impression that Jibraeel (I've seen it spelled many different ways) choked certain Suwar out of Muhammed. Since he grabbed him forcably and choked him, I would assume that it would be safe to call that "wrestling". Regardless, it is not a stretch to call the Qur'an a ripoff of the Bible. Although it may be a little disingenuous to call it such as the Qur'an itself acknowledges it's predecessor. It is absolutely hypocritical, in my opinion, to call the Qur'an superior to the Bible since without the Bible the Qur'an could not exist.

Bhagavad Gita? "I am the milker. You are the calf...Hare Krishna, Hare Hare, Krishna Krishna, Gurur Brahma" LOL. Could you be more specific about the similarities? I'll admit my ignorance.

You're going to counsel me on linguistics??

Mr.

On the contrary, the difference is magnanimous.

LOL. Just kidding.

Still, I have concerns about a "God" who "reveals" his message to a guy who can't read or write and trusts him to memorize it. Wouldn't it have made more sense for Allah to teach the Arabs to make paper??

And learn to recognize a Joke, Abdullah. Did I misspell that one too???