Aggressive cut refeeds

[Andrewthatguy]

So I’m on an aggressive cut, probably 1200 deficit (yes it’s 1200 calories I weigh every single thing that goes in my body on a food scale). I know there’s probably more optimal ways to cut, I don’t care my goal is to get lean and make being fat a thing of the past and not be on a cut for the next 6-7 months when I can finish in a month or two. I’ve been able to stick to cutting like this for long periods of time, with no refeeds no cheat meals, none of that shit.

I am running a moderate amount of Tren and Reta of course with a test base and a lil mast for e2 (might take out the mast cause Ive been reading and seeing that it doesn’t necessarily lower e2 and works more like a serm) and I’m wondering if it would be beneficial to add refeeds. I did a refeed the other day with a double steak chipotle bowl with none of the fat ass additions like queso and shit, and when I was cutting naturally eating that would cause bloat and water retention, this time it’s like the fuckin shit melted from my metabolism or something.

Also side note, would it make more sense to hop into maintenance for a bit while I cruise after the cut, or should I hop into a bulk, cause really I’d like to get to gaining muscle asap, of course not blast again until done with health phase/cruise time.

 

[IndividualMan]

So I’m on an aggressive cut, probably 1200 deficit (yes it’s 1200 calories I weigh every single thing that goes in my body on a food scale). I know there’s probably more optimal ways to cut, I don’t care my goal is to get lean and make being fat a thing of the past and not be on a cut for the next 6-7 months when I can finish in a month or two. I’ve been able to stick to cutting like this for long periods of time, with no refeeds no cheat meals, none of that shit.

I am running a moderate amount of Tren and Reta of course with a test base and a lil mast for e2 (might take out the mast cause Ive been reading and seeing that it doesn’t necessarily lower e2 and works more like a serm) and I’m wondering if it would be beneficial to add refeeds. I did a refeed the other day with a double steak chipotle bowl with none of the fat ass additions like queso and shit, and when I was cutting naturally eating that would cause bloat and water retention, this time it’s like the fuckin shit melted from my metabolism or something.

Also side note, would it make more sense to hop into maintenance for a bit while I cruise after the cut, or should I hop into a bulk, cause really I’d like to get to gaining muscle asap, of course not blast again until done with health phase/cruise time.

maintenance between cut and bulk is always a good idea. slowly upping the cals+ the gear and milking the gains for as long as possible without getting fat. Thats the most efficient way to go about it.

if you immediately bulk but dont up the gear, you are probably just gonna get fatter than necessary

 

[delay3s]

So I’m on an aggressive cut, probably 1200 deficit (yes it’s 1200 calories I weigh every single thing that goes in my body on a food scale). I know there’s probably more optimal ways to cut, I don’t care my goal is to get lean and make being fat a thing of the past and not be on a cut for the next 6-7 months when I can finish in a month or two. I’ve been able to stick to cutting like this for long periods of time, with no refeeds no cheat meals, none of that shit.

I am running a moderate amount of Tren and Reta of course with a test base and a lil mast for e2 (might take out the mast cause Ive been reading and seeing that it doesn’t necessarily lower e2 and works more like a serm) and I’m wondering if it would be beneficial to add refeeds. I did a refeed the other day with a double steak chipotle bowl with none of the fat ass additions like queso and shit, and when I was cutting naturally eating that would cause bloat and water retention, this time it’s like the fuckin shit melted from my metabolism or something.

Also side note, would it make more sense to hop into maintenance for a bit while I cruise after the cut, or should I hop into a bulk, cause really I’d like to get to gaining muscle asap, of course not blast again until done with health phase/cruise time.

I'd go to maintenance cals while cruising for however long you want that health phase to be. Test/tren/mast is one of the most popular cutting cycles for a reason, I don't know your doses but as long as you can sleep/train and function good then you can run an aggressive deficit fine on that cycle.

For refeeds the only reason to really do one is if performance in the gym is dipping and your feeling run down. Another reason to have a refeed is if your constantly starving but that wont give you much physical benefit just mental.

For the refeed I always like to have most of the additional cals coming from carbs to refill gylcogen and better gym performance, keep fat low and protein the same/slightly lower since the carbs will be protein sparing.

 

[Andrewthatguy]

I'd go to maintenance cals while cruising for however long you want that health phase to be. Test/tren/mast is one of the most popular cutting cycles for a reason, I don't know your doses but as long as you can sleep/train and function good then you can run an aggressive deficit fine on that cycle.

For refeeds the only reason to really do one is if performance in the gym is dipping and your feeling run down. Another reason to have a refeed is if your constantly starving but that wont give you much physical benefit just mental.

For the refeed I always like to have most of the additional cals coming from carbs to refill gylcogen and better gym performance, keep fat low and protein the same/slightly lower since the carbs will be protein sparing.

Yeah that all Makes sense. The only thing that’s suffered is my cardio by 10 minutes. The scale going down and the body changes I see are still good so I figure no biggy. Strength increased a little and kind of plateaud, which I mean makes sense cause I don’t know if gear can really counteract the fact that I’m not eating enough calories to gain muscle.

I was just thinking it might be useful to have refeeds to get some extra protein once every couple weeks or something, that doesn’t seem to be the case though. I really don’t like refeeds and stuff like that cause it just gives me cravings, and I’d rather do everything in my power to avoid having a binge.

 

[RockyP]

Personally, and I do mean personally - taking into account all of my flaws and issues with food - I do not like "refeeds" when cutting unless it means just adding an extra meal or two of the clean food I am already eating. I do incorporate an occasional sushi dinner when massing / maintaining, but when cutting I am far to neurotic to not know exactly what is going down my pie hole. I also find that re-feeds are, in general, over-deployed. For this year's olympia, Brett Wilkin didn't get a refeed from Stefan at all. This was a mistake as it turns out, and Brett said it was the first prep he can remember doing without re-feeds / cheat meals. But really, unless you are peeled inside out and trying to hold mass for a contest, cheats / refeeds are of suspect utility. But just to define the terms, I hear "re feed" i think of cheat meal. You might mean what I referred to above, which was just eating more clean food in a caloric surplus for the day. Those I think are very helpful, and if you are in a 1200 deficit, you may want to consider doing something like a 500 surplus controlled refeed at least once per week, but only when the fat loss stalls to less than 2 lbs per week.

 

[Andrewthatguy]

Personally, and I do mean personally - taking into account all of my flaws and issues with food - I do not like "refeeds" when cutting unless it means just adding an extra meal or two of the clean food I am already eating. I do incorporate an occasional sushi dinner when massing / maintaining, but when cutting I am far to neurotic to not know exactly what is going down my pie hole. I also find that re-feeds are, in general, over-deployed. For this year's olympia, Brett Wilkin didn't get a refeed from Stefan at all. This was a mistake as it turns out, and Brett said it was the first prep he can remember doing without re-feeds / cheat meals. But really, unless you are peeled inside out and trying to hold mass for a contest, cheats / refeeds are of suspect utility. But just to define the terms, I hear "re feed" i think of cheat meal. You might mean what I referred to above, which was just eating more clean food in a caloric surplus for the day. Those I think are very helpful, and if you are in a 1200 deficit, you may want to consider doing something like a 500 surplus controlled refeed at least once per week, but only when the fat loss stalls to less than 2 lbs per week.

Yeah I’m the same, I have a terrible relationship when it comes to going off diet even a little. I went on vacation a while back and put myself back by a couple months cause I told myself I’m on vacation it’s okay to eat all the “good food” on a cut I’d be done with by now or even a couple months ago cause I just went off the rails have crazy cheat meals every Saturday. Now I’m kind of scared of going on vacation in the future.

I was thinking more of like a chipotle bowl once in a while with double protein, rice, black beans, salsa, veggies and maybe corn if I’m feeling spicy, or a sirloin steak, something like that. I think it’d probably just be better to finish the cut and go have one steak at a steakhouse with healthy sides and immediately hop into a maintenance phase.

The only thing with the maintenance phase is I had all my bulk meals planned out and it would actually be pretty affordable, not sure how I’m gonna pull that off that affordable part on a maintenance cause I’m still going to have to shoot for leaner meats and stuff like that, I’ll start planning it out though it’s only gonna be 2-3 months maintenance and deploying what I need to get my bloodwork back to being optimal.

 

[delay3s]

Yeah I’m the same, I have a terrible relationship when it comes to going off diet even a little. I went on vacation a while back and put myself back by a couple months cause I told myself I’m on vacation it’s okay to eat all the “good food” on a cut I’d be done with by now or even a couple months ago cause I just went off the rails have crazy cheat meals every Saturday. Now I’m kind of scared of going on vacation in the future.

I was thinking more of like a chipotle bowl once in a while with double protein, rice, black beans, salsa, veggies and maybe corn if I’m feeling spicy, or a sirloin steak, something like that. I think it’d probably just be better to finish the cut and go have one steak at a steakhouse with healthy sides and immediately hop into a maintenance phase.

The only thing with the maintenance phase is I had all my bulk meals planned out and it would actually be pretty affordable, not sure how I’m gonna pull that off that affordable part on a maintenance cause I’m still going to have to shoot for leaner meats and stuff like that, I’ll start planning it out though it’s only gonna be 2-3 months maintenance and deploying what I need to get my bloodwork back to being optimal.

I’m not gonna lie bro it sounds like you really want that chipotle bowl lmao, if it’s between having a refeed day or having a huge binge session because you restricted yourself for too long the refeed will win everytime especially if it’s a structured one like you are suggesting.

Keep in mind your on tren and Reta and although people overrate them by saying stupid shit like “your on tren bro you can eat whatever you want”, having a refeed day going into a surplus with carbs only is very unlikely to put any fat on you if it’s controlled, even if it shoots weight up temporarily. Your on an aggressive deficit and tren and Reta improve nutrient partitioning and insulin sensitivity by a lot. Hitting a sick workout then getting some chipotle after wouldn’t be a bad idea as long as it doesn’t turn into binging/make it harder to get back into the aggressive deficit.

 

[Andrewthatguy]

I’m not gonna lie bro it sounds like you really want that chipotle bowl lmao, if it’s between having a refeed day or having a huge binge session because you restricted yourself for too long the refeed will win everytime especially if it’s a structured one like you are suggesting.

Keep in mind your on tren and Reta and although people overrate them by saying stupid shit like “your on tren bro you can eat whatever you want”, having a refeed day going into a surplus with carbs only is very unlikely to put any fat on you if it’s controlled, even if it shoots weight up temporarily. Your on an aggressive deficit and tren and Reta improve nutrient partitioning and insulin sensitivity by a lot. Hitting a sick workout then getting some chipotle after wouldn’t be a bad idea as long as it doesn’t turn into binging/make it harder to get back into the aggressive deficit.

You’re right I absolutely really want that bowl. Way more than that though I’m sick of this cut and wanna get it over with.

 

[adrenalytic]

You’re right I absolutely really want that bowl. Way more than that though I’m sick of this cut and wanna get it over with.

increase the reta. Kill that food noise.

 

[shredded.lyfe]

What's your reta dose? If you answer with any of the following words: "micro dose" "1mg 2-3x a week"

Then I have found your problem

 

[RockyP]

My fav thing about reta is that the appetite suppression eventually (for me) subsides. So I can feel like I'm eating a ton, and for me 4000 calories isn't a little bit of food, and get all the energy, fullness, and anabolism I need without worrying about fat accumulation. What's more is that all the metabolic benefits from reta increase linearly in a dose dependent manner up to about 8 mg weeky. I def did get a lot of appetite suppression along the way but once I reached 5 to 6 mg weekly for a few months it's much more enjoyable and conducive to bodybuilding lifestyle. Sema and Tirz are likely to give more appetite suppression, but for those of us looking to optimize physique I think that appetite suppression is a fairly short sighted metric. I've always looked my best when eating the most and being the most active. I'd rather have a metabolism that's going apeshit than one that is slowing down each day because I'm eating less and less.

 

[shredded.lyfe]

My fav thing about reta is that the appetite suppression eventually (for me) subsides. So I can feel like I'm eating a ton, and for me 4000 calories isn't a little bit of food, and get all the energy, fullness, and anabolism I need without worrying about fat accumulation. What's more is that all the metabolic benefits from reta increase linearly in a dose dependent manner up to about 8 mg weeky. I def did get a lot of appetite suppression along the way but once I reached 5 to 6 mg weekly for a few months it's much more enjoyable and conducive to bodybuilding lifestyle. Sema and Tirz are likely to give more appetite suppression, but for those of us looking to optimize physique I think that appetite suppression is a fairly short sighted metric. I've always looked my best when eating the most and being the most active. I'd rather have a metabolism that's going apeshit than one that is slowing down each day because I'm eating less and less.

This is how I use it but I found 10mg keeps me just in comfortable range of my weight class.

The hunger suppression on 10mg is significantly higher than 8mg, that was not a linear increase for me.

When im in my off season I will be titrating back to 8mg and probably 6mg

 

[RockyP]

This is how I use it but I found 10mg keeps me just in comfortable range of my weight class.

The hunger suppression on 10mg is significantly higher than 8mg, that was not a linear increase for me.

When im in my off season I will be titrating back to 8mg and probably 6mg

The appetite suppression is a wild card with reta, some guys get it hard at 1 mg, some dont get it at all. The linear relationship I was referring to was the benefits in bloodwork, etc. from one of the clinical trials. It does increase beyond 8 mg, but it levels off a bit. I did notice a jump in appetite suppression and dyspepsia / GERD like symptoms each time i went up on the dosage by 1mg / week. I was eating Betaine capsules with every meal (and still am for larger meals).

 

[Andrewthatguy]

What's your reta dose? If you answer with any of the following words: "micro dose" "1mg 2-3x a week"

Then I have found your problem

Na I’ve honestly gotten up to 6. I just went up a little too cause that food noise was a little intolerable.

 

[Andrewthatguy]

What's your reta dose? If you answer with any of the following words: "micro dose" "1mg 2-3x a week"

Then I have found your problem

I went by the titration schedule in the trials. Had trouble last push to 8, I just went up again so i see how I’ll tolerate it should be fine.

 

[Andrewthatguy]

My fav thing about reta is that the appetite suppression eventually (for me) subsides. So I can feel like I'm eating a ton, and for me 4000 calories isn't a little bit of food, and get all the energy, fullness, and anabolism I need without worrying about fat accumulation. What's more is that all the metabolic benefits from reta increase linearly in a dose dependent manner up to about 8 mg weeky. I def did get a lot of appetite suppression along the way but once I reached 5 to 6 mg weekly for a few months it's much more enjoyable and conducive to bodybuilding lifestyle. Sema and Tirz are likely to give more appetite suppression, but for those of us looking to optimize physique I think that appetite suppression is a fairly short sighted metric. I've always looked my best when eating the most and being the most active. I'd rather have a metabolism that's going apeshit than one that is slowing down each day because I'm eating less and less.

Funny story, I’ve basically got zero appetite suppression the whole time even on smaller doses, which is what I was hoping for. I really went to glps though so I could stick to the aggressive cut and see it through, so even though I didn’t get the appetite suppression I’ve gotten all the other benefits and it has made dieting a breeze. It definitely has become time to up the dose though. I’m glad I didn’t switch to tirz like I wanted cause I probably would of just said fuck it and barely eat at for months and drop weight quick and lose a good amount of the muscle I’ve worked my ass off for. Reta is awesome though probably one of the main tools I’ll keep in my bag.

 

[IGF_Juan]

Yes a refeed can definitely be productive while in an aggressive cut. The key tho is to focus on carbs while keeping fat minimal (no added fats).

The goal of the refeed is to hack the body's metabolism to partition the additional food to glycogen stores and not fat. Also may help in keeping metabolism from down regulating and increase/ sustain gym performance.

I'm a month into contest prep and have been refeeding once a week on 1000+ g of carbs and still dropping 1-2 lbs a week with no cardio. On my refeeds, fat is kept to trace fats (~20g for the day) and protein is lowered to 200 (from 275). Everything is pushed to carbs (frosted flakes, cream of rice, jasmine rice, sourdough bread, maple syrup and honey).

If everything is clicking, don't be surprised if your hungrier on refeed days than low days. This is a good sign!

 

[Andrewthatguy]

Yes a refeed can definitely be productive while in an aggressive cut. The key tho is to focus on carbs while keeping fat minimal (no added fats).

The goal of the refeed is to hack the body's metabolism to partition the additional food to glycogen stores and not fat. Also may help in keeping metabolism from down regulating and increase/ sustain gym performance.

I'm a month into contest prep and have been refeeding once a week on 1000+ g of carbs and still dropping 1-2 lbs a week with no cardio. On my refeeds, fat is kept to trace fats (~20g for the day) and protein is lowered to 200 (from 275). Everything is pushed to carbs (frosted flakes, cream of rice, jasmine rice, sourdough bread, maple syrup and honey).

If everything is clicking, don't be surprised if your hungrier on refeed days than low days. This is a good sign!

How much sour dough bread do you eat to hit 1000 grams of carbs?

 

[GreatOak]

Yes a refeed can definitely be productive while in an aggressive cut. The key tho is to focus on carbs while keeping fat minimal (no added fats).

The goal of the refeed is to hack the body's metabolism to partition the additional food to glycogen stores and not fat. Also may help in keeping metabolism from down regulating and increase/ sustain gym performance.

I'm a month into contest prep and have been refeeding once a week on 1000+ g of carbs and still dropping 1-2 lbs a week with no cardio. On my refeeds, fat is kept to trace fats (~20g for the day) and protein is lowered to 200 (from 275). Everything is pushed to carbs (frosted flakes, cream of rice, jasmine rice, sourdough bread, maple syrup and honey).

If everything is clicking, don't be surprised if your hungrier on refeed days than low days. This is a good sign!

THIS ! This is how you refeed!

 

[IGF_Juan]

Its not 1000g of carbs from sourdough exclusively lol - wouldn't suggest that. Personally I'm only getting 50g from sourdough.