Affordable Care Act (ACA) - Obamacare

[TheGuy85]

Nice one Nancy.

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

21 Ways Canada's Single-Payer System Beats Obamacare
Canadian style single-payer healthcare is simple, affordable, comprehensive and universal—unlike the US's labyrinthine ACA.
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/21-ways-canadas-single-payer-system-beats-obamacare

Number 21:
In Canada, everyone is covered automatically at birth – everybody in, nobody out.

In the United States, under Obamacare, 31 million Americans will still be uninsured by 2023 and millions more will remain underinsured.

True

Number 20:
In Canada, the health system is designed to put people, not profits, first.

In the United States, Obamacare will do little to curb insurance industry profits and will actually enhance insurance industry profits.

The Canadian health system is designed to provide "minimally acceptable" health care as cheaply as possible. People don't come first, keeping costs down comes first.

Number 19:
In Canada, coverage is not tied to a job or dependent on your income – rich and poor are in the same system, the best guaranty of quality.

In the United States, under Obamacare, much still depends on your job or income. Lose your job or lose your income, and you might lose your existing health insurance or have to settle for lesser coverage.

All Canadians receive the same health care if they use the system - rich or poor but there is no guarantee of quality - you get what's available.

Number 18:
In Canada, health care coverage stays with you for your entire life.

In the United States, under Obamacare, for tens of millions of Americans, health care coverage stays with you for as long as you can afford your share.

True

Number 17:
In Canada, you can freely choose your doctors and hospitals and keep them. There are no lists of “in-network” vendors and no extra hidden charges for going “out of network.”

In the United States, under Obamacare, the in-network list of places where you can get treated is shrinking – thus restricting freedom of choice – and if you want to go out of network, you pay for it.

Not exactly. In Canada, many people have difficulty even finding a PCP.

You can request a particular doctor or specialist but there is no guarantee you'll be successful - especially if you want to be seen within a reasonable amount of time. If you require surgery for a broken leg, for instance, your chances of getting the physician of your choice are much less. In most cases, you take what you get.

Number 16:
In Canada, the health care system is funded by income, sales and corporate taxes that, combined, are much lower than what Americans pay in premiums.

In the United States, under Obamacare, for thousands of Americans, it’s pay or die – if you can’t pay, you die. That’s why many thousands will still die every year under Obamacare from lack of health insurance to get diagnosed and treated in time.

This article fails to mention that Canadians pay much higher taxes than Americans in order to fund the health system. Sales taxes are in the double digits in most provinces. Higher income taxes, gasoline, tobacco, alcohol, etc. The list is endless.

Number 15:
In Canada, there are no complex hospital or doctor bills. In fact, usually you don’t even see a bill.

In the United States, under Obamacare, hospital and doctor bills will still be terribly complex, making it impossible to discover the many costly overcharges.

True but governments continually add user fees, continuously nickel-and-diming Canadians.

Number 14:
In Canada, costs are controlled. Canada pays 10 percent of its GDP for its health care system, covering everyone.

In the United States, under Obamacare, costs continue to skyrocket. The U.S. currently pays 18 percent of its GDP and still doesn’t cover tens of millions of people.

Costs are controlled but continue to go up. And controlling costs results in lower quality, longer wait times, reduced services, etc.

Number 13:
In Canada, it is unheard of for anyone to go bankrupt due to health care costs.

In the United States, under Obamacare, health care driven bankruptcy will continue to plague Americans.

Mostly true but there are examples of Canadians losing everything trying to pay for expensive orphan drugs that are used to treat certain medical conditions. Provincial governments will also go after the savings and property of the elderly to pay for their nursing home care.

Number 12:
In Canada, simplicity leads to major savings in administrative costs and overhead.

In the United States, under Obamacare, complexity will lead to ratcheting up administrative costs and overhead.

The Canadian health system is comprised of several provincial and federal government bureaucracies. Nothing the government does is simple OR cheap.

Number 11:
In Canada, when you go to a doctor or hospital the first thing they ask you is: “What’s wrong?”

In the United States, the first thing they ask you is: “What kind of insurance do you have?”

True, they ask what's wrong. Then you wait... and wait... and wait some more.

Number 10:
In Canada, the government negotiates drug prices so they are more affordable.

In the United States, under Obamacare, Congress made it specifically illegal for the government to negotiate drug prices for volume purchases, so they remain unaffordable.

Most new drugs that are still under patent are considerably cheaper. Generics are not cheaper and OTC medicines cost far more in Canada than the US.

Number 9:
In Canada, the government health care funds are not profitably diverted to the top one percent.

In the United States, under Obamacare, health care funds will continue to flow to the top. In 2012, CEOs at six of the largest insurance companies in the U.S. received a total of $83.3 million in pay, plus benefits.

What's an article promoting the benefits of socialized health care without a touch of socialism thrown in? The dreaded 1%, no less. LMAO

There is never any profit to worry about in the Canadian health system - it is ALWAYS in the red.

And the dirty little secret is that the 1% don't use Canada's health system. They travel to the US and pay out-of-pocket.

Number 8:
In Canada, there are no necessary co-pays or deductibles.

In the United States, under Obamacare, the deductibles and co-pays will continue to be unaffordable for many millions of Americans.

There are many additional costs not covered in Canada. In addition to user fees, Canadians are responsible for the cost of dental care, vision care, prescription drugs, physiotherapy, etc.

Number 7:
In Canada, the health care system contributes to social solidarity and national pride.

In the United States, Obamacare is divisive, with rich and poor in different systems and tens of millions left out or with sorely limited benefits.

Only because the majority of Canadians are unaware that their health care is mediocre, with most having no experience with a private system like the US.

Number 6:
In Canada, delays in health care are not due to the cost of insurance.

In the United States, under Obamacare, patients without health insurance or who are underinsured will continue to delay or forgo care and put their lives at risk.

No, delays are due to a health system that is stretched to the breaking point because of underfunding.

Number 5:
In Canada, nobody dies due to lack of health insurance.

In the United States, under Obamacare, many thousands will continue to die every year due to lack of health insurance.

Of course not. They die on waiting lists.

Number 4:
In Canada, an increasing majority supports their health care system, which costs half as much, per person, as in the United States. And in Canada, everyone is covered.

In the United States, a majority – many for different reasons – oppose Obamacare.

See number 7.

Number 3:
In Canada, the tax payments to fund the health care system are progressive – the lowest 20 percent pays 6 percent of income into the system while the highest 20 percent pays 8 percent.

In the United States, under Obamacare, the poor pay a larger share of their income for health care than the affluent.

This is only true for income tax. The poor bear a higher burden paying everything else used to fund the system.

Number 2:
In Canada, the administration of the system is simple. You get a health care card when you are born. And you swipe it when you go to a doctor or hospital. End of story.

In the United States, Obamacare’s 2,500 pages plus regulations (the Canadian Medicare Bill was 13 pages) is so complex that then Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi said before passage “we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it.”

LOL. Is that all there is to it? Just swipe a card and forget it. Is this a joke?

Number 1:
In Canada, the majority of citizens love their health care system.

In the United States, the majority of citizens, physicians, and nurses prefer the Canadian type system – single-payer, free choice of doctor and hospital , everybody in, nobody out.

This article paints a picture of sunshine, daffodils and butterflies. The reality of the Canadian health system is MUCH different. I have lived under both the Canadian and American health system and there is no comparison, IMO. The last thing the US needs or wants is Canadian style health care. If the US government adopted the Canadian system, there would be a revolt, I'm sure.

CBS

 

[nuncaquite]

True

This article paints a picture of sunshine, daffodils and butterflies. The reality of the Canadian health system is MUCH different. I have lived under both the Canadian and American health system and there is no comparison, IMO. The last thing the US needs or wants is Canadian style health care. If the US government adopted the Canadian system, there would be a revolt, I'm sure.

CBS

Thanks for your educated opinion. Finally someone other than me who has live in/under a socialized medicine system. Different country, but same results.
No fukn surprise to me. Kinda scary, he doesnt like the Canadian system, and Canadians have brains in their heads and still. Its a first world country also.

Maybe Cuba has done it right.[)]

 

[james2012]

True



The Canadian health system is designed to provide "minimally acceptable" health care as cheaply as possible. People don't come first, keeping costs down comes first.



All Canadians receive the same health care if they use the system - rich or poor but there is no guarantee of quality - you get what's available.



True



Not exactly. In Canada, many people have difficulty even finding a PCP.

You can request a particular doctor or specialist but there is no guarantee you'll be successful - especially if you want to be seen within a reasonable amount of time. If you require surgery for a broken leg, for instance, your chances of getting the physician of your choice are much less. In most cases, you take what you get.




This article fails to mention that Canadians pay much higher taxes than Americans in order to fund the health system. Sales taxes are in the double digits in most provinces. Higher income taxes, gasoline, tobacco, alcohol, etc. The list is endless.



True but governments continually add user fees, continuously nickel-and-diming Canadians.



Costs are controlled but continue to go up. And controlling costs results in lower quality, longer wait times, reduced services, etc.



Mostly true but there are examples of Canadians losing everything trying to pay for expensive orphan drugs that are used to treat certain medical conditions. Provincial governments will also go after the savings and property of the elderly to pay for their nursing home care.



The Canadian health system is comprised of several provincial and federal government bureaucracies. Nothing the government does is simple OR cheap.




True, they ask what's wrong. Then you wait... and wait... and wait some more.



Most new drugs that are still under patent are considerably cheaper. Generics are not cheaper and OTC medicines cost far more in Canada than the US.



What's an article promoting the benefits of socialized health care without a touch of socialism thrown in? The dreaded 1%, no less. LMAO

There is never any profit to worry about in the Canadian health system - it is ALWAYS in the red.

And the dirty little secret is that the 1% don't use Canada's health system. They travel to the US and pay out-of-pocket.



There are many additional costs not covered in Canada. In addition to user fees, Canadians are responsible for the cost of dental care, vision care, prescription drugs, physiotherapy, etc.



Only because the majority of Canadians are unaware that their health care is mediocre, with most having no experience with a private system like the US.



No, delays are due to a health system that is stretched to the breaking point because of underfunding.



Of course not. They die on waiting lists.



See number 7.



This is only true for income tax. The poor bear a higher burden paying everything else used to fund the system.



LOL. Is that all there is to it? Just swipe a card and forget it. Is this a joke?



This article paints a picture of sunshine, daffodils and butterflies. The reality of the Canadian health system is MUCH different. I have lived under both the Canadian and American health system and there is no comparison, IMO. The last thing the US needs or wants is Canadian style health care. If the US government adopted the Canadian system, there would be a revolt, I'm sure.

CBS

Bullshit. I'm from Canada and the propaganda machine there is very powerful. The healthcare sucks. Period. And it's collapsing. I now live in America. We had a guy from Pakistan in my group whose H1B expired. He went to our companies' Canadian location. It too him 18 MONTHS to find a primary care physician in Toronto. It is far worse in the suburbs. Canadians come to America for healthcare.

Now go back to the sheep farm. I do not have a single - not a single relative - who likes Canadian healthcare. The doctors are assholes and they can get away with it because - you can't go anywhere else or get another doctor bozo. I have one aunt whose mental illness has been so misdiagnosed she is on 6 different pills when she only needs one. I know more about medicine than half the idiot doctors in Canada do and that is not even my field.

Your credibility is going the way of Obama's. http://www.redstate.com/2013/11/25/a-majority-of-americans-now-believe-that-obama-is-not-honest-and-trustworthy/.

YA THINK! It took five years for American to figure out Obama is a lying POS? Something most sane people knew in 5 minutes. The fact that anyone can believe Canada has a great healthcare system is all the proof I need as to why this idiot was voted in twice.

 

[james2012]

The above is not targeted to CBS, but to any nitwit who would even dare to think Canada has a great healthcare system.

If it is so great then why, I wonder......?


Inside Canada's health care privatization movement

 

[nuncaquite]

Bullshit. I'm from Canada and the propaganda machine there is very powerful. The healthcare sucks. Period. And it's collapsing. I now live in America. We had a guy from Pakistan in my group whose H1B expired. He went to our companies' Canadian location. It too him 18 MONTHS to find a primary care physician in Toronto. It is far worse in the suburbs. Canadians come to America for healthcare.

Now go back to the sheep farm. I do not have a single - not a single relative - who likes Canadian healthcare. The doctors are assholes and they can get away with it because - you can't go anywhere else or get another doctor bozo. I have one aunt whose mental illness has been so misdiagnosed she is on 6 different pills when she only needs one. I know more about medicine than half the idiot doctors in Canada do and that is not even my field.

Your credibility is going the way of Obama's. http://www.redstate.com/2013/11/25/a-majority-of-americans-now-believe-that-obama-is-not-honest-and-trustworthy/.

YA THINK! It took five years for American to figure out Obama is a lying POS? Something most sane people knew in 5 minutes. The fact that anyone can believe Canada has a great healthcare system is all the proof I need as to why this idiot was voted in twice.

Better watch yourself. You are coming dangerously close to the treasonous truth with your comments.
Another truth, these big government types will always return to their natural orbit.
So them the truth, and for a moment they see it. In no time at all they deny their own eyes. Liberalism is an evil sickness, and evil never sleeps.

 

[james2012]

Obambi pisses on America - Tries to Convince Us It's raining.

So the website is fixed according to Obambi. Except, of course, that CNN just had it crash live on TV! [)][)][)]

Retard. This got me to thinking about all the failures of Obambi the President and the man. Here is the short list:

Fast & Furious
SEAL Team 6
Aid and comfort to the enemy
Obamacare would save the avg family $2500 per year
Forcing businesses to violate their religious beliefs
Violating the rights and sanctity of our Churches
Obamacare web site-cronyism
NSA acting as Obama Gestapo
17 Trillion in debt
Lies about Benghazi
Voter fraud
Intentionally trying to hurt Americans during the sequester
Intentionally trying to hurt Americans during govt shutdown
Blocking veterans from seeing their own memorials
Allowing illegals on mall during govt shutdown
Shutting down ‘The Peoples House’ tours
We can keep our insurance if we like it
We can keep our doctors if we like them
Military not getting their votes counted
Supporting the Muslim Brotherhood with arms and money
DOJ spying on the free press
Not securing our borders
Spying on Americans on American soil with drones
SOLYNDRA
Picking winners and losers
IRS targeting conservatives
IRS targeting the Tea Party
Millions losing health care coverage
Increasing welfare rolls
Increasing disability rolls
Countless party’s
Countless exorbitant vacations
Releasing illegal’s from prison
Unconstitutional recess appointment
NO budget for 5 years
Destroying the coal industry
Clapper lying to congress
Holder lying to congress
Failing to prosecute the New Black Panther
Reading our e-mail
War on women
Promoting race war
War between makers and takers
A123 Systems
Cash for clunkers failure
Debasing the U.S. Currency through inflationary "Quantitave Easing"
Common Core
Trayvon Martin
Infanticide supporter
Abortion supporter

2014 can't come soon enough. 2016 seems so far away, but seeing the back of Ovmits head is something I dream about often. A day for celebration.

And watching ObamaCare implode! Priceless. Pure frigging gold.

 

[Dr JIM]

And to think James that's Obama's just the "short list"!

I dearly hope Americans will learn a from the "lessons of the past" and choose NOT to elect a president whose political beliefs represents liberalisms far left next election.

Much of his agenda has approximated "class warfare" yet delivered in a covert manner.

Consequently many in the electorate "see" this veiled fiasco as the great "equalizer".

Recall pre-election Obama was propped as that president who will "level the playing field" in a more "equitable fashion" to ensure everyone pays "their fair share"!

Hmm let's see here, I paid taxes at a rate of 51% in 2012 (my an average "work week" of 65 hours excluding Meso lol).

So oh yea baby, I certainly believe the playing field should be "leveled".

Somehow however I suspect we (myself and Obama) aren't playing on the "same field" at all!

For those of you out there who believe a 50% tax rate is fair, I can almost promise you that opinion would change if you had to EARN the income required. .(Compared to those whom are born with a silver spoon in their mouth or believe philanthropy is "giving" away mommies and daddies hard earned money!)

What do I contend is even more important from my 51% point of view?

Although I believe a rate exceeding 40% of ANYONE's income is excessive what is appalling is how our government can WASTE money, like a damn kid in a candy store!

Nonetheless they fail to provide any allowance of the provisional distribution of said funds.

More specifically enabling the taxpayer to designate a certain percentage of their taxed income towards a particular government classification such as defense, AHCA, national debt etc.

Such a system could also encourage those taxed at "lower rates" to become more involved within the electorate and choose whether a particular candidate (with his pet project in mind) is deserving of THEIR MONEY!

So if the Feds are going to TAX us a such high rates at least provide some mechanism whereby the taxpayers have direct input about HOW and WHERE that money is spent! (20% of a particular return would seem reasonable, IMO)

Jim

 

[Dr JIM]

Sorry about the verbiage it's late!

 

[idmd]

And to think James that's Obama's just the "short list"!

I dearly hope Americans will learn a from the "lessons of the past" and choose NOT to elect a president whose political beliefs represents liberalisms far left next election.

Much of his agenda has approximated "class warfare" yet delivered in a covert manner.

Consequently many in the electorate "see" this veiled fiasco as the great "equalizer".

Recall pre-election Obama was propped as that president who will "level the playing field" in a more "equitable fashion" to ensure everyone pays "their fair share"!

Hmm let's see here, I paid taxes at a rate of 51% in 2012 (my an average "work week" of 65 hours excluding Meso lol).

So oh yea baby, I certainly believe the playing field should be "leveled".

Somehow however I suspect we (myself and Obama) aren't playing on the "same field" at all!

For those of you out there who believe a 50% tax rate is fair, I can almost promise you that opinion would change if you had to EARN the income required. .(Compared to those whom are born with a silver spoon in their mouth or believe philanthropy is "giving" away mommies and daddies hard earned money!)

What do I contend is even more important from my 51% point of view?

Although I believe a rate exceeding 40% of ANYONE's income is excessive what is appalling is how our government can WASTE money, like a damn kid in a candy store!

Nonetheless they fail to provide any allowance of the provisional distribution of said funds.

More specifically enabling the taxpayer to designate a certain percentage of their taxed income towards a particular government classification such as defense, AHCA, national debt etc.

Such a system could also encourage those taxed at "lower rates" to become more involved within the electorate and choose whether a particular candidate (with his pet project in mind) is deserving of THEIR MONEY!

So if the Feds are going to TAX us a such high rates at least provide some mechanism whereby the taxpayers have direct input about HOW and WHERE that money is spent! (20% of a particular return would seem reasonable, IMO)

Jim

Just got the bad news from the accountant. With all the personal deductions phasing out, getting whacked with ATM, my refinance on my mortgage to a ridiculously low interest rate and making a bit more I'm going to owe the man ~$30k MORE than I did last year. So guess what...I will be spending significantly less from now until April 2014 trying to come up with that tax money.

This will include holding off on a couple of projects that would've put money directly into the hands of some local contractors.

 

[BR1217]

The main problem is that a huge percentage of the population is on uncle sams payroll so they don't pay taxes and don't give a shit how much I pay in taxes. This has been the plan from the beginning and it has been successful to this point. The welfare class we have created actually believes they are entitled to free everything with zero regard for the working class. Very sad.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Diagnosis for Healthcare.gov: Unrealistic Technology Expectations
The website for the Affordable Care Act was doomed by an inordinately complex setup that tried to link disparate databases in real time.
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/521981/diagnosis-for-healthcaregov-unrealistic-technology-expectations/

The fiasco with the $600 million federal health insurance website wasn’t all bureaucratic. Forcing slow and disparate databases run by government and insurance companies to work together in real time—and then launching the service all at once—would have challenged even technology wunderkinds.

In particular, the project was doomed by a relatively late decision that required applicants to open an account and let the site verify their identity, residence, and income before they could browse for insurance. That meant the site would have to interface in real-time with databases maintained by the Internal Revenue Service and other agencies.

 

[Dr JIM]

Yes but your like me apparently Idster, only us "rich folk can afford" to pay those high tax rates!

Actually I think you should pay more in taxes, idster, providing of course your tax rate increase subsidizes my rate reduction!

That's Obamas perspective which certainly seems fair to those who receive, like me!

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Affordable Care Act, So Far, Seems Likely to Cost Less Than Expected
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/b...-seems-likely-to-cost-less-than-expected.html

WASHINGTON — The rollout of President Obama’s health care law may have deeply disappointed its supporters, but on at least one front, the Affordable Care Act is beating expectations: its cost.

Over the next few years, the government is expected to spend billions of dollars less than originally projected on the law, analysts said, with both the Medicaid expansion and the subsidies for private insurance plans ending up less expensive than anticipated.

Economists broadly agree that the sluggish economy remains the main reason that health spending has grown so slowly for the last half-decade. From 2007 to 2010, per-capita health care spending rose just 1.8 percent annually. Since then, the annual increase has slowed even further, to 1.3 percent. A decade ago, spending was growing at roughly 5 percent a year.

But even though the Affordable Care Act might be more a beneficiary of changes in health care spending than the primary driver of them, the law’s provisions to control costs could prove increasingly important as the economy improves, demand for health care increases and spending picks back up.

 

[james2012]

Affordable Care Act, So Far, Seems Likely to Cost Less Than Expected
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/b...-seems-likely-to-cost-less-than-expected.html

ROFLMAO!!! The New York Times is digging deep for this one. Anyone wanna bet on this. C'mon. 10 Grand bet, right here, right now. Any takers?

 

[james2012]

Just got the bad news from the accountant. With all the personal deductions phasing out, getting whacked with ATM, my refinance on my mortgage to a ridiculously low interest rate and making a bit more I'm going to owe the man ~$30k MORE than I did last year. So guess what...I will be spending significantly less from now until April 2014 trying to come up with that tax money.

This will include holding off on a couple of projects that would've put money directly into the hands of some local contractors.

Welcome to trickle down poverty. Obamanomics: When destroying an economy is something you just gotta do.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

A New Wave of Challenges to Health Law
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/03/u...-law.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes

WASHINGTON — More than a year after the Supreme Court upheld the central provision of President Obama’s health care overhaul, a fresh wave of legal challenges to the law is playing out in courtrooms as conservative critics — joined by their Republican allies on Capitol Hill — make the case that Mr. Obama has overstepped his authority in applying it.

A federal judge in the District of Columbia will hear oral arguments on Tuesday in one of several cases brought by states including Indiana and Oklahoma, along with business owners and individual consumers, who say that the law does not grant the Internal Revenue Service authority to provide tax credits or subsidies to people who buy insurance through the federal exchange.

At the same time, the House Judiciary Committee will convene a hearing to examine whether Mr. Obama is “rewriting his own law” by using his executive powers to alter it or delay certain provisions. The panel also will examine the legal theory behind the subsidy cases: that the I.R.S., and by extension, Mr. Obama, ignored the will of Congress, which explicitly allowed tax credits and subsidies only for those buying coverage through state exchanges.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Anti-Obamacare Doctors Drop Private Insurance To Fight 'Socialism'
Anti-Obamacare Doctors Drop Private Insurance To Fight 'Socialism'

 

[Michael Scally MD]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdcNLBfeTis]How We Pay for Obamacare: Healthcare Triage #6 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Health Care Exchange Is Vastly Improved, Users Say
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/10/u...rtner=socialflow&smid=tw-nytimesbusiness&_r=0

MIAMI — After two months of false starts, error messages and pleas for patience from the once-hobbled federal online health care exchange, Karen Egozi, the chief executive of the Epilepsy Foundation of Florida, watched on Monday as counselors navigated the website’s pages with relative ease.