About to TRT...advice, comfort and testimony?

[clearheaded]

makes sense, have you seen any literature on that? I believe testes are more sensitive to total shut down as physically get smaller, I could be wrong but hcg does not cause "shut down"(long term) similarly to HGH doesn't cause shutdown in an extreme way like testes, although could be just sample bias, as more guys blast test than hgh, but also THINK its less of an issue and normal levels can recover and esp when dosages are low, as there is always "shut down" happening every day as u reach higher levels whatever hormone. ive HEARD desensitization from higher doses is the issue rather than "shut down" and why its used to get people off test...

that being said, no free lunch... ur levels are good anyway so no real reason to mess around... could do dhea or cortisol check aswell as vitamin d and b panel. may be able to squeeze out some more energy. forget if mentioned sleep quality changing at all? do you snore? I know several people in 50s got a Cpap and were outright amazed how much energy they have now that they aren't suffocating at night... maybe you dont snore at all but I imagine with such high test your snore like a real man.....

 

[pierrebobin]

Where did you read that i said HCG was a good idea for you?

nowhere !
You even said the same thing i did about HCG down regulation
Welle today's huge good news is a finally found an endocrinologist that said to me "i have patients like you. We need some more labs. i can do smthg for you".
Such a relief.
Will keep u posted

 

[pierrebobin]

hello
i had my appointment with a endocrinologist.
GOOD NEWS :
- she is aware of the research and thinks i am hypogonadal in spite of my 600 totalT (cause my freeT i too low)
- she gave me presciption of test enanthate and we will check blood tests in 4 months
BAD NEWS :
- she is a bit controling (so am i) and wanted to give me one injection every 3 weeks... i challenged her on the 4,5 days half-life of enanthate... she agreed to put me on 200mg every two weeks.
- i have a prescription of 1 ampule of 250mg every two weeks.
As for now i think i will try this protocole, and see what happens.

I think she is very conservative in terms of numbers, so i will do my labs 2 weeks after the last injection and not 1 week...so my numbers will be a bit lower and she will adjust on the upper side. I don't want to feel restrained by her good will and want to feel free to find MY sweet spot in terms of symptom resolution.
Even though social security and health care works, it still will be more expensive than UGL so...

Those number worries are nothing compare to the relief i feel.
I DO HAVE A CONDITION, it has a name, it has a cure, i am not mistaken, or crazy, or lazy, or depressed, i just lack hormones.
God bless this forum and the Docs i follow on internet...
Thanks for your time buddies

 

[Exhortae]

hello
i had my appointment with a endocrinologist.
GOOD NEWS :
- she is aware of the research and thinks i am hypogonadal in spite of my 600 totalT (cause my freeT i too low)
- she gave me presciption of test enanthate and we will check blood tests in 4 months
BAD NEWS :
- she is a bit controling (so am i) and wanted to give me one injection every 3 weeks... i challenged her on the 4,5 days half-life of enanthate... she agreed to put me on 200mg every two weeks.
- i have a prescription of 1 ampule of 250mg every two weeks.
As for now i think i will try this protocole, and see what happens.

I think she is very conservative in terms of numbers, so i will do my labs 2 weeks after the last injection and not 1 week...so my numbers will be a bit lower and she will adjust on the upper side. I don't want to feel restrained by her good will and want to feel free to find MY sweet spot in terms of symptom resolution.
Even though social security and health care works, it still will be more expensive than UGL so...

Those number worries are nothing compare to the relief i feel.
I DO HAVE A CONDITION, it has a name, it has a cure, i am not mistaken, or crazy, or lazy, or depressed, i just lack hormones.
God bless this forum and the Docs i follow on internet...
Thanks for your time buddies

With one injection every 2 weeks you will be lower than 600.

You need to fix probably your shbg.

Why did you go to a woman ?

 

[pierrebobin]

With one injection every 2 weeks you will be lower than 600.

You need to fix probably your shbg.

Why did you go to a woman ?

I know every 2 weeks is not optimal with enanthate.
I chose her cause the other ones ""don't believe"" in freeT...
I "saw" her on skype so...hard to get the feeling of who she is,
but thought of ways to get to WHERE i want to be and forget about the "good numbers" if i feel restrained by HER ideal dosage (cause i can always inject LESS... ) :
- i'll take a lower dose 3 weeks before the lab test
- i'll do the lab test 14 days after last shot and not 7 like she wants
I'm confident overall
did my first shot today...subcut...1ml... easy, painless.
i am so happy cause i've been struggling and researching and doing tests for 2 years now.

 

[Exhortae]

I know every 2 weeks is not optimal with enanthate.
I chose her cause the other ones ""don't believe"" in freeT...
I "saw" her on skype so...hard to get the feeling of who she is,
but thought of ways to get to WHERE i want to be and forget about the "good numbers" if i feel restrained by HER ideal dosage (cause i can always inject LESS... ) :
- i'll take a lower dose 3 weeks before the lab test
- i'll do the lab test 14 days after last shot and not 7 like she wants
I'm confident overall
did my first shot today...subcut...1ml... easy, painless.
i am so happy cause i've been struggling and researching and doing tests for 2 years now.

If you don’t want to follow your doctor advice i would look for another or go the ugl route (that’s what I did)

Buy 3 vials have them tested and you are good to go

 

[pierrebobin]

Just to keep up and thank guys here
Have been on TRT 250mg every 2 weeks
Life changing
Like many : only regret is not to have started 5 years ago
Only side effect is orgasm a bit longer/harder to come,
but... not a side effect for everybody

 

[LW64]

The Free T lab test was, is, and will likely always be, total horseshit.

Your Free T, as per your first post, is below normal.

The normal Free T range in the calculator below is 10 to 25 ng/dL.

At 7.65 ng/dL, you were not even close.

Your SHBG at 70 is quite high for a 51 year old. I didnt really need to use the calculator to know your Free T would be below normal.

Any reason why your SHBG is elevated?

 

[Xilence7]

Boron might help you by lowering SHBG - which will increase your free T, which is the most important value.

I see you already started TRT, but 6 or 9mg per day raised my free T for 30%, 2 weeks on 1 week off

 

[Baby Gains]

Hi guys,
have a drink, it's a long one.
I'm 51 and have been a weightlifting lover for 37 years, yes sir
I NEVER smoked, never drank, never took drugs.
I always ate organic, pretty balanced, have a stressless life in the country, and i am rather active,
with the weighlifting 3 times a week, my part time job and i love working outdoors on the garden.
I love it BUT, for about...1 to 2 years my stamina, ability to recover, PLEASURE when weightlifting have crashed.
Today i can only work half a day, i am VERY tired the day after a big session of squat...it really sucks.
Don't know if it's the chicken or the egg but my mood is low..."since" i can't do what i love : sports and beeing active.
According to my friends and family, my NRJ levels also seem too low.
I probably am going through a mid-life crisis, am less willing to go out with friends but, less interested in women/sex...
So i went to my Doc and had a FULL check.
All organs had a scan, X-rays here and there, all the lab test you can name, liver, heart, kidneys : EVERYTHING is fine says my Doc.
My heart, blood pressure and lipids are excellent...no vitamins or mineral deficiencies.
Total test around 600ng/dl
SHBG 70
Free 16pg/ml tested wit RIA (radio immuno analysis)
TSH, oestradiol, igf1, HGH and all those makers are OK.
Neither my Doc nor the 2 endocrinologists i saw want to put me on TRT
According to Dr Morgentaler (a bir PRO TRT), my freeT levels are right at the bottom range : he does NOT start TRT on patients unless
they have a freeT than lower than 15pg/ml (RIA...my case...i'm 16) or 100 (equilibrium analysis).
Sex drive is average...sleep is average...mood is low...very irritable...fat is adding on and it is really hard to loose it,
and when i do the muscles go away with it. Is THIS is aging, i don't like it.
Strength is going away too...very happy whan i can full squat 200 pounds 10 times.
I could do 30 of those 5 years ago.
So...UGL TRT sounds great to me.
But i am scared :
- of beeing dependant upon a substance
- that it would not change my problems, only adding beeing dependant if my HPTA shuts down.
Probably spent 1000 hours listening Dr rand, Touliatos, O'Connor, GilT, Schippen, Ruterbush, Hertoghe, Morgentaler and Co
and i still CAN'T decide...is TRT a good choice in my case?
Thanks for reading and giving your perspective on this issue

I'm 52. I was very athletic and did weight training in my youth. I unfortunately led a very unhealthy lifestyle between 23 and 43. During those years I worked on lobster boats, construction, and architectural salvage of post and beam structures. Very hard work. I was able to quit drugs and smoking and start up in the gym. in my mid 40's I started with testosterone creme and my T level went from 200 to around 650, and it definitely helped. At a certain point though, both emotionally and physically I felt drained. So I made the lifetime commitment of HRT though my local clinic. My dose started at 140 the first year, then 160, and now 180. After about a year at 180 a week my highest level T is around 850 when I get bloodwork before an injection, so I imagine I sit at 1000 or more at times. I take a type of HCG, and Anastrozole keeps my estrogen in check.
I found that as I became more energized and had better recovery, it became necessary to eat as well as I could, sleep enough, and be as active as I could to maintain a normal blood pressure. I've done TRT add ons as well, and they are absolutely amazing. In short, there are only a few basic things I needed to consider. 1. A lifetime commitment 2. Symptoms will be dose dependent 3. You are going to like it, and the way you feel and perform 4. Consistent scheduled bloodwork, and regular blood pressure checks are a must for a lifetime 5. Make sure the source of injectable product is from a prescription from a doctor.
I personally would never look back. I think that living the best you can, for as long as you can, is probably the best thing anyone can do for themselves. When I'm much older I'll probably lower my dose to where I'm most comfortable. It's a lifetime commitment for sure for me, and for most people as well. It can help a lot. Everyone reacts a little bit differently at specific doses, and having a real interest in your blood work can be life changing and informative. Hope this helps!

 

[Ghoul]

You've listened to O'conner. Then you know the numbers are limited in what they can tell. It's about how the *man feels*.

Stop messing around, Get a few
vials of Test Cyp 250 and and AI just in case.

Take 200mg as 2x 100mg 3.5 days apart, and after 6 weeks tell me it hasn't changed your life.

You will *never* go back to being an old man after what you experience. It will save your life.

This is being over complicated and you're going down too many side roads.

Dithering is a low-T characteristic.

 

[Hsiwuoyemanyna]

“Dithering is a low-T characteristic”

Indeed! I never used to go back and forth. I thought about something and then I acted. The older I get, the more I “think” about doing things and the less I actually do. I can spend months considering some action that would have taken me a day to execute.

Fuck the dithering. I may need to increase my test lol

 

[Vajfan]

It still amazes me how out of touch endos and urologists are with proper TRT/HRT protocol. The worst ones are the ones with egos too.

 

[clearheaded]

It still amazes me how out of touch endos and urologists are with proper TRT/HRT protocol. The worst ones are the ones with egos too.

lol says the guy with how many years of college and worked with how many patients, and went to how many medical conferences specifically for HRT? just because they dont want to put everyone on 200mg a week doesn't mean there stupid.. they know that 10% will need meds to control blood pressure another 15-20% for lipids and probably a separate 15% will have issues dialing in and another 10-20% will quit due to sides and not feeling good. ADDERAL makes people feel better and function better loose weight etc, do u want Dr to RX that more too?

 

[Vajfan]

lol says the guy with how many years of college and worked with how many patients, and went to how many medical conferences specifically for HRT? just because they dont want to put everyone on 200mg a week doesn't mean there stupid.. they know that 10% will need meds to control blood pressure another 15-20% for lipids and probably a separate 15% will have issues dialing in and another 10-20% will quit due to sides and not feeling good. ADDERAL makes people feel better and function better loose weight etc, do u want Dr to RX that more too?

I’m not sure what part you missed but, there isn’t a single member here including endos, urologists, members with 25+ years of experience etc that would recommend a TRT protocol of 1 test E shot every 3 weeks. The levels wouldn’t be stable, it would be pointless. Explain to me why that would be be a good protocol.

 

[clearheaded]

I’m not sure what part you missed but, there isn’t a single member here including endos, urologists, members with 25+ years of experience etc that would recommend a TRT protocol of 1 test E shot every 3 weeks. The levels wouldn’t be stable, it would be pointless. Explain to me why that would be be a good protocol.

tried and tested and how its SUPPOST to be RX(ie they cover there butts), it offers time of LOW as is natural... instead of low in evening low for several days. this gives time body to rest, lowers issues with hematocrit, lipids, BP etc.

not sure why people think its healthy to run at PEAK levels 24/7.. blood tests are in the morning for a reason so cant compare TRT levels to normal PEAK levels as young men with high T drop to 400 or so in the evening but 800-900 for a few hours in the morning..

90% of people FEEL better on upper range, but that doesn't mean its healthy. just like 90% of people FEEL better on MORE opiates or Adderal, doesn't mean its smart.

again, my point stands. if want frequent injections you need lower weekly dose if want to actually optimize ur health and health span.

anyway, im not saying its BEST but there is purpose for it and what the studies tested for safety etc.

 

[pierrebobin]

tried and tested and how its SUPPOST to be RX(ie they cover there butts), it offers time of LOW as is natural... instead of low in evening low for several days. this gives time body to rest, lowers issues with hematocrit, lipids, BP etc.

not sure why people think its healthy to run at PEAK levels 24/7.. blood tests are in the morning for a reason so cant compare TRT levels to normal PEAK levels as young men with high T drop to 400 or so in the evening but 800-900 for a few hours in the morning..

90% of people FEEL better on upper range, but that doesn't mean its healthy. just like 90% of people FEEL better on MORE opiates or Adderal, doesn't mean its smart.

again, my point stands. if want frequent injections you need lower weekly dose if want to actually optimize ur health and health span.

anyway, im not saying its BEST but there is purpose for it and what the studies tested for safety etc.

I agree
I am on 250 TestE every 2 weeks and i feel fine
Maybe a bit low NRJ on the last 3 days, but maybe it's my mind playing tricks on me cause sometimes i don't notice it.
LIFE CHANGING and it has been 2+ years
Big thanks to you guys here who helped me decide to TRT