About to start HRT

[One]

I am 27 and my Testerone tested at 320ng/dl. My doctor has prescribed me with Androgel for low testosterone. ~5mg of testosterone is effectively absorbed from each 50mg daily patch. It is my understanding that this level of testosterone is far lower than one would use in an AS steroid cycle. The goal of this Androgel is simply to bring my testosterone levels into the normal male range.

Would this HRT likely effect mass or strength gains in the gym? If so, to what degree?

Should I modify my diet or training in any way because of the HRT?

Is there any need to cycle this low a dosage?

Is there anything else you would recommend?

 

[Carlito]

A friend of mine started HRT at age 30 and he is 32 now, even though his doc advice on using the patch he convinced to do the injection so he started with 200mg of test cyp every two weeks for I believ 5 months and then taking a break, anyways my buddy has reduced abdominal fat and increased lean body mass, not as much and as quick as a regular AAS cycle but his progress is pretty decent, I think it willl be better if you get the injection instead of the gel. Good Luck!

 

[One]

I think it willl be better if you get the injection instead of the gel. Good Luck!

Thanks for the information. Why do you think injections would be superior to the gel. I would expect the gel to more closely mimic natural hormone levels and cause fewer fluctuations since it is applied at the same time each day. I would expect the injections to offer more consistent delivery, a greater maximum possible increase in T, and less delivery issues (smell, irritation, transfer, etc.).

 

[ENDRO]

Thanks for the information. Why do you think injections would be superior to the gel. I would expect the gel to more closely mimic natural hormone levels and cause fewer fluctuations since it is applied at the same time each day. I would expect the injections to offer more consistent delivery, a greater maximum possible increase in T, and less delivery issues (smell, irritation, transfer, etc.).

you can try the 5mg patch and you may get a little more labido but you will see no real change at the gym as far as strength or muscle gain.
I agree inj is the only way to go.

 

[One]

you can try the 5mg patch and you may get a little more labido but you will see no real change at the gym as far as strength or muscle gain. I agree inj is the only way to go.

One frequently quoted study about Adrogel involved 227 hypogonadal men (defined as T under 300ng/dl). They took several different doses of Androgel. After 90 days, the 5G group had gained an average of 2.8lb LBM and the 10G group had gained 6.0lb LBM. The 5G group had lost an average of 2.0lb fat and the 10G group 2.2lb fat. The study described at http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/8/2839 does not mention any kind of training program (although muscle strength was tested at three points within the 180 day period), suggesting that muscle gains would be more extreme if they were going to the gym on a regular basis. T levels had increased to a mean steady state value of ~550ng/dl in the 5G group and ~700ng/dl in the 10G group.

You imply that injections are superior to the gel because they result in greater strength and size gains. Would the greater gains simply be a result of higher T levels or is it connected to the more extreme T fluctuations? If it is just greater T levels, then would a doctor adjust dosage with both the gel and the injections until the blood work showed desired T levels, resulting in similar effects?

 

[ENDRO]

One frequently quoted study about Adrogel involved 227 hypogonadal men (defined as T under 300ng/dl). They took several different doses of Androgel. After 90 days, the 5G group had gained an average of 2.8lb LBM and the 10G group had gained 6.0lb LBM. The 5G group had lost an average of 2.0lb fat and the 10G group 2.2lb fat. The study described at http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/85/8/2839 does not mention any kind of training program (although muscle strength was tested at three points within the 180 day period), suggesting that muscle gains would be more extreme if they were going to the gym on a regular basis. T levels had increased to a mean steady state value of ~550ng/dl in the 5G group and ~700ng/dl in the 10G group.

You imply that injections are superior to the gel because they result in greater strength and size gains. Would the greater gains simply be a result of higher T levels or is it connected to the more extreme T fluctuations? If it is just greater T levels, then would a doctor adjust dosage with both the gel and the injections until the blood work showed desired T levels, resulting in similar effects?

If doses are injected weekly there really is very little fluctuation in levels due to the half life is between 5-7 days with the use of test cyp or enth so gains are made through the higher t-levels.
You would have to talk to your doc to see how he would go about getting you to the desired level. If you are paying he might want to run multi blood tests if it is a HMO insurance paying i doubt it but again you have to ask.

 

[One]

If doses are injected weekly there really is very little fluctuation in levels due to the half life is between 5-7 days with the use of test cyp or enth so gains are made through the higher t-levels.
You would have to talk to your doc to see how he would go about getting you to the desired level. If you are paying he might want to run multi blood tests if it is a HMO insurance paying i doubt it but again you have to ask.

I have read that the half life of test cyp/ethanate is 12/10.5 days:
See http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-steroid-half-life.asp , http://www.british-bodybuilding.co.uk/Half_Life.shtml , etc.

Here is a graph of blood concentrations according to Schulte-Beerbuhl's research.

Androgel's daily applications produces more steady blood levels. See http://www.fda.gov/medwatch/SAFETY/2003/03SEP_PI/AndroGel_PI.pdf

 

[ievb4fun]

One main point... Testosterone cypionate and Testosterone enanthate DO NOT have the same half-life.

According to Upjohn's Depo-Testosterone (cypionate) insert (which I have right here), its half-life is 8 days with an active life of 16 days.

According to Schering's Testoviron (enanthate) insert, which is a b*tch to find and can only be found in a foreign language, its half-life is 4 days with an active life of 10-16 days.

I know that doesn't make sense, but apparently 90% of a dose of Enanthate acts with a 4 day half-life and the rest with a longer half-life extending the active life to 10-16 days.

http://www.schering.com.ar/index/Productos/Docs/rtestoviron.doc

Any study that uses the two interchangably should be looked upon with doubt.

I say give both a try and form a personal experience. I much prefer the injections... i like a weekly shot as opposed to everyday application. Plus in the States, you (legally) need a prescription for needles, which is an added bonus for the injectable.

 

[One]

Any study that uses the two interchangably should be looked upon with doubt..

I mentioned the two different half-lifes in my earlier post. Apparently our sources have different information. Perhaps they were using different definitions of the term "half-life" (active half-life vs. overall half-life). The referenced study is

Comparison of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone in serum after injection of testosterone enanthate of testosterone cypionate. by Schulte-Beerbuhl M, Nieschlag E. (1980)

It did not use testosterone enanthate and testosterone cypionate interchangably. It simply found very similar results between the two compounds. The author of the crude graph (was not the authors of the study) chose to combine the results into a single graph since they were so similar. Here are two more detailed graphs showing the differences:

Testosterone Cypionate
Invalid Embedded Image Removed

Testosterone Enanthate
Invalid Embedded Image Removed

 

[ENDRO]

I mentioned the two different half-lifes in my earlier post. Apparently our sources have different information. Perhaps they were using different definitions of the term "half-life" (active half-life vs. overall half-life). The referenced study is

Comparison of testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone in serum after injection of testosterone enanthate of testosterone cypionate. by Schulte-Beerbuhl M, Nieschlag E. (1980)

It did not use testosterone enanthate and testosterone cypionate interchangably. It simply found very similar results between the two compounds. The author of the crude graph (was not the authors of the study) chose to combine the results into a single graph since they were so similar. Here are two more detailed graphs showing the differences:

Testosterone Cypionate
Invalid Embedded Image Removed

Testosterone Enanthate
Invalid Embedded Image Removed

He is ref to the actual mfg litature that comes with the box.
there are many different studies that will tell you all kinds of different results like the one you posted about the 2 1/2 gain in muscle. If you read they say non of the study perticipants where asked if they had previous training exp.
Real easy to put on muscle if you had not touched a weight in a long time.
They didnt say anything about muscles filling out with water from the use of the test which will cause a weight gain and a much fuller look and a increase in strength.
you are going to half to decide what is right for you and what are you really looking for out of HRT if it is just muscle you are looking at a cycle much different beast.