A sober look at HGH

[AlexDavis43]

When I take testosterone I'm taking something that directly stimulates muscle protien synthesis.

That doesn't mean if it raises my blood pressure it doesn't work. That would be a side effect. Something to the side of the effect I want.

However raising my blood glucose is HGH working. It's the literal effect of the drug by stimulating FFA release and by increasing gluconeogenesis in the liver (and my reducing GLUT4 sensitivity in the muscle tissue).

Now you're saying because I can't manage this or don't like it somehow I'm not using the drug properly.

What I am saying is:
Given the effect of HGH is to create a diabetogenic state I don't see how the minor gain in anabolism justifies the risk for me.

It will do this to everyone. You can take drugs to offset this (polypharmacy), but in the end unless you have GH deficiency it will harm your health long term.

HGH is very profitable for these companies. If it had any use outside the very narrow scope it's being used for now they WOULD have pushed for it.

I'll drop it after this, because:

1) doesn't look like you're gonna budge on this topic;

2) it might appear like I'm telling people GH is healthy and everyone should take it like a vitamin. I'm absolutely not saying that.

3) I think GH for anti-aging is bullshit -- "game changer!" said by someone who started HRT around the same time they started GH, where TRT is obviously doing all the heavy lifting

First, this.

Yes, GH creates a diabetes-like phenotype. Not to be confused with a step toward actually developing T2D.

In the relevant context, insulin sensitivity is restored when you stop GH; the source you cited of kids being treated with GH, having insulin resistance post treatment was included as a throwaway line in their paper - no acknowledgment of confounding by the kids' underlying pathology; did they have insulin resistance before GH therapy too (untested)? How long after GH d/c was IR measured (not specified)? Besides being in a completely different context (GHD kids vs healthy adults), those questions are critical to support the notion that GH causes T2D.

Further, in comparison with actual type 2 diabetes, one of the better theories (imo) of the cause, which explains T2D in both obese and lean people, is energy toxicity & personal fat threshold

Both skinny people & fat people with T2D have fatty liver; fat people without diabetes don't have fatty liver; there are not many exceptions to the fatty liver → T2D link

GH treatment reduces fatty liver

Yes you get high blood glucose readings but this is different from the underlying pathophysiology of T2D

:::end rant:::

 

[AlexDavis43]

I'll drop it after this, because:

1) doesn't look like you're gonna budge on this topic;

2) it might appear like I'm telling people GH is healthy and everyone should take it like a vitamin. I'm absolutely not saying that.

3) I think GH for anti-aging is bullshit -- "game changer!" said by someone who started HRT around the same time they started GH, where TRT is obviously doing all the heavy lifting

First, this.

Yes, GH creates a diabetes-like phenotype. Not to be confused with a step toward actually developing T2D.

In the relevant context, insulin sensitivity is restored when you stop GH; the source you cited of kids being treated with GH, having insulin resistance post treatment was included as a throwaway line in their paper - no acknowledgment of confounding by the kids' underlying pathology; did they have insulin resistance before GH therapy too (untested)? How long after GH d/c was IR measured (not specified)? Besides being in a completely different context (GHD kids vs healthy adults), those questions are critical to support the notion that GH causes T2D.

Further, in comparison with actual type 2 diabetes, one of the better theories (imo) of the cause, which explains T2D in both obese and lean people, is energy toxicity & personal fat threshold

Both skinny people & fat people with T2D have fatty liver; fat people without diabetes don't have fatty liver; there are not many exceptions to the fatty liver → T2D link

GH treatment reduces fatty liver

Yes you get high blood glucose readings but this is different from the underlying pathophysiology of T2D

:::end rant:::

Also came across this, where insulin sensitivity upon discontinuation of GH was assessed directly (albeit at only 1 time point: 6 months later)

3-7 IU/d GH treatment for 6 years, insulin sensitivity returned to normal (link)

It was kids born small for gestation age, treated on average from 6 to 12 years old; so different context / grain of salt etc

 

[Sampei]

Thanks for commenting Sampei I always enjoy reading your posts.

Everyone responds differently. My igf1 got that high on 2iu of HGH per day. I guess it's individual sensitivity.

Glad it's working for you.

I would never walk around for long period of time with an igf1 of 500+ so yes in your case I wouldn't use HGH at all.

I use the dosage I do because my igf1, increase is very low and I enjoy the side benefit without having a massive igf1 and the risk associated with is.

As I said, everyone need to tailor their drug usages and dosage around their individual response.

 

[kegg408]

Im running it with reta to help rhe insulin issue.

Im testing next week to see where 3iu lands my igf1 and will get fasting insulin and glucose done at the same time.

 

[kesda]

Banana.... thanks for starting this thread. As someone new to using hgh, it's been a good, mostly civil debate on the dangers vs benefits of taking hgh. Learning a lot from this from both sides of the argument, and I appreciate the discussion. I'm nearing a month on 3ius taken mainly for health benefits as I just turned 50, and anxiously awaiting an igf 1 test to see if my ginormous head is at risk of getting even ginormous-r. If so, going to have a whole pile of wasted hgh that I won't be continuing to use. But so far, nothing of note save for a little finger tingling at night, but glucose levels haven't reacted that much thankfully.

 

[bananafeet]

Banana.... thanks for starting this thread. As someone new to using hgh, it's been a good, mostly civil debate on the dangers vs benefits of taking hgh. Learning a lot from this from both sides of the argument, and I appreciate the discussion. I'm nearing a month on 3ius taken mainly for health benefits as I just turned 50, and anxiously awaiting an igf 1 test to see if my ginormous head is at risk of getting even ginormous-r. If so, going to have a whole pile of wasted hgh that I won't be continuing to use. But so far, nothing of note save for a little finger tingling at night, but glucose levels haven't reacted that much thankfully.

If you want a mostly positive take on HGH search up @Ghoul 's posts.

I'm kinda cynical...

 

[kegg408]

Banana.... thanks for starting this thread. As someone new to using hgh, it's been a good, mostly civil debate on the dangers vs benefits of taking hgh. Learning a lot from this from both sides of the argument, and I appreciate the discussion. I'm nearing a month on 3ius taken mainly for health benefits as I just turned 50, and anxiously awaiting an igf 1 test to see if my ginormous head is at risk of getting even ginormous-r. If so, going to have a whole pile of wasted hgh that I won't be continuing to use. But so far, nothing of note save for a little finger tingling at night, but glucose levels haven't reacted that much thankfully.

Im on 3iu as well
43 years old. Im getting igf1 fasting insulin and glucose checked next week.

Pretty sure it takes years of supraphysiologic levels to start growing the head. Organs grow faster from my understanding. And even then it take high igf1 levels as well.

Id love to run it indefinitely but I won't.