A sober look at HGH

[bananafeet]

Some more data:

Two mice models of liver IGF-I deficiency, in which body growth
remained unaltered challenged the somatomedin hypothesis that
circulating IGF-I levels mediated by GH secretion are the principal effectors of body growth. These results pointed out the importance of
autocrine/paracrine IGF-I secretion in extrahepatic tissues to mediate
growth. These data may be also interpreted to suggest that IGF-I may
function alone in certain tissues, whereas it may mediate the effects of GH in other tissues as in bone. As we mentioned earlier, gene targeting studies of the IGF-I system in skeletal muscle have clearly shown the role of skeletal muscle IGF-I and its receptor in mediating proliferation and differentiation as well as anabolic actions. Since GH binding in skeletal muscle cells has been very difficult to assess46, it may be possible that the autocrine/paracrine effects of IGF-I and its receptor are exerted in a GH-independent manner.

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GH is primarily an anabolic hormone and in skeletal muscle it induces
positive nitrogen balance and protein synthesis. Treatment with GH
reduces fat mass and increases lean body weight by enhancing protein
synthesis, with no effect on protein degradation. In elderly patients,
rhGH treatment had similar effects. Infusion of GH, IGF-I, and insulin into the forearm showed that GH and IGF-I increased amino acid uptake, whereas IGF-I and insulin, but not GH, inhibited amino acid release.
Moreover, IGF-I is capable of inhibiting proteolysis. Although there is no consensus as to whether IGF-I may or may not mediate the effects of GH on nitrogen balance and protein synthesis in muscle, these studies strongly support the suggestion that many of the anabolic effects of GH in muscle may be IGF-I dependent. GH has a lipolytic action on fat and muscle. Acute GH administration causes a rise in the levels of circulating FFAs and glycerol by inhibition of lipoprotein lipase. Long-term effects of GH include decreased deposition of fat and increased fat mobilization. The acute insulin-like activity of GH on carbohydrate metabolism has been seen both in vitro and in vivo and is independent of both IGF-I and insulin. GH-induced tyrosine phosphorylation of ERS-1 and/or IRS-2 may be responsible for this effect.
Prolonged GH stimulation also enhances hepatic gluconeogenesis and
glycogenolysis, resulting ultimately in hyperglycemia. This inhibitory effect on insulin activity may be indirectly caused by the GH-induced lipolysis and elevated plasma FFA levels that inhibit insulin activity at its target tissues

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Source: The Growth Hormone/Insulin-Like Growth Factor Axis during Development

TLDR they made mice with low circulating IGF1 and they still grew muscle just fine.....

TLDR HGH is anabolic in skeletal muscle but it hasn't been established if this is caused by HGH itself or IGF1.

 

[RockyP]

End of the day Golden era guys did not use insulin and GH. Dorian / Nasser and forward did / do. GH is absolutely not necessary for most recreational PED users. It has become popular without people reading the fine print (and certainly no endocrinology textbooks). We live in a time / culture where people inject themselves and then ask questions later. Due diligence is critical.

 

[Billbo98]

I love this convo.

My experiences are as follows. HGH use I can confidently say has made me hold onto and even actually gain some muscle mass while in a very steep calorie deficit and being off test completely on only HCG for a fertility protocol. Like mentioned for others can definitely tell it keeps me fuller rather than being flat as hell when really depleted and I feel it also has helped my sleep a lot. I also think that I permanently altered my systemic igf1 because before ever touching it and on clomid and HCG my igf1 was in the 100s then I came off clomid completely on HCG solo with HGH at 2iu 5 days a week and it put me in the mid 300s 5iu put me in the high 500s and could definitely tell a difference all while still in a steep deficit and then came off HGH completely for 3 months and tested igf1 and it was in the 300s.

My a1c has always been good as I was taking Berberine regularly and not eating bad. EVEN on 1000mg Metformin ER Hgh still keeps my systemic IGF1 way outside ref range (5iu EOD = 500s)

Long story short I have absolutely no negatives from using it the past 2 years regularly and will use it forever or as long as possible because personally even though “systemic igf1 doesnt equate to muscle growth or anabolism” crowd exists I feel like personally witness that it does when my igf1 is shit my lifts and physique and strength was shit. When it’s in range or outside I feel great.

 

[Billbo98]

The biggest negative I’ve noticed is HGH makes me RBC high when they usually aren’t because that’s what it helps do. I keep iron low/ medium and ferritin low/medium and platelets low/medium to ensure clotting risks are down by Nattokinase, IP6 and daily pantoprazole

 

[bananafeet]

I love this convo.

My experiences are as follows. HGH use I can confidently say has made me hold onto and even actually gain some muscle mass while in a very steep calorie deficit and being off test completely on only HCG for a fertility protocol. Like mentioned for others can definitely tell it keeps me fuller rather than being flat as hell when really depleted and I feel it also has helped my sleep a lot. I also think that I permanently altered my systemic igf1 because before ever touching it and on clomid and HCG my igf1 was in the 100s then I came off clomid completely on HCG solo with HGH at 2iu 5 days a week and it put me in the mid 300s 5iu put me in the high 500s and could definitely tell a difference all while still in a steep deficit and then came off HGH completely for 3 months and tested igf1 and it was in the 300s.

My a1c has always been good as I was taking Berberine regularly and not eating bad. EVEN on 1000mg Metformin ER Hgh still keeps my systemic IGF1 way outside ref range (5iu EOD = 500s)

Long story short I have absolutely no negatives from using it the past 2 years regularly and will use it forever or as long as possible because personally even though “systemic igf1 doesnt equate to muscle growth or anabolism” crowd exists I feel like personally witness that it does when my igf1 is shit my lifts and physique and strength was shit. When it’s in range or outside I feel great.

Oh no I don't fall into any crowd. It's permissive for anabolism at least.

My real point is. I've been on this forum and no one has mentioned:
1. Inflammatory cytokine and CRP rise when HGH administered to a stressed body
2. Permanent kidney and liver damage
3. Guaranteed short term insulin resistance and hyperglycemia
4. Risk of permanent type 2 diabetes

Every single damn post is like it's some kind of miracle drug the government doesn't want us to have. It's pretty shit in my experience.

 

[RockyP]

Oh no I don't fall into any crowd. It's permissive for anabolism at least.

My real point is. I've been on this forum and no one has mentioned:
1. Inflammatory cytokine and CRP rise when HGH administered to a stressed body
2. Permanent kidney and liver damage
3. Guaranteed short term insulin resistance and hyperglycemia
4. Risk of permanent type 2 diabetes

Every single damn post is like it's some kind of miracle drug the government doesn't want us to have. It's pretty shit in my experience.

You’re not alone. Several top professionals have been underwhelmed by GH and / or didn’t like the look it gave them. Evan Centopanni and Kevin Levrone in particular.

 

[Billbo98]

Oh no I don't fall into any crowd. It's permissive for anabolism at least.

My real point is. I've been on this forum and no one has mentioned:
1. Inflammatory cytokine and CRP rise when HGH administered to a stressed body
2. Permanent kidney and liver damage
3. Guaranteed short term insulin resistance and hyperglycemia
4. Risk of permanent type 2 diabetes

Every single damn post is like it's some kind of miracle drug the government doesn't want us to have. It's pretty shit in my experience.

lol I feel you. Like I mentioned I have had 0 issues with HS-CRP, CMP and A1C or BG. The only issue I’ve had recently was elevated Trigs because I ate like shit over the holidays and got labs pulled but my LDL was in the 60s and ApoB was great so I didn’t care.

 

[Scooby69]

I've had some personal experiences using HGH that included getting a relatively high IGF1 level on a low dose (2iu).

However I found it made me prediabetic. It's fair enough that I carry too much bodyfat to ever be called a bodybuilder but I'm not finding any positives with this drug.

Is this just a big circle jerk?

I mean this is from a text book on HGH:

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This is the interesting part:

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The only logical reason I can think of why HGH would be anabolic in bodybuilders is because it's causing hyperinsulinemia which effectively blocks all muscle catabolic processes. The concurrent rise in IGF1 is then used to overcome the peripheral insulin resistance and is directly anabolic (systemically).

But then again large circulating amounts of IGF1 will make everything grow. In response to resistance training local IGF1 levels increase, this is independent of serum levels....

Unless you have low levels of IGF1 I don't see the point. The acute and direct effect of HGH is anti-insulin and diabetogenic.

I sometimes wonder if it will sell at all if it was called "Human Sleep Hormone".

In the sick patients given HGH it raised acute-phase proteins:

Source: Acute-phase protein - Wikipedia

Sounds yummy.

Source:
WILLIAMS TEXTBOOK OF ENDOCRINOLOGY FIFTEENTH EDITION

It is well known that HGH is diabetogenic, but be careful about extending observations in critically ill patients to normal healthy individuals.

 

[bananafeet]

It is well known that HGH is diabetogenic, but be careful about extending observations in critically ill patients to normal healthy individuals.

I agree. But steroids are used in critical Ill patients with no issues.

Anadrol, Anavar, nandralone etc

They don't amplify the acute phase response to inflammation and are anti inflammatory in nature.

I'm pretty sure during a contest prep many bodybuilders would be in a closer state to an Ill person than to a healthy one.

 

[The Answ3r]

I jumped on the HGH hype train back in the day and now my fridge is loaded, both ugl and pharma like Seros and Headon. It’s literally chilling next to the eggs.

So quitting isn’t really on the table. At this point I’m just trying to “use inventory responsibly.” I still remember when GH was being sold as the Holy Grail of everything. Youth, recovery, fat loss, enlightenment… so of course I bought in.

And because I clearly don’t learn, I also jumped on the SS-31 hype. So now my “health phase” looks like this: Test E 250, GH 2iu, SS-31 5mg, Reta 6mg, Epitalon 5mg for 20 days. Basically a longevity starter pack. We’re about to be optimized and feel like a million bucks… or at least convince ourselves we do.

Alright, that was a tangent. Back to it.

 

[Scooby69]

Lol on the health state of the contest prep BB comment.

I don't understand the rationale of the steroid comparison. Steroids are a completely different drug class with a completely different mechanism and a completely different adverse effect profile.

HGH isn't the fountain of youth. And it is certainly isn't the equivalent to AAS. It has its uses, but needs to be used responsibly. Just like AAS or other drugs.

Williams Endocrinology is a great textbook. It's a different subject matter, but check out Goodman and Gilman if you ever need a Pharmacology textbook. It's the bible of Pharmacology.