I have reached a point where I disagree with steroid use in many, and due to underlying principles. I have been exactly where you are and plateaued in my attemp to restore my fitness right about where you have.
You are a classic - ME. Your excessive body fat is causing too much estrogen aromatiztion that cannot begin to be quantified by a single SERUM COUNT. Research some of my posts on this. The workout and diet have got you about as far as I did, however, you have reached a point where the remaining excess estrogen has limited your success (and probably you diet and time in the gym). Make no mistake. As an adult, if you eat in excess of 2000 calories you are gonna stay fat as the human body is a WORK MACHINE that requires many miles or work per day.
Serms and AI's, IMO, will get you nowhere in the long run as I suspect the body circumvents them to whatever extent is required to meet current demands. This WILL NOT SHOW IN SERUM COUNT EVEN IF NUMBER GO LOW. Serum count, IMO, is nothing more than ACTIVE BLOOD SURPLUS. Consider, how do you konw the actual count of hormones being exchanged? You dont. But you can bet they are.
Your gyno will be a problem till you have it surgically removed. I have found that ANY supplementation will activate and feed once in place. The SERM is the best bet to stave off growth otherwise. This tissue also has the propensity to metabolise Free T into estrogen, etc.. and I speculate at a good rate. Further, no one seems to know the lifespan of estrogens, and how far they go one once created at a receptor site (gyno, fat, etc..) to act on other receptors. (Does a pre-manufactured E2 molecule have a stronger propensity to find and stick with a receptor?, etc..)
I think there may be a lot to diet, BLOOD SUGAR & INSULIN, drugs on the liver, etc.. that impacts hormone metabolism significantly.
I see you hormonal issue as follows, you have maintained success to date based solely on work and diet as they relate to your previous weight. You are a one-eyed squirrel who could gather enough nuts to get so far, but now the lack of the other eye is causing loss to competition. The competition is now the estrogen more than even as the balance equalizes. (your efforts have to be slacking by now as well I suspect). Most likely WORK & diet have been the primary MODE to your success to date, and the hormones and drugs have been a VAST Overkill and hendrance not noted due to.
Consider this. Initially, Your body MAY HAVE limited TT production in order to protect from further estrogen based growth. The body is a DEMAND BASED ENVIRONMENT/MACHINE. So if TT was limited based on estrogens, then androgen receptors are left to suffer, and "just get by at best". So how much sythetic TT does it actually take to BE EFFECTIVE in countering this estrogen donminant starvation taking place? Not much.
The CYCLE can result in a VICIOUS outcome if left unacknowledged or addressed. This is the birth of today's LOW-T MALE. Imagine you are young and healthy. You get out of college and go to work no longer getting to the gym. As you get fat, estrogens will soon predominate. Your body says "whoa!", and shuts down TT production (as a top of the chain reaction). So now predominant estrogens (relative to intended physical genetic makeup) take control of supply remaining. You feel like shit and cant develop androgen based tissue readily. You check out of the gym early (on the day you actually found the time), go home and eat, and the muscles never got the work to create the demand. Now continue this cycle for years. FAT REMAINS AT LEAST THE SAME, but Androgen based tissue continues to dwindle. So now you are left with a body which supplies enough TT to feed REALLY predominating estrogen based tissues with EVEN LESS androgen based tissue to order a demand, or function normally. There has to be an effective curve with this as I am sure once estrogen tissues have a strong majority - they are going to snap up all the free T that comes along. The cycle continues till you are a fat helpless jellyroll, like me
. And now you are fucked in ways you can not even comprehend so any attempts to normalize fail quickly.
What is my solution? I have been down the TRT road (and much higher). I have PROVEN to myseft that the issue is infractructure demand and NOT SUPPLY. You can pour SynT in and get nothing once estrogens predominate. Nothing but bad that is. I am planning the following:
(1) No alcohol - as a calorie reduction primarily.
(2) To continue to refine the diet in a month moving to soft drinks out.
(3) I am going to make another run at TRT, but this time more logically. MORE IS NOT BETTER.
(4) I am planning a 200mg injection of cyp per month as a SUPPLEMENT. The human body metabolises a speculated amount of 7-10 mgs of TT per day. However, I believe this concept is based on measuring require supplementation in males castrated. So it does not account for SHRINKAGE. the figure may very well be half of this. The concept is to provide a STEADY TRICKLE of 1-3 mgs of TT per day over the month. This accomplishes the restoration of Estrogen bottlenecked TT production while NOT ALLOWING for excecssive amounts of TT for Estrogen armomatization. The ONLY WAY THIS WILL WORK is if you are exercising daily. You may find even more success in this method than the 200mgs per week, and you are not feeding an ESTROGEN INFERNO that is countering your productivity.
(5) AI's are useless as they work on the enzyme level. Estrogen
based tissue WILL GET FED REGARDLESS if you E2 level is 100, or 20. They will get it at the SAME RATE. Remember the tissue is the driving force at the point of the receptor. So with regard to AVAILABILITY of Free T to make hormonal conversions to estrogens OR ANDRGENS, again, the issue is not whether you measure 20 of them boucing aound the receptor, or 5000. ONE IS ALL IT NEEDS. Again, SERUM COUNTS ARE WORTHLESS.!!!
(6) As for your gyno. You will need to have that nipped out IMO. This is going nowhere. It may subside in fullness due to minimized estrogen/prolactin activity as a result on no homonal supping, or even an AI (as a vehicle to disrupt the Prolactive that is filling the tissue with male lactate). But the best way to protect from further breast development if you are not ready to have it cut out, is to use TAMOXIFEN (SERM). This will BLOCK the estrogen at the site. Still, I will limit my Monthly SynT to three month training intervals in order to limit the application of ancillary drugs (if Tamox does prove necessary at this dose and on this exercise regimen). You MAY need it for sure if significant gyno is in place.
(7) You also have to consider the implications of breast cancer in men. This is THE GREATEST oversight in steroid use as TRT that I could imagine. Consider even that in the past steroid use has been confined publicly to pro body builders who do not have enough estrogen to develop gyno (usually). The new wave of TRT for the "Low-T Male" is going to prove DISASTEROUS down the road - medically. As in short, all this new trend of treatment is goint to do is procreate an ENTIRE GENERATION OF BITCH TIT.... Who I fear will be suffering from breast cancer as early as their Sixties. I saw a study published here that stated the breast cancer rate in men with Nodules, gyno, or "bb's" present was 50% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are the next great social BETA TEST I fear, and release COMPLETELY UNEDUCATED, IGNORANT, and with ONE OF THE POOREST documented medical practices in a while at this SCALE....
HGH - My verdict is not in.. However, I would lean toward that LONG BEFORE IGF-1. This boils down to a concept I am working on as to whether the applcation of HGH can restore tissue at the MOST FUNDAMENTAL LEVELS, thus creating new healthy. VS suspected IFG-1 only thowing fuel on a fire of who knows what...
HCG - Worthless and a hindrance over all.
Anavar - Surely leading to the destruction of the esophagus in many I SUSPECT. LOL
Keep in mind. The REAL FIX for the low T male is the application of TRUE Finished product androgens, or a close as possible. THIS IS NOT WHAT TESTOSTERONE IS. I am not familiar enough with the other steroids available which may have this profile to speculate (tren, etc).. I am also unsure the negative co-effects that could result (side effect of other roids). You may NEVER see androgens prescribed on ANY LEVEL. I equate this to Adderall vs. the more strongly bonded amphetamines closer to METH, as speaking politically, not directly comparitively.
I think YOU are referring to using a testosterone cream. At 10% you are getting probably 5MGs per day. Still too much. But the furher issue there would be the direct application to adipose tissue (fat), moreso than an intramuscular application.
I am also considering pellet implants. Everyone I have seen using this has had GREAT SUCCESS in comparison to even IM TRT. or PATCHES/GELS. Its ALL going in the muscle and going MORE DIRECTLY to the intended tissue, IMO. You get the slow dispersion and not even an ester to worry with. Keep in mind a Cyp ester must probably go a good 2-4 weeks to stabilize and disperse steadily if injected properly. This is not an issue with creams. So I WOULD recommend you investigate pellet implants. But: Creams ='s skin>
='s BACK THROUGH THE FAT>
='s estrogen aromatization.
Again, a massive failure in modern medicine due to ignorance and lack of study.
PROP - Good ester for megadosing in BB. Not necessary.
TREN - Illegal, not necessary for OUR Goals, too many other complications. OUR fix is PRIMARILY IN LIFESTYLE AND DIET. A LITTLE SynT May not hurt to catch a ride on the way... Watch the Gyno and Use Tamox if it persist in minimal SynT application and you are not meriting surgey.
YOU ASKED. You got it. This if probably my most succinct conglomeration of OPINION that I have ever distribute and based on 5 solid years of person research - And thanks to THIS SITE has made it possible!
One Further note on SERM use to stimulate HPTA. I have come to suspect that the is no DIRECT Stimulation of TT production through SERM use. But an indirect stimulation serving iva the receptor blockage (antagonist) as a means to RESET predominating site affinity (andrgoen vs. estrogen), and also to stimulate HPTA via the actual agaonist effects in high muscle content males via the induced estrogenic activity at sites otherwise involved with adrogens as a result of excess androgen activity prolonged, thus re-triggering production. So I am not saying SERMS dont work to stimulate HPTA. I AM saying they do it by means of receptor interaction and not at the brain (as many think). I am also saying that a SERM RESET may be critical in high body fat LowT Males as a means to restoration. And effective in as little as two weeks total application from time to time. Anyone who wishes to argue this is welcome, Just show me where an elevated TT serum count give ANY indication of hormone metaboism rates (other than a slowdown, IMO), or show me where it is documented that the effect even in measured serum count can last more than a brief while. I feel the elevated TT counts, especially in Male BBs is a direct reflection of slowed ACTUAL TT Metabolism rates due to estrogenic activity resulting in receptors otherwise inudated and current involved with androgens, now blocked by drug induced estrogen control. I am still hypothesizing that one. So YES limited SERM use can also CORRECT receptor imbalances thus leading to a more natural hormone metabolism profile me thinks.
YES, I am going to turn this world UP SIDE DOWN...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The REST,,,,,,, IS all HORSE SHIT... IMO...
You are a classic - ME. Your excessive body fat is causing too much estrogen aromatiztion that cannot begin to be quantified by a single SERUM COUNT. Research some of my posts on this. The workout and diet have got you about as far as I did, however, you have reached a point where the remaining excess estrogen has limited your success (and probably you diet and time in the gym). Make no mistake. As an adult, if you eat in excess of 2000 calories you are gonna stay fat as the human body is a WORK MACHINE that requires many miles or work per day.
Serms and AI's, IMO, will get you nowhere in the long run as I suspect the body circumvents them to whatever extent is required to meet current demands. This WILL NOT SHOW IN SERUM COUNT EVEN IF NUMBER GO LOW. Serum count, IMO, is nothing more than ACTIVE BLOOD SURPLUS. Consider, how do you konw the actual count of hormones being exchanged? You dont. But you can bet they are.
Your gyno will be a problem till you have it surgically removed. I have found that ANY supplementation will activate and feed once in place. The SERM is the best bet to stave off growth otherwise. This tissue also has the propensity to metabolise Free T into estrogen, etc.. and I speculate at a good rate. Further, no one seems to know the lifespan of estrogens, and how far they go one once created at a receptor site (gyno, fat, etc..) to act on other receptors. (Does a pre-manufactured E2 molecule have a stronger propensity to find and stick with a receptor?, etc..)
I think there may be a lot to diet, BLOOD SUGAR & INSULIN, drugs on the liver, etc.. that impacts hormone metabolism significantly.
I see you hormonal issue as follows, you have maintained success to date based solely on work and diet as they relate to your previous weight. You are a one-eyed squirrel who could gather enough nuts to get so far, but now the lack of the other eye is causing loss to competition. The competition is now the estrogen more than even as the balance equalizes. (your efforts have to be slacking by now as well I suspect). Most likely WORK & diet have been the primary MODE to your success to date, and the hormones and drugs have been a VAST Overkill and hendrance not noted due to.
Consider this. Initially, Your body MAY HAVE limited TT production in order to protect from further estrogen based growth. The body is a DEMAND BASED ENVIRONMENT/MACHINE. So if TT was limited based on estrogens, then androgen receptors are left to suffer, and "just get by at best". So how much sythetic TT does it actually take to BE EFFECTIVE in countering this estrogen donminant starvation taking place? Not much.
The CYCLE can result in a VICIOUS outcome if left unacknowledged or addressed. This is the birth of today's LOW-T MALE. Imagine you are young and healthy. You get out of college and go to work no longer getting to the gym. As you get fat, estrogens will soon predominate. Your body says "whoa!", and shuts down TT production (as a top of the chain reaction). So now predominant estrogens (relative to intended physical genetic makeup) take control of supply remaining. You feel like shit and cant develop androgen based tissue readily. You check out of the gym early (on the day you actually found the time), go home and eat, and the muscles never got the work to create the demand. Now continue this cycle for years. FAT REMAINS AT LEAST THE SAME, but Androgen based tissue continues to dwindle. So now you are left with a body which supplies enough TT to feed REALLY predominating estrogen based tissues with EVEN LESS androgen based tissue to order a demand, or function normally. There has to be an effective curve with this as I am sure once estrogen tissues have a strong majority - they are going to snap up all the free T that comes along. The cycle continues till you are a fat helpless jellyroll, like me
. And now you are fucked in ways you can not even comprehend so any attempts to normalize fail quickly.What is my solution? I have been down the TRT road (and much higher). I have PROVEN to myseft that the issue is infractructure demand and NOT SUPPLY. You can pour SynT in and get nothing once estrogens predominate. Nothing but bad that is. I am planning the following:
(1) No alcohol - as a calorie reduction primarily.
(2) To continue to refine the diet in a month moving to soft drinks out.
(3) I am going to make another run at TRT, but this time more logically. MORE IS NOT BETTER.
(4) I am planning a 200mg injection of cyp per month as a SUPPLEMENT. The human body metabolises a speculated amount of 7-10 mgs of TT per day. However, I believe this concept is based on measuring require supplementation in males castrated. So it does not account for SHRINKAGE. the figure may very well be half of this. The concept is to provide a STEADY TRICKLE of 1-3 mgs of TT per day over the month. This accomplishes the restoration of Estrogen bottlenecked TT production while NOT ALLOWING for excecssive amounts of TT for Estrogen armomatization. The ONLY WAY THIS WILL WORK is if you are exercising daily. You may find even more success in this method than the 200mgs per week, and you are not feeding an ESTROGEN INFERNO that is countering your productivity.
(5) AI's are useless as they work on the enzyme level. Estrogen
based tissue WILL GET FED REGARDLESS if you E2 level is 100, or 20. They will get it at the SAME RATE. Remember the tissue is the driving force at the point of the receptor. So with regard to AVAILABILITY of Free T to make hormonal conversions to estrogens OR ANDRGENS, again, the issue is not whether you measure 20 of them boucing aound the receptor, or 5000. ONE IS ALL IT NEEDS. Again, SERUM COUNTS ARE WORTHLESS.!!!
(6) As for your gyno. You will need to have that nipped out IMO. This is going nowhere. It may subside in fullness due to minimized estrogen/prolactin activity as a result on no homonal supping, or even an AI (as a vehicle to disrupt the Prolactive that is filling the tissue with male lactate). But the best way to protect from further breast development if you are not ready to have it cut out, is to use TAMOXIFEN (SERM). This will BLOCK the estrogen at the site. Still, I will limit my Monthly SynT to three month training intervals in order to limit the application of ancillary drugs (if Tamox does prove necessary at this dose and on this exercise regimen). You MAY need it for sure if significant gyno is in place.
(7) You also have to consider the implications of breast cancer in men. This is THE GREATEST oversight in steroid use as TRT that I could imagine. Consider even that in the past steroid use has been confined publicly to pro body builders who do not have enough estrogen to develop gyno (usually). The new wave of TRT for the "Low-T Male" is going to prove DISASTEROUS down the road - medically. As in short, all this new trend of treatment is goint to do is procreate an ENTIRE GENERATION OF BITCH TIT.... Who I fear will be suffering from breast cancer as early as their Sixties. I saw a study published here that stated the breast cancer rate in men with Nodules, gyno, or "bb's" present was 50% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We are the next great social BETA TEST I fear, and release COMPLETELY UNEDUCATED, IGNORANT, and with ONE OF THE POOREST documented medical practices in a while at this SCALE....
HGH - My verdict is not in.. However, I would lean toward that LONG BEFORE IGF-1. This boils down to a concept I am working on as to whether the applcation of HGH can restore tissue at the MOST FUNDAMENTAL LEVELS, thus creating new healthy. VS suspected IFG-1 only thowing fuel on a fire of who knows what...
HCG - Worthless and a hindrance over all.
Anavar - Surely leading to the destruction of the esophagus in many I SUSPECT. LOL
Keep in mind. The REAL FIX for the low T male is the application of TRUE Finished product androgens, or a close as possible. THIS IS NOT WHAT TESTOSTERONE IS. I am not familiar enough with the other steroids available which may have this profile to speculate (tren, etc).. I am also unsure the negative co-effects that could result (side effect of other roids). You may NEVER see androgens prescribed on ANY LEVEL. I equate this to Adderall vs. the more strongly bonded amphetamines closer to METH, as speaking politically, not directly comparitively.
I think YOU are referring to using a testosterone cream. At 10% you are getting probably 5MGs per day. Still too much. But the furher issue there would be the direct application to adipose tissue (fat), moreso than an intramuscular application.
I am also considering pellet implants. Everyone I have seen using this has had GREAT SUCCESS in comparison to even IM TRT. or PATCHES/GELS. Its ALL going in the muscle and going MORE DIRECTLY to the intended tissue, IMO. You get the slow dispersion and not even an ester to worry with. Keep in mind a Cyp ester must probably go a good 2-4 weeks to stabilize and disperse steadily if injected properly. This is not an issue with creams. So I WOULD recommend you investigate pellet implants. But: Creams ='s skin>
='s BACK THROUGH THE FAT>
='s estrogen aromatization.
Again, a massive failure in modern medicine due to ignorance and lack of study.
PROP - Good ester for megadosing in BB. Not necessary.
TREN - Illegal, not necessary for OUR Goals, too many other complications. OUR fix is PRIMARILY IN LIFESTYLE AND DIET. A LITTLE SynT May not hurt to catch a ride on the way... Watch the Gyno and Use Tamox if it persist in minimal SynT application and you are not meriting surgey.
YOU ASKED. You got it. This if probably my most succinct conglomeration of OPINION that I have ever distribute and based on 5 solid years of person research - And thanks to THIS SITE has made it possible!
One Further note on SERM use to stimulate HPTA. I have come to suspect that the is no DIRECT Stimulation of TT production through SERM use. But an indirect stimulation serving iva the receptor blockage (antagonist) as a means to RESET predominating site affinity (andrgoen vs. estrogen), and also to stimulate HPTA via the actual agaonist effects in high muscle content males via the induced estrogenic activity at sites otherwise involved with adrogens as a result of excess androgen activity prolonged, thus re-triggering production. So I am not saying SERMS dont work to stimulate HPTA. I AM saying they do it by means of receptor interaction and not at the brain (as many think). I am also saying that a SERM RESET may be critical in high body fat LowT Males as a means to restoration. And effective in as little as two weeks total application from time to time. Anyone who wishes to argue this is welcome, Just show me where an elevated TT serum count give ANY indication of hormone metaboism rates (other than a slowdown, IMO), or show me where it is documented that the effect even in measured serum count can last more than a brief while. I feel the elevated TT counts, especially in Male BBs is a direct reflection of slowed ACTUAL TT Metabolism rates due to estrogenic activity resulting in receptors otherwise inudated and current involved with androgens, now blocked by drug induced estrogen control. I am still hypothesizing that one. So YES limited SERM use can also CORRECT receptor imbalances thus leading to a more natural hormone metabolism profile me thinks.
YES, I am going to turn this world UP SIDE DOWN...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The REST,,,,,,, IS all HORSE SHIT... IMO...
forevergreat said:
EITHER CASE IS INSTANTLY RECOVERABLE TO CURRENT TISSUE REQUIREMENTS at least for the puposes of health. This is the feedback loop and I speculate faster than thought. Androgen suppressed testicles that have turned to peanuts will return to normal size with each day that passes and levels lower. You can actually almost see them grow when returning from a shinking of that magnitude. This is further proof of androgen shutdown as one can directly equate testicle shrinkage with Potency rather than estrogen. For BBs it does not appear that shutdown ever was the chicken, but the androgen egg laid.... There can be no real delay in HPTA response, only a failure to measure hormone metabolism rates accurately via serum counts. The androgen scenario however is NOT naturally recoverable as it was an unnatural state supported by exogenous supply. Consider estrogen principles are unnatural in men and can be removed. EXTREMELY HIGH ANDROGEN POPULATION can not be supported naturally, so is there even an extended shut down in BB's?!?. 
