8 wks into TRT, seeking feedback

[635bend]

I'm prescribed TRT from an online pharmacy that is mentioned in this forum, but am using ugm (Test-C) from a supplier found in forums. I am not interested in blasting at this time nor anytime in the near future as I have too much body fat to lose. However, I have had symptoms of low-T and wanted to get that addressed. I have been intentional about working on my diet, my fitness, and ensuring that I am tracking my information. I have been diligent about my labs, even before the introduction of TRT. I had pre-labs completed in mid-December 2024, I started at 200mg (100mg on Sun, Wed) at the end of December and had follow up labs completed at the end of February 2025.

During this time, I also was using:
- Reta 8mg (4mg 2x/week)
- Cag 1mg (1x/week)
- Duloxetine (self-taper from 60mg to 25mg (current) and eventually off)
- Lipo-C 1ml (2x/week)
- NAD+ 100mg (2x/week)

I did not use an AI during this 8 week process and did not experience any side effects until acne began during the middle of Feb. Euthymic mood, significantly increased libido with sustained erections, sleep has been impacted as I will wake up in the night more often but able to go back to sleep easily (avid CPAP user).

Based on my numbers below, my thought is to
- lower my TestC dosage to 150mg either split 2 or 3 times per week as 1121 seems to be higher than it should be for simple TRT
- introduce an AI to manage the high estradiol as I titrate down on the Test
- engage in much more cardio (currently 3x per week for 20 minutes and 4x per week for resistance training)

I'm curious about the drop in lipids, the HDL I understand is from the Test increase, but the other results from the Reta?

Here are the before/after numbers:

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

That is some hella estradiol. I’ve never seen anyone who aromatises more than I do. Must be due to the body fat. Your estradiol should drop as you lose weight.

Your plan seems good. I’d consider increasing injection frequency, and consider subq. Both could lower your estradiol.

Take it slow with an AI. Some people respond strongly to them; others don’t.

 

[malfeasance]

It sounds like you have a lot of good thinking in the right direction.

200mg is a lot.

150mg is still a lot.

True TRT should not require an AI. Your body did not need an AI when you were 25 and not injecting testosterone.

I am at 120mg currently. I spent almost two years at 75mg a week. I upped it because my E2 was too low (and my doctor suggested it as well after looking at my labs). At 120mg I do not experience high estrogen or acne or any issues.

I would consider lower than 150mg. I would also not bother with injecting that 3X weekly. Cypionate ester has a long enough duration that there is no need to be pinning so often. I would also probably increase your 20 minutes of cardio to a half hour or more

I do not know what some of the other stuff you are taking is.

You do not say anything about your physique or your goals. What are your goals? How has your progression toward those goals been over the shortish time you have been injecting 200mg of testosterone?

Lipids - you do not want HDL to go down. Ideally, it should be higher than it is. Your LDL could stand to go down more, although it is not that bad. Since I do not know anything about your lifestyle and diet and body fat and so on, I can't really recommend anything here.

 

[buck]

My TRT is 15mg/day = 105mg /week and my E2 lelvles are well over the top of the range these days even on an AI.With my T in the 800 range with a scale of 250-1100. It was not likel that in my early years of Dr prescribed TRT. Many boys growing up get gyno so i am not sure that saying AI's are not needed for true TRT is accurate. Unless some one want s to lower their dose of T down to very low levels which was the reason for starting TRT for many so they didn't walk around with lelvles in the 300 range.

 

[lalakis]

you need to low down your trt dose also is there a chance you have a lot of fat? cause the more fat you have the more test aromatizes more. also you can try until you find the best dose for you to use aromasin low dose 1 or 2 times per week. you can also try to use some proviron

 

[malfeasance]

Many boys growing up get gyno

Different subject having nothing at all to do with what I wrote. Modern gyno during puberty has been tied to endocrine disruptors in the modern environment.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-plasticizer-breast-idUSTRE5BD39920091214/

"They detected DEHP in all blood samples and MEHP in all boys with gynecomastia and in 19 of 20 control boys.

Blood DEHP levels were markedly higher in the boys with gynecomastia than in those without this condition. MEHP levels were also much higher in the boys with gynecomastia than their healthy counterparts.

According to the investigators, for boys with the highest MEHP levels, the risk of breast enlargement was nearly 25-fold higher."

 

[malfeasance]

My TRT is 15mg/day = 105mg /week and my E2 lelvles are well over the top of the range these days even on an AI.With my T in the 800 range with a scale of 250-1100. It was not likel that in my early years of Dr prescribed TRT. Many boys growing up get gyno so i am not sure that saying AI's are not needed for true TRT is accurate. Unless some one want s to lower their dose of T down to very low levels which was the reason for starting TRT for many so they didn't walk around with lelvles in the 300 range.

Just to address your post in a little more detail, there is a huge range of difference between 800 and 300, and your 800 was obviously sitting up there that high every day, constantly, because you were administering testosterone every day. The human body does not naturally act that way. Blood levels change from high to low throughout the day.

You had yourself at the higher end of the range constantly. I do not know your body fat level or anything else, but that constant elevated level by itself could have explained your high estrogen.

I am not looking for a pissing contest, but I do hope you consider a little deeper analysis of what you wrote. There is enough information in there for you to reconsider your conclusions (note I did not say change your conclusions, just reconsider, maybe change or not, but think a little more deeply about all of those facts).


Morning measurement, 411, evening measurement 334 ng/dL. That is nearly an average 20% drop for natties. A similar drop from your 800 would be 650. But you would have to let it drop lower consistently to mimic circadian rhythm.

Measurement of testosterone: how important is a morning blood draw? - PubMed

Based on these findings, it may be possible to expand the blood draw time window for measurement of serum TT. This community-based study was not prospectively design to determine the most appropriate blood draw window for TT measurement. Only a single TT measurement was made without...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[malfeasance]

By the way, an 800 response on only 105mg is probably one of the highest responses I have seen.

Odd that your number was so high when you obviously had such high conversion to estrogen, too.

 

[buck]

Just to address your post in a little more detail, there is a huge range of difference between 800 and 300, and your 800 was obviously sitting up there that high every day, constantly, because you were administering testosterone every day. The human body does not naturally act that way. Blood levels change from high to low throughout the day.

You had yourself at the higher end of the range constantly. I do not know your body fat level or anything else, but that constant elevated level by itself could have explained your high estrogen.

I am not looking for a pissing contest, but I do hope you consider a little deeper analysis of what you wrote. There is enough information in there for you to reconsider your conclusions (note I did not say change your conclusions, just reconsider, maybe change or not, but think a little more deeply about all of those facts).


Morning measurement, 411, evening measurement 334 ng/dL. That is nearly an average 20% drop for natties. A similar drop from your 800 would be 650. But you would have to let it drop lower consistently to mimic circadian rhythm.

Measurement of testosterone: how important is a morning blood draw? - PubMed

Based on these findings, it may be possible to expand the blood draw time window for measurement of serum TT. This community-based study was not prospectively design to determine the most appropriate blood draw window for TT measurement. Only a single TT measurement was made without...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The human body makes testosterone every day from my reading. And an 800 lelvel with 1100 being the top of the range would put it about 2/3rds of the way up the scale not at the top.And my blood work shows my lelvles can fluctuate almosrt 200 points even with daiy injections which would make me closer to a natural rythum then injectiomns spaced farther apart. In all my years of reading the total t lelves are fairly stable. And do not change several huindred point for most people.

A drop from 411 to 344 with a scale of 250-1100. Would be a bout an 8% drop in T lelvles according to the scale being used.

My E2 lelvles on or off cycle were farly consistent with little to no AI being needed when i was a kid in my 40's and well into my 50's. The started to trend upward. with a bigger jump in my 60's which Dr.'s testing and talking to numerous knowledgelbe/proesseional people having no real explanation. I tend to think it is like most things once age comes into play. My BP has been rising during that time and is know 118/66 in the mornings with my fasted glucose lelvles being about 95.

Higher amounts of aromatese enzyme is usually asociated with bodyfat lelvles but lean people can also have more genetically then fatter people. It is much like the enzmye that cleaves off the ester from test injections. Every one is different and those can change to as time goes by the body is not a static theng.

I hope you stay open minded as well as i am always open to learning and in my 25 years of Dr prescibed TRT and reading and being on TRT forums for all those years i have learned alot and will likely learn more.

 

[buck]

By the way, an 800 response on only 105mg is probably one of the highest responses I have seen.

Odd that your number was so high when you obviously had such high conversion to estrogen, too.

That is due to daily injections. When doing weekly at the same dose i peak at almost 1200 which is over the top of the scale 2 days post injections and am around 430 just before the next injection. But that is also in conjuction with a scale of 250-1100. So the 800 would be a little over midway up the scale.And about 30% below the top end. so my daily injects put me towards the upper end of the mid range and barely into the the upper 1/3 of the range.

 

[Exhortae]

70 mg per week of testosterone undecanoate here. More is not better for trt

 

[malfeasance]

The human body makes testosterone every day from my reading.

Correct. But it has no ester, which means it clears faster than testosterone cleaved to a cypionate ester, and it is produced in a pulsatile manner, not constantly. The reason it is higher in the morning is that your production is high while you are sleeping. In fact, sleep disruption studies result in low testosterone if REM sleep is disturbed.

One more fact is that the body produces maybe 6mg a day, total. You are injecting 15mg. Even taking into account the ester weight, you are nowhere near 6mg of testosterone daily.

PS - Do what you want. I am not chastising you, but this post is titled "seeking feedback," So, well, I provided some feedback. Most of us are really looking to be superhuman and do not care all that much about Testosterone REPLACEMENT Therapy - and 200mg a week ain't replacement (not you, the OP). Rationalizing the high estrogen and then taking an AI is not good advice. If he is going to do that, then he needs to do it with his eyes wide open about what it is he is doing, which is high testosterone, high estrogen, and polypharmacy to control things. There is no need. Lowering his dose and not using an AI would be preferable.

 

[malfeasance]

My E2 lelvles on or off cycle were farly consistent with little to no AI being needed when i was a kid in my 40's and well into my 50's. The started to trend upward. with a bigger jump in my 60's which Dr.'s testing and talking to numerous knowledgelbe/proesseional people having no real explanation. I tend to think it is like most things once age comes into play. My BP has been rising during that time and is know 118/66 in the mornings with my fasted glucose lelvles being about 95.

I have not quite yet hit 60, but my conversion is low. I am also very lean, so maybe that has a lot to do with it.

Your blood pressure is enviable.

That fasted glucose, though . . .

 

[BamaCrazy]

70 mg per week of testosterone undecanoate here. More is not better for trt

Are you injecting Test U weekly?

 

[buck]

Correct. But it has no ester, which means it clears faster than testosterone cleaved to a cypionate ester, and it is produced in a pulsatile manner, not constantly. The reason it is higher in the morning is that your production is high while you are sleeping. In fact, sleep disruption studies result in low testosterone if REM sleep is disturbed.

One more fact is that the body produces maybe 6mg a day, total. You are injecting 15mg. Even taking into account the ester weight, you are nowhere near 6mg of testosterone daily.

PS - Do what you want. I am not chastising you, but this post is titled "seeking feedback," So, well, I provided some feedback. Most of us are really looking to be superhuman and do not care all that much about Testosterone REPLACEMENT Therapy - and 200mg a week ain't replacement (not you, the OP). Rationalizing the high estrogen and then taking an AI is not good advice. If he is going to do that, then he needs to do it with his eyes wide open about what it is he is doing, which is high testosterone, high estrogen, and polypharmacy to control things. There is no need. Lowering his dose and not using an AI would be preferable.

The only way to have any real natural pulsative T levels would be to take some short acting drug while one was sleeping which seems out of the question for most so i am not sure why that is a part of the discussion.
My micro dosing comes closer to natural then going days between injections. That is one of the reason i do it that way. So my levels fluctuate from very mid range to just over mid range throughout the day.

As the OP posted about TRT my replies are pointed to the real TRT range not what some one does in a cycle which i have done plenty of those. I am fine with people being super human. It just takes it toll which people may want to take into consideration. The studies i have seen show production of T ranges of 5-10 mg a day for most young men. With 6 being towards the middle of the range. But as i am sure you know studies show men's T levels have dropped 20% over the last 20 years and data points to levels dropping 40% over the last 40 years. So being average for these days is not what my generation is used to. I never had my T levels checked when i was young i tend to think my levels may have been to the high end as i was stronger then most and competing in BB as a light heavy at 5"7" when i was still natural. Which none of that really means much as my levels show i am only just over the mid part of the normal range in general at my peak, which you seem to think is high for some reason.

You are right this is about feed back which my original post on this thread was about, just to add more perspective. i replied to the OP And then you started replying directly to my post. so i am just continuing the discussion you started with me. I strongly support you doing and posting as you see fit
I agree that dosing is the best way to go in general unless the low levels achieved from the dose end up causing side effects as well which is where AI can be of help in my opinion.

Thanks for the support with the BP but into my early 60's it was 106/64 in the mornings so i am less then happy about it going up to where it is. And the glucose is a bummer as well as it used to be lower for decades. While i don't have hard abs i do have some showing through. and my E2 levels have risen even though my BF has stayed the same. Things were easier to deal with in my 40's and 50's.

 

[malfeasance]

Things were easier to deal with in my 40's and 50's.

LOL. And even easier in 20s

57 here

 

[buck]

LOL. And even easier in 20s

57 here

I hear ya. When guys talk about being old in their 40' i laugh as i look at those as my prime years.