19 y/o Post Cycle/Low Libido- in need of advice

[Nikolay Petrov]

We've all been there dude... My Estrogen during PCT is off the roof so I usually have to add Aromasin along with the Clomid/Nolvadex. These are the symptoms of high Estrogen:

• Weight gain
• Erectile dysfunction
• Low sex drive
• Infertility
• Enlargement of breast tissue
• Depression
• Loss of energy
• Decrease in muscle mass

Taken from: High Estrogen in Men: Symptoms and Meaning

 

[Carlitosaso]

You fucking stupid

 

[phenominal34]

You fucking stupid

Hey Dumb Fuck I didn’t know you went outside of Skanks thread you waste of a human.

 

[TheGuyHere]

I am planning on getting my blood work done when i am have completed my pct

You should be doing bloods before, during, AND after cycle mate!

 

[malfeasance]

Don’t do anything but stay off!! No more drugs and no more PCT. oftentimes the PCT drugs can fuck someone up worse than not doing a PCT at all, not saying this is your case but the answer here is time off, time off, and time off!! 5 wks post cycle, sheesh, that’s nothing

THIS

@braiton.baxter, you are 19. What you are experiencing right now is perfectly normal after coming off test and tren. Just wait it out. I know that this seems like a long time when you are only 19, but it's not. Wait.

You will bounce back.

Keep your diet and training on point in the meantime.

 

[Turbo charged]

19 and on tren really dumb move. You are not ready for that compound not even close.

 

[hometeam]

Oh the flame wars begin but if he's been trained on how to lift and eat I'll bet he put on 20lbs of lean muscle and kept 15 regardless of the PCT snafu. Young bodies bounce back. @braiton.baxter watch your blood pressure and hematocrit/hemoglobin levels though.

 

[barbell001]

Doing any kind of steroids even mild ones is stupid before 22 - But to be running Trenbolone at 19 F'kin years old is ridiculous. Your endocrine system isn't even fully developed yet and you are already shutting it down with one of the heaviest steroids there is. Serves you right IMO I'm surprised more people are not commenting on the stupidity of this.

 

[Live_Evil]

No point in constantly telling him how stupid he is, I'm sure he knows, and the fact that he feels like shit substantiates the idea.

Others have commented on how you started your PCT too early, so I won't go there.

It's also pretty horrid advice to refrain from using PCT compounds and just letting your body do its thing. PCT exists for a reason, it fucking works. You're going to be depressed and hating life for an insane amount of time if you just quit PCT. If you aren't sure who to believe here, go to a TRT clinic and tell the doctor exactly what you did.

If you don't want to see a doctor, read through this post: Comprehensive Guide to PCT

19nors are, in fact, quite stupid if you're merely cycling rather than blasting and cruising. The reason being, 19nor metabolites can cause suppression for insane amounts of time once you cycle off, and are found in the body up to a year after your last injection. Further, they don't only interact with androgen receptors, they interact with estrogen receptors, and other hormone receptors that have the potential to cause sexual disfunction.

Yes, some guys get away with it. Some guys even get away with tren only cycles, some guys even get away with robbing banks in broad daylight by sheer dumb luck. So what? They're fucking stupid.

Do you know how many threads I've seen on this forum from 19nor users who cycled off and make panic threads because their dicks still don't work 8 months after their last cycle? Far more than I can remember. To put it into perspective, guys who blast and cruise can still have severe sexual side effects from 19nors. There was a thread on here just a few months ago from a guy on TRT who had deca dick nearly a year after his last injection of nandrolone.

If you're going to cycle, stay away from 19nors. In the meantime, read that thread I posted, learn about PCT, and take care of yourself. And no, PCT won't fuck you up worse than a fucking 19nor. That's some ridiculous, old-school, fallacious bullshit, spouted by guys who want to justify their massively unsafe dosages and complete disregard for their own health --"Well, at least I'm not using that bullshit clomid. There was a trial where one woman had vision side effects after 18 months of use and her vision went back to normal after she discontinued use. Don't use that shit! It's horrible for you! Instead, use this 19nor that is literally so destructive to heart cells it kills them in vitro in a matter of minutes."

 

[malfeasance]

Cite your actual evidence for "PCT works" so that we can evaluate your claim that those recommending the teenager has not waited long enough and that he should give this process more time instead of continuing to fuck with his hormones and his body's biofeedback processes are, as you say, giving "horrible advice."

You sound pretty sure of yourself, so I would like to evaluate the actual scientific evidence underlying your claims.

 

[grey]

teenager has not waited long enough and that he should give this process more time instead of continuing to fuck with his hormones and his body's biofeedback processes are

Concur here... at his age there is no reason to rush into dumping more chems into his system.

Waiting another 8-12 weeks (or even more) to see where his body bounces back to isn't going to hurt anything.

 

[Live_Evil]

Cite your actual evidence for "PCT works" so that we can evaluate your claim that those recommending the teenager has not waited long enough and that he should give this process more time instead of continuing to fuck with his hormones and his body's biofeedback processes are, as you say, giving "horrible advice."

You sound pretty sure of yourself, so I would like to evaluate the actual scientific evidence underlying your claims.

Clomiphene citrate effects on testosterone/estrogen ratio in male hypogonadism - PubMed

Low dose clomiphene citrate is effective in elevating serum testosterone levels and improving the testosterone/estradiol ratio in men with hypogonadism. This therapy represents an alternative to testosterone therapy by stimulating the endogenous androgen production pathway.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That's just the first one I found. There are dozens of trials showing significant improvement in hypogonadal men. The one caveat seems to be men in their 60's and older.

Concur here... at his age there is no reason to rush into dumping more chems into his system.

Waiting another 8-12 weeks (or even more) to see where his body bounces back to isn't going to hurt anything.

Why not recover in 60 days opposed to potential months on end?

 

[Demondosage]

No point in constantly telling him how stupid he is, I'm sure he knows, and the fact that he feels like shit substantiates the idea.

Others have commented on how you started your PCT too early, so I won't go there.

It's also pretty horrid advice to refrain from using PCT compounds and just letting your body do its thing. PCT exists for a reason, it fucking works. You're going to be depressed and hating life for an insane amount of time if you just quit PCT. If you aren't sure who to believe here, go to a TRT clinic and tell the doctor exactly what you did.

If you don't want to see a doctor, read through this post: Comprehensive Guide to PCT

19nors are, in fact, quite stupid if you're merely cycling rather than blasting and cruising. The reason being, 19nor metabolites can cause suppression for insane amounts of time once you cycle off, and are found in the body up to a year after your last injection. Further, they don't only interact with androgen receptors, they interact with estrogen receptors, and other hormone receptors that have the potential to cause sexual disfunction.

Yes, some guys get away with it. Some guys even get away with tren only cycles, some guys even get away with robbing banks in broad daylight by sheer dumb luck. So what? They're fucking stupid.

Do you know how many threads I've seen on this forum from 19nor users who cycled off and make panic threads because their dicks still don't work 8 months after their last cycle? Far more than I can remember. To put it into perspective, guys who blast and cruise can still have severe sexual side effects from 19nors. There was a thread on here just a few months ago from a guy on TRT who had deca dick nearly a year after his last injection of nandrolone.

If you're going to cycle, stay away from 19nors. In the meantime, read that thread I posted, learn about PCT, and take care of yourself. And no, PCT won't fuck you up worse than a fucking 19nor. That's some ridiculous, old-school, fallacious bullshit, spouted by guys who want to justify their massively unsafe dosages and complete disregard for their own health --"Well, at least I'm not using that bullshit clomid. There was a trial where one woman had vision side effects after 18 months of use and her vision went back to normal after she discontinued use. Don't use that shit! It's horrible for you! Instead, use this 19nor that is literally so destructive to heart cells it kills them in vitro in a matter of minutes."

How abt the guys who overkilled PCT and still can’t figure out why they feel off? Shit isn’t magic and it’s not as effective as ppl think. Time off is key

 

[malfeasance]

Clomiphene citrate effects on testosterone/estrogen ratio in male hypogonadism - PubMed

Low dose clomiphene citrate is effective in elevating serum testosterone levels and improving the testosterone/estradiol ratio in men with hypogonadism. This therapy represents an alternative to testosterone therapy by stimulating the endogenous androgen production pathway.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That's just the first one I found. There are dozens of trials showing significant improvement in hypogonadal men. The one caveat seems to be men in their 60's and older.


Why not recover in 60 days opposed to potential months on end?

Sigh. I thought this might just be an issue of you not understanding what you are looking at, and you proved me right, sadly. I was hoping to learn something.

Yes, taking various substances, including clomid, will affect your hormones temporarily while taking it. Surely you did not think I was asking you for a study showing that?

This study does not answer the question of whether taking clomid for purposes of what you call "PCT" is a good idea or has any affect other than the short term bump while taking it.

Ask yourself some questions about this study: Was there a longer term follow up? Are there any lasting effects from taking clomid? Since values changed at 4-6 weeks, what about at 10-12 or longer? Did the study participants actually lower their longer term testosterone levels at 12 weeks by participating in this study? In other words, does this temporary boost have any suppressive effects after the clomid administration ceases, or is it "cost free?"

Does the body recover on its own 6 months out better by not fucking with your endocrine system or by taking drugs to try and continuously tweak it?

Does taking clomid enhance recovery in any way? Does it speed up full recovery from a steroid cycle? Does it hamper full recovery? This study does not tell us.

FYI, I am not necessarily completely anti-PCT. I am just saying that a lot of assumptions are being made here about the OP that probably are not based in scientific evidence. And this far out from his cycle, after he already did a PCT that the internet steroid gurus rule "not perfect," is it better for the OP to do yet another PCT that is this time perfect and steroid forum approved, or is it better to stop fucking with his teenager hormonal system and let his 19 year old body endocrine system recover?

I vote for the latter in the context of the original poster's circumstances.

 

[malfeasance]

If I did my math correctly, he is now 11 weeks out from his last injections, during which he was using very low test and a little tren but absolutely hammering his body with AI and caber.

He is only about a month out from his experiments with PCT.

He is a teenager.

I say take a fucking break from all the unnecessary drugs and let him recover. His 19 year old body absolutely will go back to normal. It needs time to do so, and every substance he puts into his body just extends that time. Stop! Then let us know how you are feeling in March.

Keep working out and eating well.