is Androgel causing my High Blood Pressure?

[zkt]

I checked my BP tonight and it was 128/78
I really think anxiety and adrenalin are my problems.
I was on Lexapro for some time and was doing great. Then I got off it because I felt so good with the androgel. Now I am back on the Lexapro and starting to feel calm.
While on the lexapro I noticed I didnt have those periods of pounding heartbeat with breathlessness (flight or fight)-Off the lexapro and that all returned. I would like to think that my BP is brought on by anxiety more then anything.

I did have a high BP in my 20s on 2 back to back office visit occasions which prompted a 5 year run of the beta blocker. I attribute alot of that to cigarettes, being overweight, McDonalds every day (like any other 25 year old in 1987) and drinking. Latter throughout most of the 90s when I was off the meds my BP was stabile. Im not sure why I had that spike in my mid 20s. One thing for sure is I do suffer with life long panic disorder and GAD (general anxiety disorder).

Just to ad another note, I was thinking about what you said about long standing hypertension:
I hope thats not the case with me. As part of my lifelong anxiety problems, I am also a hypochondriac and I obsess over my health. I remember throughout the 1990s constantly going down to the volunteer fire dept. to ask them to check my blood pressure, along with clinics and emergency rooms etc. I think I always had the fear of the high BP returning again from the 80's. Fortunately it never did. It wasnt until the last 10 years or so that I stopped obsessing over my BP and only checked it on my annual physicals where it was always within normal limits.

Yes I think your BP issues might have been blown a bit out of proportion and that worry and anxiety are at the root. BTW, citalopram and Lex contain the same active ingrediant. Lex is a bit more concentrated but cit is a hell of a lot cheaper and just akes a little more to get the same effect. Smoking definitely raises BP. Hope you have outgrown it.
Keep us posted.

 

[jonkobeck]

Yes I think your BP issues might have been blown a bit out of proportion and that worry and anxiety are at the root. BTW, citalopram and Lex contain the same active ingrediant. Lex is a bit more concentrated but cit is a hell of a lot cheaper and just akes a little more to get the same effect. Smoking definitely raises BP. Hope you have outgrown it.
Keep us posted.

Yes no more cigarettes for a few years thank God
Ok, here are todays numbers.
this morning at 12:00 noon 160/90 left arm 140/90 right arm
Tonight I was conducting an "open house" for my job so I was on my feet and working so I dont htink this one counts buy it was 157/100 and the guy who was working with my was 170/100 lol
Right now, its 10:00 pm and I am sitting up in bed on my laptop. I just checked my bp and its 133/85
THis is frustrating!

 

[zkt]

Yes no more cigarettes for a few years thank God
Ok, here are todays numbers.
this morning at 12:00 noon 160/90 left arm 140/90 right arm
Tonight I was conducting an "open house" for my job so I was on my feet and working so I dont htink this one counts buy it was 157/100 and the guy who was working with my was 170/100 lol
Right now, its 10:00 pm and I am sitting up in bed on my laptop. I just checked my bp and its 133/85
THis is frustrating!

BP does vary a LOT during the day and with activity, both physical and mental. Any ONE reading doesnt mean much. Better to take many reading at different times of the day over a period of time to get the big picture. The cuff needs to be at heart level and the sensor on the inside of the upper arm over the radial artery and sit and relax for 5 minurtes befor the reading.
What kind of monitor are you using? The wrist type is crap.

 

[imrj]

sit and relax for 5 minurtes befor the reading.
What kind of monitor are you using? The wrist type is crap.

is that true? when I had a stress test done they measured my BP while I was running....I dont think a stroke or heart attack will wait arouind while you sit down for 5min and rest to make sure you know your BP is high

 

[jonkobeck]

BP does vary a LOT during the day and with activity, both physical and mental. Any ONE reading doesnt mean much. Better to take many reading at different times of the day over a period of time to get the big picture. The cuff needs to be at heart level and the sensor on the inside of the upper arm over the radial artery and sit and relax for 5 minurtes befor the reading.
What kind of monitor are you using? The wrist type is crap.

I think my monitor is crap. I went to the doctor today to deliver my 24 hour halter monitor and I I asked the nurse to check my BP it was 140/90
Then I immediately put my monitor on and its 162/98

I tried my meter today at my office and tested 5 coworkers, 4 out of the 5 had high bp. So in a way I am relieved that my BP is not as high as I thought, It looks like I am running about 140/90
Not great but not terrible either. Perhaps I can correct with lifestyle changes.

YOu asked what kind of monitor, CVS brand over the bicept for $29.99, I gues you get what you pay for.
SO I took your advice and I ordered Hibiscus Tea (no one around here sells it). I also started taking Garlique, Potasium, Magnesium and COQ10.

I went mack on the androgel but 2.5mg and not the 5mg. I am feeling a little foggy, and I lost the morning wood and libido. I wonder if I can just go back to the 5. What are the chances that was causing the spike in BP after being on it for 5 months?
Should I ask the doc for the patch?

 

[zkt]

is that true? when I had a stress test done they measured my BP while I was running....I dont think a stroke or heart attack will wait arouind while you sit down for 5min and rest to make sure you know your BP is high

I think my monitor is crap. I went to the doctor today to deliver my 24 hour halter monitor and I I asked the nurse to check my BP it was 140/90
Then I immediately put my monitor on and its 162/98

I tried my meter today at my office and tested 5 coworkers, 4 out of the 5 had high bp. So in a way I am relieved that my BP is not as high as I thought, It looks like I am running about 140/90
Not great but not terrible either. Perhaps I can correct with lifestyle changes.

YOu asked what kind of monitor, CVS brand over the bicept for $29.99, I gues you get what you pay for.
SO I took your advice and I ordered Hibiscus Tea (no one around here sells it). I also started taking Garlique, Potasium, Magnesium and COQ10.

I went mack on the androgel but 2.5mg and not the 5mg. I am feeling a little foggy, and I lost the morning wood and libido. I wonder if I can just go back to the 5. What are the chances that was causing the spike in BP after being on it for 5 months?
Should I ask the doc for the patch?

A stress test is a lot different from a resting reading. They want to know several things about what your heart is doing under controlled stress conditions. You hadnt mentioed a stress test. What are the curcumstances and detail of that.?
It doesnt really matter in the short term if your BP is a little high. The important thing is to hold everything constant for long enough to confirm and evaluate (how high) HT. SO I wqould get a bit better unit and check as I menttioned.
I dont kown anything about tea> Musta been someone else.
If I miss responding PM me.

 

[LW64]

Perhaps I can correct with lifestyle changes.

Amongst all the other issues you're dealing with, you can look into adopting a pastoral diet that would include AVOIDING the following three 'new foods' that contribute to high blood pressure:

[1] sugar/HFCS

[2] wheat

[3] vegetable and seed oils

The lower overall carbohydrate intake with this kind of diet is powerfully diuretic and will reduce your insulin level. That combination can and will make your blood pressure drop significantly.

Take a look at the "Nutrition/Supplements" section and the posts related to Paleo diets to get an idea of what I'm suggesting. You dont have to eat raw meat like cvictorg to get the benefit of the diet but you'll get the idea.... I wish someone had told ME about this way of eating while I was going through the BP med merry-go-round for 10 friggin' years!

 

[jonkobeck]

Patch ?

Amongst all the other issues you're dealing with, you can look into adopting a pastoral diet that would include AVOIDING the following three 'new foods' that contribute to high blood pressure:

[1] sugar/HFCS

[2] wheat

[3] vegetable and seed oils

The lower overall carbohydrate intake with this kind of diet is powerfully diuretic and will reduce your insulin level. That combination can and will make your blood pressure drop significantly.

Take a look at the "Nutrition/Supplements" section and the posts related to Paleo diets to get an idea of what I'm suggesting. You dont have to eat raw meat like cvictorg to get the benefit of the diet but you'll get the idea.... I wish someone had told ME about this way of eating while I was going through the BP med merry-go-round for 10 friggin' years!

I have been dieting avoiding salt and sugar, and carbs. I have also been supplementing with Garlique, Potassium and Magnesium and COQ10. I am starting to notice a decrease in my blood pressure. I dont feel my heart pounding as much and I feel calmer. I checked today while sitting at my desk and it was 135/87 . Its only been a week though so im not sure if its the diet. Also I started lexapro last week so it may just be that I am calmer due to the drug.

Tomorrow I visit the doctor. Should I request to switch to the patch instead of the gel? Im not sure if he is even familiar with it. I read somewhere on here that the patch has lesser chance of raising BP

 

[LW64]

Re: Patch ?

I have been dieting avoiding salt and sugar, and carbs. I have also been supplementing with Garlique, Potassium and Magnesium and COQ10. I am starting to notice a decrease in my blood pressure. I dont feel my heart pounding as much and I feel calmer. I checked today while sitting at my desk and it was 135/87 . Its only been a week though so im not sure if its the diet. Also I started lexapro last week so it may just be that I am calmer due to the drug.

Tomorrow I visit the doctor. Should I request to switch to the patch instead of the gel? Im not sure if he is even familiar with it. I read somewhere on here that the patch has lesser chance of raising BP

What is your daily intake of carbs, in grams?

Once you start lowering your carb intake to below 75 to 50 grams per day and stay that way, you'll start to get the full diuretic effect but it can take a while to get the BP benefits. It depends on how quickly your insulin level drops and how soon your metabolism starts losing sodium, potassium, magnesium, etc. Lower insulin will let your kidneys release more sodium and your BP will start falling.

Be patient. It took a few months in my case, but its worth it!

Keep your carb intake at the same low level every day. You do not need to go into ketosis (about 30 to 20 gm carbs per day) to get this benefit unless you're trying to lose weight and you need to get the whole process kick-started. If you go that low, dont do it for more than 10 or 15 days.

One unmistakable sign that you're affecting your mineral level is that about 2 to 4 weeks into eating this way, you will have a day when your blood sugar cant keep up with your energy needs and you will feel faint. You might also start to feel like you're getting a cold - the "Atkins Flu". Sit down, relax, and take some chicken boullion (NOT the low sodium kind!) and you'll feel better soon enough. Supplementing with potassium and magnesium is a good idea. Magnesium is a calcium channel blocker and can lower BP all on its own.

I went into this way of eating in October 2009 with a BP of 135/80 WITH THREE BP MEDS. and about six months later my BP was 125/75 with only ONE BP med - and I'm 20+ pounds lighter too!

I dont have any expereince with patches; maybe someone who does can chime in. My understanding is that gels or injections are more effective. You already know the gels arent for you, so that leaves IM T injections.

 

[jonkobeck]

You see, Im really bad at counting grams, carbs etc. Im just avoiding breads, sugars, pastas, etc.

Bear in mind, my NORMAL diet is this:

Breakfast: Bagel w/cream cheese or Egg and cheese on roll. Now I am eating Cheerios and fat free milm with fruit.

Lunch: normally a sandwich mike a 6 inch subway Italian BMT
Now: Turkey on whole wheat

Dinner was a free for all, occasional italian (typical pasta with something dish etc)
Now: an organic Black Bean Burrito or some salmon.

In addition, I would pick on what ever is around my office all day, including chocolate, candy, etc. throw in an occasional ice cream or can of soda.
I eliminated all that junk food and sugar.

 

[jonkobeck]

Here are my last numbers:
154/85 66
138.84 66
147/85 63
124/84 58
141/86 57
123/87 49
148/89 55
150/92 53
144/84 59
128/81 56

thats from the last 3 days in which I was off from work. At the office the bottom number is usually around 90. Home relaxed its better. I am seeing improvement with the reduction of the coffee to only one cup per day. Also being back on the Lexapro may be helping.
I notice that if I take the BP before that one cup of joe in the morning, its about 10 points lower. So I am going to work on eliminaing the coffee alltogether.
I am still wondering if the androgel is raising the BP. Today I went back to the 4 pumps (5mg) from the 2 pumps (2.5mg) because the 2.5 I dont think is even working.

 

[LW64]

This site lays out the diet very well!

Archevore - Archevore Diet


and no counting carbs is required!... but you do have to eat a lot more fat.

There's no other way to say it, but you have to really forget the standard medical/nutrional advice regardiing what a proper diet is that's been foisted on us for the last 40 years. It doesnt work and it's given us a diabesity epidemic. Get a copy of Eades "Protein Power" (its an old book and you can get it as a used paperback on amazon for, like, 3 cents!) or Taubes book "Why We Get Fat...and What to Do About It"

I see the same effect with coffee, but er, um, I like it too much. Every now and then I switch to decaf with full cream in it. And dont forget that T builds muscle, so your weight loss will be slowed by that, but gaining muscle is a good thing. You dont want to lose weight, you want to lose FAT, and this diet will do just that for you.

Be patient with BP, it will come down in time as you stay with this way of eating and your fat intake increases.

 

[zkt]

Here are my last numbers:
154/85 66
138.84 66
147/85 63
124/84 58
141/86 57
123/87 49
148/89 55
150/92 53
144/84 59
128/81 56

thats from the last 3 days in which I was off from work. At the office the bottom number is usually around 90. Home relaxed its better. I am seeing improvement with the reduction of the coffee to only one cup per day. Also being back on the Lexapro may be helping.
I notice that if I take the BP before that one cup of joe in the morning, its about 10 points lower. So I am going to work on eliminaing the coffee alltogether.
I am still wondering if the androgel is raising the BP. Today I went back to the 4 pumps (5mg) from the 2 pumps (2.5mg) because the 2.5 I dont think is even working.

The coffee raised pulse rate which in turn raises BP. The effect is PR increase is short lived tho. Better to check befor coffee. You are close to bordrer line HT. Unless you can lower it by dietary modification and/or exercise you mightl benefit from BP lowering medications. Do you drink alcohol or take antohistamines?
As I said; stick with a consistant Tdose for a while and monitor BP.
Are you sure the monitor you are using is accurate?

 

[mqsymth]

This site lays out the diet very well!

Archevore - Archevore Diet


and no counting carbs is required!... but you do have to eat a lot more fat.

-Snip- .

Thanks for the reference !

 

[jonkobeck]

Yes I believe the monitor to be accurate. Although I checked it right behind the nurse in my doctors office and got a 15 point higher reading! I was so happy because I just figured my monitor was reading too high. But then a friend pointed out that I should have waited 10 minutes before checking because the veins were compressed from her cuff and I didnt give it enough time, lol.
So those numbers I posted above were from a 3 day weekend when I was home and relaxed.
Today I was back at work. I checked in my office 2 times
148/95
143/92
Very frustrating.
I went back up to the 5mg of testosterone, maybe I should have stayed at the lower dose for a while.

On another note, Im convinced I need an endo. My doc has only checked Free T and total T and prolactin.
Thats a far cry from all the tests I read people getting done on here.

Regarding coffee. On tonights news they had a story about the results of a new 35 year long study that concluded that even 5 cups of coffee per day will not cause hypertension!
I cant believe it

 

[jonkobeck]

Oh and no alcohol at all and no other meds except Lexapro and Zocor

 

[jonkobeck]

Just to post an update, for the last three days my BP has been stable at 125/85 and all reading have been pretty consistent at that number. On 10mg of Lexapro, 2 pumps androgel.
Im really perplexed as to why it was so high a couple weeks ago and now its normal???

The ONLY thing I can think of is the supplements. I began taking 200mg of COQ10 every day, Garlic Tabs, Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium. PErhaps there was some deficiency there?
Either that or the Lexapro has kicked in and calmed me, meaning my high BP was caused by anxiety.
2 days ago I dropped down to 5mg from 10mg of Lexapro. Lets see what happens with that lower dose.

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[LW64]

The potassium, calcium, and magnesium will interact with your BP. Chances are very good you (and the rest of us) are deficient in magnesium and, in a way somewhat analogous to vitamin D, it takes a while with supplementation to get you back to a normal level. Stick with what you've been doing and be patient. This is somethng that takes a while to correct, even with a low-carb diet. The low carb intake lowers your insulin and the lower insulin

[1] tells to kidneys to let go of more sodium, which lowers BP

[2] reverses insulin-induced growth of the smooth muscle cells that line the blood vessels which allows more blood flow and lowers BP

[3] reverses insulin-induced stimulation of norepinephrine which reduces heartbeat and lowers BP.

[4] reverses insulin-induced excretion of BONE MATRIX CHEMICALS in the smooth muscle cells that line the blood vessels and cause hardening. Less hardening = more flexibility = lower BP.

It takes time to reverse a condition you've probably had (like the rest of us!) for most of your life. Stick with the LC diet (drink lots of water!) and your BP will correct itself. It sounds like it may be happening already.

 

[jonkobeck]

Well now I notice that the BP in my right arm is considerably higher then my left, by like 20 to 30 points! So mall the readings I posted above are the lower left arm. A google search says thismcould be caused by a possible aeortic tear! Great thing for a hypochondriac to read.

 

[GirlyMan]

Well now I notice that the BP in my right arm is considerably higher then my left, by like 20 to 30 points!

That's not good. If I saw that degree of variation consistently, I'd check for cloggage and sludge.