is Androgel causing my High Blood Pressure?

[jonkobeck]

OK bear with me on this. I am 46. I was diagnosed with low T about 7 years ago but ignored it. I just had it rechecked at it was worse. My total T was 180 and normal values are 240 to 800 according to my lab. So back in October I was started on 2.5 mg (2 pumps) of androgel. Level went up to 440 Total T. I pushed the doc to let me try 5g (4 pumps) so we can get into he high range. I have been on that now for 3.5 months Just got checked and my T was 785 and Ftrr T I believe 22.0 (very good). I fell GREAT!
But about 2 weeks ago he checks my blood pressure and it was 145/90. I also was experiencing some Tachardia (although I drink alot of espresso). SO I stopped the espresso and my heart rate is fine, but the BP is still hovering around 150/90. He did a BP test in his office yesterday as follows:
Sitting138/90
Standing 144/98
Laying down 142/76
M doc is a general intern. He said maybe we should stop the androgel and see if it lowers, or we could reduce the dose. I get the feeling he is not 100% sure either. I dont want to go on BP medicine, but I hate to go back to the way I was!
Yesterday and today I didnt take the androgel. I am already starting to feel foggy.
What should I do?
Try 2 pumps a day starting tomorrow?
Im confused

 

[Rocks Off]

I was on Androgel for 4 years and never had any problems with blood pressure. I am a bit younger than you but still, it never increased greatly or decreased. Of more concern to me is your caffeine intake. I think people believe that caffeine is stimulant that has no side effects because it's legal, but cigarettes and alcohol are legal and what happens when you consume those? Your adrenal glands take a punishing when you consume large amounts of caffeine and if you do this over long periods of time, and if you drink espresso a lot, you might be over doing. I would lay off the caffeine for three weeks and see how things go from there.

Has your MD taken your cholesterol levels, both HDL and LDL as well? What about RBC levels? Triglycerides?

There can be many reasons why you're BP is crazy right now, in my opinion Tgel would be on the bottom of that list.

 

[CubbieBlue]

For me the gels caused high BP, tachycardia, and anxiety.

Again, I think for some gels cause too high DHT.

 

[jonkobeck]

I was on Androgel for 4 years and never had any problems with blood pressure. I am a bit younger than you but still, it never increased greatly or decreased. Of more concern to me is your caffeine intake. I think people believe that caffeine is stimulant that has no side effects because it's legal, but cigarettes and alcohol are legal and what happens when you consume those? Your adrenal glands take a punishing when you consume large amounts of caffeine and if you do this over long periods of time, and if you drink espresso a lot, you might be over doing. I would lay off the caffeine for three weeks and see how things go from there.

Has your MD taken your cholesterol levels, both HDL and LDL as well? What about RBC levels? Triglycerides?

There can be many reasons why you're BP is crazy right now, in my opinion Tgel would be on the bottom of that list.

Yea i typically drink two TRIPLE Latte's from Starbucks daily. SO thats SIX espressos. I have since stopped.

 

[jonkobeck]

For me the gels caused high BP, tachycardia, and anxiety.

Again, I think for some gels cause too high DHT.

Really? Hmmmm tell me more please? how much were you taking and how soon after you began taking it did you have your symptoms? Did you try lowering the dose?
Are you on anything different now?

 

[CubbieBlue]

5mg per day.

WIthin a week.

No.

Test cyp. injectable.

 

[jonkobeck]

5mg per day.

WIthin a week.

No.

Test cyp. injectable.

So your saying the injects didnt raise BP but the GEL did?
shouldnt it be the other way around for most people?

 

[jonkobeck]

5mg per day.

WIthin a week.

No.

Test cyp. injectable.

So your BP rose in a week? I have been on Androgel for 5 months and this just happened recently. wouldnt this have happened sooner if it were the HRT?

 

[Rocks Off]

5mg per day.

WIthin a week.

No.

Test cyp. injectable.

You haven't had a repeat of the high BP and tach since going on the Test C?
Did you have fluctuating test values when you were on gel or did the stay pretty even?

 

[zkt]

OK bear with me on this. I am 46. I was diagnosed with low T about 7 years ago but ignored it. I just had it rechecked at it was worse. My total T was 180 and normal values are 240 to 800 according to my lab. So back in October I was started on 2.5 mg (2 pumps) of androgel. Level went up to 440 Total T. I pushed the doc to let me try 5g (4 pumps) so we can get into he high range. I have been on that now for 3.5 months Just got checked and my T was 785 and Ftrr T I believe 22.0 (very good). I fell GREAT!
But about 2 weeks ago he checks my blood pressure and it was 145/90. I also was experiencing some Tachardia (although I drink alot of espresso). SO I stopped the espresso and my heart rate is fine, but the BP is still hovering around 150/90. He did a BP test in his office yesterday as follows:
Sitting138/90
Standing 144/98
Laying down 142/76
M doc is a general intern. He said maybe we should stop the androgel and see if it lowers, or we could reduce the dose. I get the feeling he is not 100% sure either. I dont want to go on BP medicine, but I hate to go back to the way I was!
Yesterday and today I didnt take the androgel. I am already starting to feel foggy.
What should I do?
Try 2 pumps a day starting tomorrow?
Im confused

Actually the coffee could have been masking a long standing HT problem. As strange as it sounds, caffine actually lowers BP. It raises HR, the tachycardia you mentioned, but the body responds by lowering peripherial resistance or by some other of the many BP regulatory mechanisms.
On the other hand, one or two isolated readings do not HT make. Better to get a good BP monitor and check your BP daily for a while just to make sure there is actually a problem here.
I wouldnt stop the gel suddenly. If you go this route cut the dose back to the previous level for a couple weeks and monitor BP. You shouldnt be on BP meds because of TRT.
Gel tends to higher DHT than inj or patch, perhaps due to the higher concentration of 5-reductase enzyme in the skin cells. DHT is more active than T so would be more like ly to cause HT than patch or inj. I would back off the dose to the previous level or try the patch or inj and see what happens. HT can be caused by a LOT of things. There is no immediate urgency to correct the problem. HT is a concern in the long term- not weeks or months. But dont ignore it either.

 

[jonkobeck]

Actually the coffee could have been masking a long standing HT problem. As strange as it sounds, caffine actually lowers BP. It raises HR, the tachycardia you mentioned, but the body responds by lowering peripherial resistance or by some other of the many BP regulatory mechanisms.
On the other hand, one or two isolated readings do not HT make. Better to get a good BP monitor and check your BP daily for a while just to make sure there is actually a problem here.
I wouldnt stop the gel suddenly. If you go this route cut the dose back to the previous level for a couple weeks and monitor BP. You shouldnt be on BP meds because of TRT.
Gel tends to higher DHT than inj or patch, perhaps due to the higher concentration of 5-reductase enzyme in the skin cells. DHT is more active than T so would be more like ly to cause HT than patch or inj. I would back off the dose to the previous level or try the patch or inj and see what happens. HT can be caused by a LOT of things. There is no immediate urgency to correct the problem. HT is a concern in the long term- not weeks or months. But dont ignore it either.

ZKT good points! I am off the gel yesterday and today and tonight I feel like shit! I feel like a have brain fog. SO tomorrow morning I will start up again, but instead of the usual 4 pumps I guess I will do 2 (2.5mg) which should hopefully bring me back to 450 Total T which is not the best but at least its normal,
Regarding the High Blood Pressure, About 25 years ago when I was in my 20s I had High Blood pressure. They couldn't figure out why. I was on meds for 5 years, then went off and have been off for 20 years without issues.
about 2 years ago I had a complete work-up with Echocardiogram. Have had a few over the years with no issues.
This Blood pressure thing just seems to have started up this week. Last week my pressure was 140/70 which is usually where it is. I have a feeling my anxiety and panic attacks are a big part of the blood pressure.

Today I checked in CVS it was 166 over 93 and my pulse was 60

On another note, I have GAD, (general anxiety disorder) and take lexapro for it. I was feeling so good on the androgel I stopped the lexapro. I noticed on the Lexapro I was overall much more calm and my heart rate was slower. It seems like I have alot more adrenalin flowing without the lexapro, so I am back on it.

 

[Rocks Off]

Actually the coffee could have been masking a long standing HT problem. As strange as it sounds, caffine actually lowers BP. It raises HR, the tachycardia you mentioned, but the body responds by lowering peripherial resistance or by some other of the many BP regulatory mechanisms.
On the other hand, one or two isolated readings do not HT make. Better to get a good BP monitor and check your BP daily for a while just to make sure there is actually a problem here.
I wouldnt stop the gel suddenly. If you go this route cut the dose back to the previous level for a couple weeks and monitor BP. You shouldnt be on BP meds because of TRT.
Gel tends to higher DHT than inj or patch, perhaps due to the higher concentration of 5-reductase enzyme in the skin cells. DHT is more active than T so would be more like ly to cause HT than patch or inj. I would back off the dose to the previous level or try the patch or inj and see what happens. HT can be caused by a LOT of things. There is no immediate urgency to correct the problem. HT is a concern in the long term- not weeks or months. But dont ignore it either.

I second what ZKT said, do not stop the gel cold turkey, you're test levels will crash and you will feel shitty for weeks. Taper down to the lowest amount, 2.5 grams, and see how things go.

ZKT, I'm just now hearing about all this DHT stuff, I'm a bit pissed off too. My prostate swelled up and felt like a balloon that couldn't be popped. My endo at the time was at a loss as to what do about this. Apparently all she had to do was prescribe me a 5a reductase inhibitor. The pain in my prostate led me to going off my Androgel and I've been living for the last year+ with low levels because I didn't think there was anything that could be done about the swelling. After coming onto this forum I see that injections don't bother the prostate as much as gel and that there are inhibitors that fight DHT and BPH. Of course my endo's never brought this up.

 

[CubbieBlue]

You haven't had a repeat of the high BP and tach since going on the Test C?
Did you have fluctuating test values when you were on gel or did the stay pretty even?

Dunno about the test values on gel. Great BP and no palpitations on Test C.

 

[jonkobeck]

Actually the coffee could have been masking a long standing HT problem. As strange as it sounds, caffine actually lowers BP. It raises HR, the tachycardia you mentioned, but the body responds by lowering peripherial resistance or by some other of the many BP regulatory mechanisms.
On the other hand, one or two isolated readings do not HT make. Better to get a good BP monitor and check your BP daily for a while just to make sure there is actually a problem here.
I wouldnt stop the gel suddenly. If you go this route cut the dose back to the previous level for a couple weeks and monitor BP. You shouldnt be on BP meds because of TRT.
Gel tends to higher DHT than inj or patch, perhaps due to the higher concentration of 5-reductase enzyme in the skin cells. DHT is more active than T so would be more like ly to cause HT than patch or inj. I would back off the dose to the previous level or try the patch or inj and see what happens. HT can be caused by a LOT of things. There is no immediate urgency to correct the problem. HT is a concern in the long term- not weeks or months. But dont ignore it either.

I think this week i need to look for a Doctor who specializes in TRT because my doc is really just a family doctor not too familiar with TRT. I doubt he would be familiar with the patch. Its funny because the BP just went up recently. I have been on androgel for 5 months. I would think a reaction would have happened earlier on. Today I will try the smaller dose (2 pumps ) --I already feel crappy 2 days off the gel. Brain fog, depressed etc

 

[zkt]

Hypertension is an insidious process usually producing no symptoms other than high BP while doing irreversable damage to internal organs. HT in ones twenties is cause for concern. Chronic anxiety can definatedly raise BP by excess production of epi which is converted to norepi which acts upon the a-adrenergic receptors in the vascular muscle sheath causing constriction of vessles and capillaries. An Alpha blocker such as Terazosin oftens helps when the cause is an over-reactive sympathetic nervous system, i.e., fight or flight response, and has the additional benefit of reducing prostate size in cases of BPH. These iondividuals often exhibit falsely high BP readings in the clinical setting, white coat syndrome. Another good cause to monitor it yourself. Alot of home BP monitors are crap, dont know abou the ones in stores. This is the one I use:
http://www.heartratemonitorsusa.com/lifesource-767pc.html
I little pricy but as good as the thousand dollar hospital units.
Keep us posted.

 

[DragonRider]

ZKT, I'm just now hearing about all this DHT stuff, I'm a bit pissed off too. My prostate swelled up and felt like a balloon that couldn't be popped. My endo at the time was at a loss as to what do about this. Apparently all she had to do was prescribe me a 5a reductase inhibitor.

You are very lucky your doctor didn't think about prescribing that 5ar. A quick search on finasteride will reveal that many men have suffered long term and even permanent sexual dysfunction from use of 5ar inhibitors. Some natural herbs that mimick 5ar's such as Saw Palmetto are causing the same problem.

 

[zkt]

You are very lucky your doctor didn't think about prescribing that 5ar. A quick search on finasteride will reveal that many men have suffered long term and even permanent sexual dysfunction from use of 5ar inhibitors. Some natural herbs that mimick 5ar's such as Saw Palmetto are causing the same problem.

Yes, exactly. Glad you mentioned the Fina. Bad medicine.

 

[biceps72]

androgel for 5 years = no BP problems for me.

I do a lot of cardio and I really thinks that helps

advice
a. eliminate caffiene
b reduce or eliminate alcohol
c. try and lose weight if you feel you are carrying extra pounds
d. buy a GOOD bp monitor and get a good data base of bps throughout the day. pre and post exercise,before bed, when u get up, lunch, after work-- a month of 6-8 readings/day


good luck!!

 

[jonkobeck]

Hypertension is an insidious process usually producing no symptoms other than high BP while doing irreversable damage to internal organs. HT in ones twenties is cause for concern. Chronic anxiety can definatedly raise BP by excess production of epi which is converted to norepi which acts upon the a-adrenergic receptors in the vascular muscle sheath causing constriction of vessles and capillaries. An Alpha blocker such as Terazosin oftens helps when the cause is an over-reactive sympathetic nervous system, i.e., fight or flight response, and has the additional benefit of reducing prostate size in cases of BPH. These iondividuals often exhibit falsely high BP readings in the clinical setting, white coat syndrome. Another good cause to monitor it yourself. Alot of home BP monitors are crap, dont know abou the ones in stores. This is the one I use:
http://www.heartratemonitorsusa.com/lifesource-767pc.html
I little pricy but as good as the thousand dollar hospital units.
Keep us posted.

I checked my BP tonight and it was 128/78
I really think anxiety and adrenalin are my problems.
I was on Lexapro for some time and was doing great. Then I got off it because I felt so good with the androgel. Now I am back on the Lexapro and starting to feel calm.
While on the lexapro I noticed I didnt have those periods of pounding heartbeat with breathlessness (flight or fight)-Off the lexapro and that all returned. I would like to think that my BP is brought on by anxiety more then anything.

I did have a high BP in my 20s on 2 back to back office visit occasions which prompted a 5 year run of the beta blocker. I attribute alot of that to cigarettes, being overweight, McDonalds every day (like any other 25 year old in 1987) and drinking. Latter throughout most of the 90s when I was off the meds my BP was stabile. Im not sure why I had that spike in my mid 20s. One thing for sure is I do suffer with life long panic disorder and GAD (general anxiety disorder).

 

[jonkobeck]

Just to ad another note, I was thinking about what you said about long standing hypertension:
I hope thats not the case with me. As part of my lifelong anxiety problems, I am also a hypochondriac and I obsess over my health. I remember throughout the 1990s constantly going down to the volunteer fire dept. to ask them to check my blood pressure, along with clinics and emergency rooms etc. I think I always had the fear of the high BP returning again from the 80's. Fortunately it never did. It wasnt until the last 10 years or so that I stopped obsessing over my BP and only checked it on my annual physicals where it was always within normal limits.