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Capitalism hits the fan- video
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GirlyMan
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Thanks for the link! WTF is how few seem to be interested in spending some 40 minutes listening to something they might not agree with in the interest of possibly learning something new. WTF is right. God how I hope Idiocracy was only utterly hilarious and not prescient. .
Fuck all the 'isms. They all purport to weave the one and only truly rational tapestry on foundations built from toothpicks and glue. Capitalism will work perfectly if all the participants are equally rational and no one can game anyone else. We're too smart for any more Bernie Madoffs or AIGs. Yeah, that ain't gonna happen. Communism will work perfectly if all the participants are equally empathetic and everyone appreciates every one else's individual perspective's and needs. We're too nice to tolerate any more Ananias and Sapphira assholes. Yeah, that ain't gonna happen. Christianity will work perfectly if Christians just fucking behaved Christ-like. Libertarianism, one of my personal favorites, will work perfectly if we all are equally capable of individually sustaining ourselves and we really don't give a shit what each of us does as long it doesn't turn into some sorta stink. Yeah, that ain't gonna happen.
The only 'isms worthy of any consideration whatsoever are as premiseless as possible. ... I concluded decades ago that wanting more after I already had more than I needed qualified as being an asshole, regardless of 'ism.
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GirlyMan
New Member
So consequently, you won't even listen. Brilliant strategy, replete with logical fallacies. Bravo!
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Quick! Name the country and documentary where Michael Moore took the old fuckers that couldnt afford their medications !
The only reason that the USSR blew up is because we spent them into bankruptcy.
What the fuck is with you greedy motherfuckers ?
You are handing down the same shit since mankind learned to reason.
Think of someone other than yourself. It doesnt hurt all that much and does so much good for mankind as a whole.
Greedy and selfish wont get you into anyones heaven
QUOTE=gmerits;755130]Quick, name the number of successful Marxist countries that you would want to live in. Or even that exist right now and are thriving. Now you know why I am not interested in a Marxist talking about anything.[/QUOTE]
The only reason that the USSR blew up is because we spent them into bankruptcy.
What the fuck is with you greedy motherfuckers ?
You are handing down the same shit since mankind learned to reason.
Think of someone other than yourself. It doesnt hurt all that much and does so much good for mankind as a whole.
Greedy and selfish wont get you into anyones heaven
QUOTE=gmerits;755130]Quick, name the number of successful Marxist countries that you would want to live in. Or even that exist right now and are thriving. Now you know why I am not interested in a Marxist talking about anything.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, kind of like asking me to listen to a high school medical receptionist describe to me the details of genetic engineering. Why waste my time - which is valuable - listening to somebody who has no idea what they are talking about. A Marxist thrashing capitalism - who would have thunk? So yes, when time is precious and the other side is self-destructing anyway, I have taken a break from politics to celebrate the fall of of so-called progressives. I have put in my time and eagerly await the fall of ObamaCare. Then I'm gonna party like a MF. When Obama is walked out of the White House I am gonna party so hard I won't wake up for a week.
I'm just watching the show now.
opcorn:Cant speak for GirlyMan, willing to bet he can speak for himself, but I`ll discuses any fuckin thing you like, including ; religion, politics and physics.
Rebutal by claiming your opponent is incompetant is not really an argument unlesss you can prove it- Just a waste of bandwidth.
I said that of you a long time ago:
You have a mind like concrete:
All mixed up and set hard as a rock.
But that is a characteristic of dogmatic beliefs vs those based upon reason and logical anylysis. How can you profess to be a man of science when you refuse to examine your own root beliefs?
Lets talk about that AND fascism and greed and healthcare and whatever YOU like too.
Hows that for extending the olive branch and throwing down the gauntlet?
Rebutal by claiming your opponent is incompetant is not really an argument unlesss you can prove it- Just a waste of bandwidth.
I said that of you a long time ago:
You have a mind like concrete:
All mixed up and set hard as a rock.
But that is a characteristic of dogmatic beliefs vs those based upon reason and logical anylysis. How can you profess to be a man of science when you refuse to examine your own root beliefs?
Lets talk about that AND fascism and greed and healthcare and whatever YOU like too.
Hows that for extending the olive branch and throwing down the gauntlet?
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, kind of like asking me to listen to a high school medical receptionist describe to me the details of genetic engineering. Why waste my time - which is valuable - listening to somebody who has no idea what they are talking about. A Marxist thrashing capitalism - who would have thunk? So yes, when time is precious and the other side is self-destructing anyway, I have taken a break from politics to celebrate the fall of of so-called progressives. I have put in my time and eagerly await the fall of ObamaCare. Then I'm gonna party like a MF. When Obama is walked out of the White House I am gonna party so hard I won't wake up for a week.
I'm just watching the show now.
GirlyMan
New Member
Well, at least you are consistent in your application of logical fallacies. That's something I guess. ... Nothing reasonable, but still something.
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Let's see. Successful Marxist countries: 0, Socialist countries in trouble - a shitload. America in trouble: because we started to make the move towards socialism. The history of our move towards stupidity: Read Back on the Road to Serfdom. Turns out that during the times the government meddled the publicly available statistics show less growth and a slowing down of recovery - even during the depression. Hmm... Sounds like capitalism was working just fine until a bunch of politicians in DC decided to butt in.
Marxists can kiss my a$$. I don't give one whit what they think about capitalism. You don't like capitalism and love Marxism, move to Venezuela or Cuba. I'll call you in a year and hear how happy you are. Had a talk with a vegetarian the other day who told me why eating meat was bad for me. I guess all that evolution stuff is BS I said. They shut the hell up. Not to mention the guy could not curl a frigging empty 45 lb bar. Like I said, I have 0 interest in hearing what a frigging Marxist has to say about capitalism. Let me guess: capitalism is bad. Did I get it right?
[/QUOTE]
Reality check. The world is a place of conflict. Reality check: when Socialists try to help people they end up fucking them. Reality check: what makes you think it is moral to steal from me and force me to give to others through bureaucratic machines so inefficient that about 10 pennies of my dollar actually get used and the rest is eaten up in the machine of government? Great system. Seems to be working in Europe really well. Oh wait, it's not.
And kiss my rear end. I give to my community. However, when the government decides to take from me and make my decisions of where my money will go for me, then I quit giving because the stupid pols in DC are throwing it all away. I am moral. The government is not. They may make noises about helping people, but their programs usually end up hurting the very people they are attempting to help and also throwing a whole swathe of the population into the misery pool as well. Let's take a look shall we at just one simple example: BBC News - Surgeons raise alarm over waiting
GirlyMan
New Member
Goddam if you're not a treasure trove of logical fallacies. I'm gonna start giving your posts to the Introduction to Logic students I tutor to analyze. Your posts are a lot richer than the usual contrived book examples. Please keep them coming. A few more posts and I think you will have run the gamut. ... Wait, I probably don't need any more, I'll just dig up some of your old posts I haven't read yet. I'm sure you've probably already run the gamut. You should feel proud to play a role in the education of America's youth (even if it may not be the role you might've hoped for).
Bring it on. Masters degree in Electrical Engineering. Understand Boolean Logic, Quantum Logic, The Calculus of Logic used by Godel to create his incompleteness theory. Sorry to say, but admitting that you are a part of the progressive education system does not impress. And here is something to chew on. Given the propensity of modern day philosophers and syllogistic studies to bow at the alter of relativism, it can easily be argued that your style of logic is no better than one who studies Zen, which is basically an attack on all forms of human logic. There are no absolutes as Nagarjuna so aptly demonstrated without taking a philosophical position on the matter. And as Kitaro Nishada of the Kyoto School of Japan was so easily able to gut the entire edifice of Western philosophy, I can assure you that you neither intimidate me nor impress me with you so-called teachers credentials.
Do you honestly think for a second you have the intellectual capacity to challenge anyone but your students on the concepts of logic?
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GirlyMan
New Member
I can assure you I have no desire to intimidate or impress you. And I have no "teachers credentials", I'm just a volunteer tutor at a local community college.
That is something to chew on. Thanks!
I don't think for a second that I have the intellectual capability to challenge anyone. I also doubt that there is anyone with the intellectual capability of challenging me. We're all blessed with the same wetware.
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Excellent! Then instead of a challenge, let us call it a discourse. As you have pointed out my logical fallacies (I can really see only one - the use of the medical receptionist and their lack of knowledge and comparing that to a Marxist's take on capitalism - the targets do not stand on the same epistemic grounding). Therefore, I would be interested in hearing what you have to say.
Not to avoid the issue. But, what does the MSEE think of Bells Theorem and Fait Lux?
Saw a very interesting talk on UCTV recently concerning the latter and cant get it out of my mind.
I dont think the lecture is on the internet yet . It concerns the energy density of ordinary phenomenon and results totally unexplainable by fundamental principles of electromagnetism or quantum mechanics. Light from sound and not just visible light, but x-radiation, from peeling tape. No joke.
I guess what I`m suggesting is that anything is possible; even you being right and me wrong.
But now we are back to The Issue.
Aside from that, I wonder what you actually think about this. If I didnt value your input I wouldnt bring it up, so lets put the short term shit aside for a moment.
Bells Theory is really no longer a theory - it has been shown to be true in the lab. Two quantum particles do react instantaneously to the others state once they have been entangled. This does not violate Einstein's theory of relativity which states information cannot be communicated faster than the speed of light (his wording has been updated from nothing can move faster than the speed of light). The reason? Each side of the quantum entanglement must know what change is being planned for the other side ahead of time and this communication can only be sent by standard means - electromagnetic information.
Interestingly, two things happened in physics recently that are not garnering a great deal of layman attention:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/us-atom-smasher-may-found-force-nature-report-20110406-073624-567.html
12-Year-Old Genius Expands Einstein’s Theory of Relativity, Thinks He Can Prove It Wrong - TIME NewsFeed
The first piece - a new force of nature - is along the lines of fiat lux in that there does not appear to be any current physical explanation for the phenomenon. I am not equating the two as being the same - it is likely we have two new forces or at least one force with an as yet to be explained phenomenon tied to the interaction of the existing forces. However the phenomenon of sonoluminescence is absolutely crazy. Pass sound waves through a bubble and a flash of light accompanies the bubble's burst. Of course, energy and matter are related by the square of light, and the carrier of the electromagnetic force is the exchange of photons (actually virtual photons but this is not important and will only confuse the issue). So I am not too surprised that light is released when matter is disturbed, especially since matter is held together by the EM force at the macro level (it is the EM field which stops you from being able to walk through a wall). However, I always thought the release of energy in such a state would be HUGE due to Einsteins E=mc^2 formula (think fission bomb). So what is the mechanism? Is it something to do with the zero-point energy? Who knows?
As an MSEE I have studies physics as well - in depth. Quantum electrodynamics is not a field an EE would usually study and dives deep in quantum mechanics. Relativity was an easy add-on. I studied Gauge field theories for about 1 year and started into superstring theory before giving up on that as a bunch of BS (it starts with spacetime as already existing so how can it be fundamental or a theory of everything). The real interesting studies are in loop quantum gravity - which builds spacetime from scratch (check for Lee Smolin books on Amazon - he has layman's books that cover the subject) and the study of time itself (there is a book about doing physics without including time in the equations (I forget the name but read it about five years ago). Superstring theory is boring. The many universes approach does not follow the rule of Occam's razor and seems more an attempt to make the universe as meaningless as possible (I could write an entire post about the ontological and epistemic pitfalls that destroy any belief that we will ever understand why there is something rather than nothing and why Atheism and Scientism are just as faith based as Christianity when one works within the framework of Western philosophy).
This was fun to write.
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GirlyMan
New Member
Damn man, I was just giving the guy a chance to express his non-sociopathic side.
GirlyMan
New Member
Chewed on it some, thanks again. Even talked to some of the Buddhists at their temple up the street from me. They seemed ... bemused. They're not attacking anything. I think Russell, Cantor, and eventually even Godel the Destroyer will be recognized in the future as the Great Reconcilers. The Buddhists just seem to be satisfied with intuiting what Western Philosophy seems to need to grok intellectually: that our logic is inherently and fundamentally limited. The Divine will not be found there.
My bad ... did I mention that I'm pretty much socially inept and won't pick up on these cues?
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