Kurt Havens : Test Cypionate vs Enanthate Case Report

[SmallTitsIRL]

Kurt Havens has finally share his case report on Test C vs Test E.
It looks more like a Test C + Primo vs Test E + Primo case report and looking at peak serum level rather what it looks like throughout the cycle.

Things I consider important, it wasn't controlled, so the subject could be injecting more or less of each compound. As I understood it was only one subject, so there is no individual variability taken to account.
Injection was done SubQ, I believe most of us do IM.

 

[trtchin]

What a weird approach. Why run Primo at the same time.

 

[SmallTitsIRL]

"Methenolone (Primobolan) was held constant during both phases to mitigate aromatization and support anabolic stability."

Which to me is ridiculous, the best way to mitigate aromatization is to use an aromatase inhibitor, which like the name indicates..
What I don't understand aswell is the 'support anabolic stability' claim.
ChatGPT says it's there to maintain a stable DHT derivative, but Primobolan dase increases aswell with Testosterone

 

[trtchin]

"Methenolone (Primobolan) was held constant during both phases to mitigate aromatization and support anabolic stability."

Which to me is ridiculous, the best way to mitigate aromatization is to use an aromatase inhibitor, which like the name indicates..
What I don't understand aswell is the 'support anabolic stability' claim.
ChatGPT says it's there to maintain a stable DHT derivative, but Primobolan dase increases aswell with Testosterone

I think basically Kurt ran the test on himself and we know he loves primo so he couldn't give up his TRT+

 

[SmallTitsIRL]

I think basically Kurt ran the test on himself and we know he loves primo so he couldn't give up his TRT+

It does mention an healthy middled aged man. I highly doubt it's Kurt but rather one of his clients or his co-researcher.

If it was Kurt he would've done Test Tren Anadrol. Hopefully he does some sort of podcast/interview answering questions regarding this study. From what I saw on his instagram he wasn't being very helpful

 

[IndividualMan]

Primo muddies the data. sad.
although you could argue that dosages being the same means that conditions are similar.

Cyp versus E at 600 seems about the same, (at least for free T, the stuff that matters) accounting for ester weight. E2 differences are interesting.

Also, back when he talked about this he painted it as a larger study he designed, not a n=1 case study.
Would be nice to see a larger sample.

"Methenolone (Primobolan) was held constant during both phases to mitigate aromatization and support anabolic stability."

Which to me is ridiculous, the best way to mitigate aromatization is to use an aromatase inhibitor, which like the name indicates..
What I don't understand aswell is the 'support anabolic stability' claim.
ChatGPT says it's there to maintain a stable DHT derivative, but Primobolan dase increases aswell with Testosterone

perfectly fine for a scientific case study. it can technically be used ro mitigate E2 conversion. They cant tell the individual (even if it is kurt havens himself) to run a specific compound, due to research ethics. Genuinely cant tell them (subjects) shit in regards to what to take otherwise any ethics committee worth their salt is gonna tell you to remove yourself and never do any research again. They are strict asf with that stuff.

The "support anabolic stability" is just a phrase to acknowledge that it does have anabolic properties, so noone can "um ackchually" them.

Also, the paragraph talking about the elevated E2 is faulty. either that or the ?Spreadsheet? idk how to say it (the table containing the data) is wrong as 12.4 pg/ml E2 is definitely NOT elevated. the only E2 value that could be elevated under VERY strict reference ranges would be the 200mgTestE 100mg primo one.
pretty grave mistake imo. not a good look.

I would also love to get more infos about this. Hopefully he talks about it at length in some video in the future, or maybe takes some talking time from steve in the next roundtable thingy to explain the design, clarify if any mistakes were made (table contents regarding E2), and if a larger sample is in the works.

 

[SmallTitsIRL]

Primo muddies the data. sad.
although you could argue that dosages being the same means that conditions are similar.

Cyp versus E at 600 seems about the same, (at least for free T, the stuff that matters) accounting for ester weight. E2 differences are interesting.

Also, back when he talked about this he painted it as a larger study he designed, not a n=1 case study.
Would be nice to see a larger sample.


perfectly fine for a scientific case study. it can technically be used ro mitigate E2 conversion. They cant tell the individual (even if it is kurt havens himself) to run a specific compound, due to research ethics. Genuinely cant tell them (subjects) shit in regards to what to take otherwise any ethics committee worth their salt is gonna tell you to remove yourself and never do any research again. They are strict asf with that stuff.

The "support anabolic stability" is just a phrase to acknowledge that it does have anabolic properties, so noone can "um ackchually" them.

Also, the paragraph talking about the elevated E2 is faulty. either that or the ?Spreadsheet? idk how to say it (the table containing the data) is wrong as 12.4 pg/ml E2 is definitely NOT elevated. the only E2 value that could be elevated under VERY strict reference ranges would be the 200mgTestE 100mg primo one.
pretty grave mistake imo. not a good look.

I would also love to get more infos about this. Hopefully he talks about it at length in some video in the future, or maybe takes some talking time from steve in the next roundtable thingy to explain the design, clarify if any mistakes were made (table contents regarding E2), and if a larger sample is in the works.

Totally agree with you there.

Also, carrier oils and solvents are not mentioned. One could even argue Test E was overdosed. Or that it was 2 different batches of Primobolan. There's too much unexplained, that like you said due to ethics may never be answered

 

[IndividualMan]

Totally agree with you there.

Also, carrier oils and solvents are not mentioned. One could even argue Test E was overdosed. Or that it was 2 different batches of Primobolan. There's too much unexplained, that like you said due to ethics may never be answered

yeah, was talking to someone at my med Uni a year ago about doing a similar study.
He said you would have do quantitative testing on each VIAL of gear, otherwise its open to very easy critique and not really a valuable building block for further research.
There are also big ethical concerns.

 

[pipo]