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Anabolic Steroids

Diverse stacks- do you like them? Or prefer to keep it simple? Let’s talk trends in stack building and what works for you

heavydutygorilla said:
Care to elaborate more on this tren experiment of yours? I'm currently running an experiment myself with it for my first dabble, 5mg Tren A daily, today is week 3. I'm a big believer of less is more with gear now that I'm older, back in the younger days it was just the common plan of attack to blast 500mg test e for 10 weeks, assess, then plan out the next cycle with higher doses. Since starting trt and monitoring my blood levels and dosing more religiously than prior cycles in the past, I've discovered I respond quite well(140mg weekly put me over 1400). Watched vigorous steve's video/presentation on the microdosing of tren to get the glucocorticoid receptor benefits at low dose and decided to give it a go for my first try. So far, feeling great, lifts are going up, vascularity and the look are changing almost daily. Added this in for the last stretch of my diet/cut to see what it can do. So far, extremely pleased. 3iu hgh nightly, 20mg test c daily, 5 mg tren a daily and that's it for now. Simple and effective!
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Can you give us an update on how the 5 mg/day of tren treated you?
 
Mfras said:
Howdy

TLDR: moderate diverse stacks vs ‘keep it simple’ - harm reduction and benefit maximization- what do you like and why?

Did some searching, didn’t find any juicy discussion. Of course everyone has different goals, tolerances, & responses to different compounds. I am interested in sparking a discussion and hearing opinions, history from your perspective if you’ve been around the block a few times, and what works for you- not specifically asking a question with a black & white answer. I know what I like but I’m curious how this topic changes with trends in bodybuilding and the trickle down to gym bros.

Of course the enhanced big risk taking size monsters are often starting with 1000+ test lots of primo or eq, then one or two more compounds. They are probably outside the scope of my intended topic here- I’m not so interested in talking about diversifying a stack because of diminishing returns of each compound at high dose.

I’ll start the discussion with my ideas and practice- hopefully I’ll get to hear yours!

For myself I really like the ‘keep it simple’ philosophy- anywhere from test only cruise to test & ai blasts work great, or something like test and a second compound because I want the specific effect and tolerate it well, like for example lower test and whatever amount of deca I need for a nice long bulk. Simple. My health/trt cruise phases are like this- I drop everything but some test.

But the more experience I got into experimenting with different compounds the more attractive it got to sprinkle in a little of this, a little of that into high cruise phases and blasts. It turns out that for me a little mast is like chocolate and peanut butter with almost anything- great mood lively bedroom. I found myself trying and enjoying low dose deca for smoother joints without trying to leverage strength out of it. It’s all very mild dosing but also easy to start wading into polypharmacy.

Lots of folks would rather dial in primo or eq as their AI and get some more anabolism out of controlling e2. Then there’s different tools for different jobs- examples would be Nand for wet bulk or tren for cutting or dry bulk, so many strategies that work for different people and different effects of different compounds, each with it’s own sides and risks. And some people find thresholds where benefits are there but sides are very minimal for a bunch of compounds.

Do you like to use a more diverse stack because the effects are complimentary? Or because the total anabolism gets boosted up with less risk of sides from each one? Do you have a few favorite compounds to achieve mass or a certain look but always also use mast or primo as well? Or do you keep it simple? Have you been at this long enough to see knowledge and trends change for better or worse over the years?
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I don't like to use more than 2 compounds at a time, especially for bulking. So, I keep it simple, I guess you can call it that.

What I do, is switch the secondary compound (NPP/Bold Cyp) every 6-8 weeks. By doing so, I get to control the bloat from NPP before it gets out of hand and the mental sides before they become serious.

That's the only way that I can run NPP, now that my body can't handle long 12-16 week cycles on it.

It has also saved me from upping the dosages, trying to match the power of Test NPP, with Test + something else.

In the future, I will be prioritizing my health even more, by shortening my cycle duration, say 3 months blast, 2 months cruise.
 
NightBeast666 said:
I don't like to use more than 2 compounds at a time, especially for bulking. So, I keep it simple, I guess you can call it that.

What I do, is switch the secondary compound (NPP/Bold Cyp) every 6-8 weeks. By doing so, I get to control the bloat from NPP before it gets out of hand and the mental sides before they become serious.

That's the only way that I can run NPP, now that my body can't handle long 12-16 week cycles on it.

It has also saved me from upping the dosages, trying to match the power of Test NPP, with Test + something else.

In the future, I will be prioritizing my health even more, by shortening my cycle duration, say 3 months blast, 2 months cruise.
Click to expand...
Damn you’re still making significant gains at 12 weeks on NPP and EQ? Just swapping back and forth? And keeping the gains when you go back ro cruise?
 
Mfras said:
Damn you’re still making significant gains at 12 weeks on NPP and EQ? Just swapping back and forth? And keeping the gains when you go back ro cruise?
Click to expand...
Gains are about 25% less that what would've been in a long continuous NPP cycle. But, the gains are much, much easier to keep.

The biggest benefits that I have found to this switching back and forth, is that-

1. The bloat from my NPP vanishes about 3 weeks into the EQ cycle.
2. My blood markers, mood and digestion improve significantly when I go onto EQ and before my hematocrit and systemic inflamation takes a hike, I am back to NPP, which reduces systemic inflamation.

I don't think this kind of switching is something unique, for I myself learned it from Matt Porter. I at one point was coached by him. I am sure many pros now a days do that.

Here's a video about him explaining the process-


View: https://youtu.be/Szyw3Tnl-Vg?si=jSrEkYxtD8M65Uh4


Sad thing he passed away few years back.
 
Marketpro4k said:
I’m of the mindset that stacking a variety of compounds for their unique characteristics is fine as long as you tolerate it well. Currently running:

800 test c
800 primo
400 mast
300 NPP
200 Tren

Looking and feeling great. No sides.
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This is crazy I get sides from 150mg of test
 
Marketpro4k said:
I’m of the mindset that stacking a variety of compounds for their unique characteristics is fine as long as you tolerate it well. Currently running:

800 test c
800 primo
400 mast
300 NPP
200 Tren

Looking and feeling great. No sides.
Click to expand...
Just stop. You're not "feeling great" on all that. Your bloodwork is a mess.
 
BigDadd7 said:
Just stop. You're not "feeling great" on all that. Your bloodwork is a mess.
Click to expand...
I pulled the NPP but everything else is the same. Feel incredible, look great and blood work is fine except low HDL..total cholesterol is 172 (LDL @135, HDL @16) Blood pressure also averaging 127/72.
 
NightBeast666 said:
Gains are about 25% less that what would've been in a long continuous NPP cycle. But, the gains are much, much easier to keep.

The biggest benefits that I have found to this switching back and forth, is that-

1. The bloat from my NPP vanishes about 3 weeks into the EQ cycle.
2. My blood markers, mood and digestion improve significantly when I go onto EQ and before my hematocrit and systemic inflamation takes a hike, I am back to NPP, which reduces systemic inflamation.

I don't think this kind of switching is something unique, for I myself learned it from Matt Porter. I at one point was coached by him. I am sure many pros now a days do that.

Here's a video about him explaining the process-


View: https://youtu.be/Szyw3Tnl-Vg?si=jSrEkYxtD8M65Uh4


Sad thing he passed away few years back.
Click to expand...

The big guys don't actually follow this tho. Dave Crosland did a video of what he thought of each compound.

Basically he said the only thing that worked for him: testosterone, nandralone and oxymetholone.

He said tren, insulin and HGH were a waste of time.

View: https://youtu.be/7CDREayG9lQ


1000046616.webp
 
bananafeet said:
The big guys don't actually follow this tho. Dave Crosland did a video of what he thought of each compound.

Basically he said the only thing that worked for him: testosterone, nandralone and oxymetholone.
Click to expand...
Crosland is not a good example imo.
mr. "i just pinned a little bit of everything the first two years of my gear journey" is not who I would trust with the analysis of the value individual compounds.

he is/was one big guy, of course, but the fact is most pros:

do GH (8+IU, usually 12 or more)
do test+EQ/primo/mast
and some add 19-nors or anadrol

as their growth stacks during productive offseasons/ their most improved years
 
bananafeet said:
The big guys don't actually follow this tho. Dave Crosland did a video of what he thought of each compound.

Basically he said the only thing that worked for him: testosterone, nandralone and oxymetholone.

He said tren, insulin and HGH were a waste of time
Click to expand...

I like the drugs & stuff podcast- it’s cool to see experienced coaches talk about how they use massive intuition and experience to guide average people and also outliers to success. If I remember right Dave’s thing with tren was that he kept upping his dose to rediculous levels and just got nothing from it.

For me after playing with tren I found that it shines for most people because of its SIDE effect of putting on cycle water weight on you in a spectacularly muscular looking way. I suspect lots of gym bros think this is real muscle and are sad when it leaves after the cycle.

The actual effects, in my opinion, are training performance/aggression, muscle protection in a cut, and nutrient partitioning. Since the look is temporary it’s nice but not something I’m chasing. The muscle building depends on your increased output more than a nand cycle which actually makes the bar feel lighter and helps slap meat on you that you get to mostly keep, and the nutrient partitioning is something I’d like to explore/leverage with lower dose tren in a stack to help a lean bulk stay lean.

It can also be awesome for preserving lean mass in a BRUTAL cut but I’m not in a hurry ever and prefer healthy so I won’t be exploring that.

All this makes perfect sense when you apply it to Dave. He already trains like an absolute animal (or did back when he was getting after it) so the aggression is unnecessary. He was also probably on over a gram of nandrolone and whatever else, so a temporary glycogen/water fill that would look spectacular on a shredded dude probably went unnoticed.

He was also eating just about every time his lips opened during his bulks, so nutrient partitioning was kind of irrelevant. Same with GH- staying on for months so your body learns to burn the newly available mobilized fat stores was way outside his bulk crazy frame of reference. And he was on all the strong hypertrophy drugs already so a slight boost was not noticable even at high dose.

For Dave’s goals his choices made a lot of sense.
 
IndividualMan said:
Crosland is not a good example imo.
mr. "i just pinned a little bit of everything the first two years of my gear journey" is not who I would trust with the analysis of the value individual compounds.

he is/was one big guy, of course, but the fact is most pros:

do GH (8+IU, usually 12 or more)
do test+EQ/primo/mast
and some add 19-nors or anadrol

as their growth stacks during productive offseasons/ their most improved years
Click to expand...
I was specifically responding to the video which I've watched before.

Testosterone and nandrolone are the only two compounds you can take literal grams of without massive side effects.

He abused drugs and payed the price. However he was bigger than Rich and is still alive to this day....

I was also referring to off season growth compounds not contest prep.

By big I meant really big. Not old mate who mate the video big.
 
Mfras said:
I like the drugs & stuff podcast- it’s cool to see experienced coaches talk about how they use massive intuition and experience to guide average people and also outliers to success. If I remember right Dave’s thing with tren was that he kept upping his dose to rediculous levels and just got nothing from it.

For me after playing with tren I found that it shines for most people because of its SIDE effect of putting on cycle water weight on you in a spectacularly muscular looking way. I suspect lots of gym bros think this is real muscle and are sad when it leaves after the cycle.

The actual effects, in my opinion, are training performance/aggression, muscle protection in a cut, and nutrient partitioning. Since the look is temporary it’s nice but not something I’m chasing. The muscle building depends on your increased output more than a nand cycle which actually makes the bar feel lighter and helps slap meat on you that you get to mostly keep, and the nutrient partitioning is something I’d like to explore/leverage with lower dose tren in a stack to help a lean bulk stay lean.

It can also be awesome for preserving lean mass in a BRUTAL cut but I’m not in a hurry ever and prefer healthy so I won’t be exploring that.

All this makes perfect sense when you apply it to Dave. He already trains like an absolute animal (or did back when he was getting after it) so the aggression is unnecessary. He was also probably on over a gram of nandrolone and whatever else, so a temporary glycogen/water fill that would look spectacular on a shredded dude probably went unnoticed.

He was also eating just about every time his lips opened during his bulks, so nutrient partitioning was kind of irrelevant. Same with GH- staying on for months so your body learns to burn the newly available mobilized fat stores was way outside his bulk crazy frame of reference. And he was on all the strong hypertrophy drugs already so a slight boost was not noticable even at high dose.

For Dave’s goals his choices made a lot of sense.
Click to expand...
Tren is not great for growth. All the big guys say that. Like Mishka on this forum for example. When the dose gets high you just burn through calories.

It's anti catabolic. Muscle accrual is the sum of muscle growth minus muscle breakdown. Low dose tren blocks the breakdown side of things.

So does low dose nandralone which is why it was used for cahexia.

Diet, training and the major hormones like testosterone, insulin and HGH are the main drivers. Anyway that's my understanding
 
bananafeet said:
He abused drugs and payed the price
Click to expand...
wait is he the guy with the shot kidneys on its just bodybuilding?
holy shit he was big

still, the stuff proven by pros is that GH rules, Test EQ and 19-nors are useful, and anadrol is also useful.
Tren is good for those Qatar camps where they just push food to the max, because otherwise its a bit tough to grow on high dose tren. It is a bit limited in usefulness, but under the right circumstances I would argue it can be used as a wonderful offseason drug
 
bananafeet said:
The big guys don't actually follow this tho. Dave Crosland did a video of what he thought of each compound.

Basically he said the only thing that worked for him: testosterone, nandralone and oxymetholone.

He said tren, insulin and HGH were a waste of time.

View: https://youtu.be/7CDREayG9lQ


View attachment 377728
Click to expand...

I never said that all pros do that, just that I've known many who do.

I would infact stress on the fact that what the pros do is irrelevant. The reason I follow the rapid change in compounds, is because it works excellently well for me. If it didn't, such a protocol would hold no importance to me, regardless if every pro followed it.

And that is what you have to find out for yourself- what works for you.

All the best.
 
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