Unique Test/Primo/E2 Base Cycle + EO Experiment

[BALLISTIC]

Bros note, injecting estrogen makes you want to journal your moods.

Perfectly said... Haha

 

[atruse]

Spot checking E2 (i.e. away from a sufficiently long period of stable E2-affecting drugs) can be valuable if you are keeping good notes on your physical and mental states in the days surrounding it. As long as you keep track of the various things you've been doing that would increase or decrease E2 recently, you can interpolate between the data at various spot checks. Of course, the more valuable data is when you are measured with a stable protocol for a few weeks, but I personally am not gonna sit around with low E2 for 1-2 weeks (the longest I've waited for an E2 test) before deciding to do something about it if I am reasonably sure that I have those symptoms. And doing a few spot checks during your cycle along with your MOOD DIARY will allow you to develop this intuition (or feed it to the AI).

I'm probably going to get about 6 total E2 tests on the 16 week Test/Bold/E2 cycle I'm on (and one E1 test just for the hell of it). I've had 3 so far at 5.5 weeks. I want the data!

Bros note, injecting estrogen makes you want to journal your moods.

yah the problem is I live in Canada, so I can't just get estrogen tests whenever I want. Everything has to be ordered through a doctor. Even if I want to pay for it a doctor has to order the blood work.
It was hard enough to find a doctor to get this one, since most doctors wont order blood work without some sort of reason or symptoms.
Soon as you ask for estrogen, they will assume you're on AAS's and say no, at least in my experience. Some private labs don't even offer e2 testing for men at all.
Different provinces have different rules, but unfortunately in the small town I'm in, there are minimal opportunities.

On the contrary I can get mostly all other bloodwork for free - gotta take the good with the bad.

so anyway, I do have to be mindful of using my requisitions strategically unfortunately.
I'm a data nerd as well, so believe me, it drives me nuts not having access to this, I had bloodwork 6 times last year, so I have a pretty good idea of where I'm at with everything else.

my knee joint pain is not that bad, and no other symptoms present themselves at all. So as you eluded too, I am just mindful of how I feel every day (I don't journal, but I am very aware of my physical & emotional self)

I will likely get the blood work next Monday to see if this joint pain is just from excessive exercise or not, since it's manageable, this also puts me at 5 weeks, when the ester is getting near saturation.

 

[BALLISTIC]

yah the problem is I live in Canada, so I can't just get estrogen tests whenever I want. Everything has to be ordered through a doctor. Even if I want to pay for it a doctor has to order the blood work.
It was hard enough to find a doctor to get this one, since most doctors wont order blood work without some sort of reason or symptoms.
Soon as you ask for estrogen, they will assume you're on AAS's and say no, at least in my experience. Some private labs don't even offer e2 testing for men at all.
Different provinces have different rules, but unfortunately in the small town I'm in, there are minimal opportunities.

On the contrary I can get mostly all other bloodwork for free - gotta take the good with the bad.

so anyway, I do have to be mindful of using my requisitions strategically unfortunately.
I'm a data nerd as well, so believe me, it drives me nuts not having access to this, I had bloodwork 6 times last year, so I have a pretty good idea of where I'm at with everything else.

my knee joint pain is not that bad, and no other symptoms present themselves at all. So as you eluded too, I am just mindful of how I feel every day (I don't journal, but I am very aware of my physical & emotional self)

I will likely get the blood work next Monday to see if this joint pain is just from excessive exercise or not, since it's manageable, this also puts me at 5 weeks, when the ester is getting near saturation.

Have you tried a mail service blood test. I haven't tried personally and don't know of the efficacy. But maybe an option, they mail you the kit, you bleed the kit and mail back.

I've heard of this situation often lately and thought this might be a solution.

 

[atruse]

Have you tried a mail service blood test. I haven't tried personally and don't know of the efficacy. But maybe an option, they mail you the kit, you bleed the kit and mail back.

I've heard of this situation often lately and thought this might be a solution.

yah still needs to be ordered by a Doctor lol, and the only one i found is a saliva test for e2.
there are private labs that will do this, but absurdly expensive, and again, I haven't found any who will do e2 for men.

The Dr i found to purchase this one from didn't ask any questions, so I'm hoping that I can purchase a few more off her without it being and issue.

in all my blood tests last year, through my TRT doctor, my e2 ranged from 13- 40, and I did one blast where i physically felt high e2 symptoms.
So i have a good idea "feeling" wise of my own e2 ranges...

 

[Raiders789]

Spot checking E2 (i.e. away from a sufficiently long period of stable E2-affecting drugs) can be valuable if you are keeping good notes on your physical and mental states in the days surrounding it. As long as you keep track of the various things you've been doing that would increase or decrease E2 recently, you can interpolate between the data at various spot checks. Of course, the more valuable data is when you are measured with a stable protocol for a few weeks, but I personally am not gonna sit around with low E2 for 1-2 weeks (the longest I've waited for an E2 test) before deciding to do something about it if I am reasonably sure that I have those symptoms. And doing a few spot checks during your cycle along with your MOOD DIARY will allow you to develop this intuition (or feed it to the AI).

I'm probably going to get about 6 total E2 tests on the 16 week Test/Bold/E2 cycle I'm on (and one E1 test just for the hell of it). I've had 3 so far at 5.5 weeks. I want the data!

Bros note, injecting estrogen makes you want to journal your moods.

Lmao fr injectable estrogen has me doing a fucking daily log in my word doc along with journal posts on meso. But bro please share all your results with us, especially if you are doing spot tests! The more data the better and hopefully we can convince more ppl on meso to start structuring their cycles like this.

 

[Raiders789]

I moved back into school and things have finally slowed down for me; got labs drawn yesterday now that im doing 1.3mg/week of EV so excited to get those results. Also instead of doing the draw at my trough, I pulled it one day after pinning my biweeky dose of EV so im interested to see how that impacts things.

I'm thinking about switching to estradiol cypionate just because I'm too lazy to do another dilution of my PPL EV and have to filter a ton of MCT oil. Also figured the longer half life would probably be a better for more stable E2 serum conc like my test cyp. But I feel great and will be keeping everything else the same - 200 cyp, 800 primo, 1.3 E2, 6iu gh.

Now that i'm back at the school gym, and just got blood drawn, me and my boys are gonna be doing a bit of var before the lifts for the pumps. (and the fact that there are so many hot girls at the gym - just so we can get an insane pump and talk to absolutely 0 of them)

 

[LayPave]

I moved back into school and things have finally slowed down for me; got labs drawn yesterday now that im doing 1.3mg/week of EV so excited to get those results. Also instead of doing the draw at my trough, I pulled it one day after pinning my biweeky dose of EV so im interested to see how that impacts things.

I'm thinking about switching to estradiol cypionate just because I'm too lazy to do another dilution of my PPL EV and have to filter a ton of MCT oil. Also figured the longer half life would probably be a better for more stable E2 serum conc like my test cyp. But I feel great and will be keeping everything else the same - 200 cyp, 800 primo, 1.3 E2, 6iu gh.

Now that i'm back at the school gym, and just got blood drawn, me and my boys are gonna be doing a bit of var before the lifts for the pumps. (and the fact that there are so many hot girls at the gym - just so we can get an insane pump and talk to absolutely 0 of them)

nothing wrong with a 50mg var and 10mg cialis for a solid pump booty watchin session, tho they may get a little creeped out

 

[atruse]

nothing wrong with a 50mg var and 10mg cialis for a solid pump booty watchin session, tho they may get a little creeped out

I thought girls loved being stared at?
News to me …

 

[LayPave]

I thought girls loved being stared at?
News to me …

When your getting up from a bench, face red, breathing like a water buffalo climbing the river bank after that hardcore ego lift they tend to cringe. Dont get me wrong some do... but look at some of the other guys staring,

 

[atruse]

well i may have overreacted yesterday, my knees feel fine today.... it's probably lingering soreness cus I started a short cut this week, should have known better...

Is overreacting to things a sign of high e2? hah

 

[atruse]

Well after another few days of even worse joint pain, I got my e2 checked today.
And low and behold she’s crashed.

test shows <40 pmol/L (non-sensitive)
So that’s less then 10ng/dl

Mind you it could be double or half of this.

So I’m moving up my e2 dose from 0.7mg/wk to 1.4mg/wk see what happens. I'll double my HCG dose this week to help accelerate it the pain mitigation...

This is alongside the 210/420 test primo, 1000iu hcg, and 3iu GH

Outside of this speedbump, my first impressions of primo are very positive. The aesthetic look is great, might be the best my physique has every looked, and at this dosing, i don't actually "feel" any different, my BP and HR are all good, looking forward to the next couple months on this.

EDIT: just to add to this for anyone else, this is my first time experiencing "low e2" sides, the main reason I never ran Primo to begin with. But its been a great learning experience to just be mindful of my physical self, as we discussed earlier. The nuanced pains that i hadn't experienced before, that sometimes manifest in different ways from different people.

My muscles feel very "dry" for instance, if i leave my arm bent for to long then straighten it, i can feel my bicep stretching, with an almost sandpaper feeling, like almost as if i can hear it ...

Outside of that, I haven't had any other meaningful side effects, energy, mood, libido, and even strength have all been good.

I’m going to add in some tren ace at 5mg PWO here too, once the joint pain subsides.
so will have to wait awhile for that to clear before next bloodwork

 

[LayPave]

Started at .4mg 2x weekly estradiol cyp this week. Current cycle is 420 test 250 eq 100 npp week 4 my lcms e2 was 11. Added npp at week 8 and e2 went to 15. Will get bloods next week. Eq has a heavy effect on my e2. Not expecting a whole lot with .8mg ec but interested to see where it puts me.

Lcms tested and up to 22pg/ml

 

[dvg]

My muscles feel very "dry" for instance, if i leave my arm bent for to long then straighten it, i can feel my bicep stretching, with an almost sandpaper feeling, like almost as if i can hear it ...

Do you use creatine?

 

[atruse]

Do you use creatine?

I do

 

[Raiders789]

Well after another few days of even worse joint pain, I got my e2 checked today.
And low and behold she’s crashed.

test shows <40 pmol/L (non-sensitive)
So that’s less then 10ng/dl

Mind you it could be double or half of this.

So I’m moving up my e2 dose from 0.7mg/wk to 1.4mg/wk see what happens. I'll double my HCG dose this week to help accelerate it the pain mitigation...

This is alongside the 210/420 test primo, 1000iu hcg, and 3iu GH

Outside of this speedbump, my first impressions of primo are very positive. The aesthetic look is great, might be the best my physique has every looked, and at this dosing, i don't actually "feel" any different, my BP and HR are all good, looking forward to the next couple months on this.

EDIT: just to add to this for anyone else, this is my first time experiencing "low e2" sides, the main reason I never ran Primo to begin with. But its been a great learning experience to just be mindful of my physical self, as we discussed earlier. The nuanced pains that i hadn't experienced before, that sometimes manifest in different ways from different people.

My muscles feel very "dry" for instance, if i leave my arm bent for to long then straighten it, i can feel my bicep stretching, with an almost sandpaper feeling, like almost as if i can hear it ...

Outside of that, I haven't had any other meaningful side effects, energy, mood, libido, and even strength have all been good.

I’m going to add in some tren ace at 5mg PWO here too, once the joint pain subsides.
so will have to wait awhile for that to clear before next bloodwork

I totally feel you on the "dry" muscle feeling - for me I've gotta be on top of my hydration to avoid it or it gets bad lmao. Happy to see you're cycle is going good!

 

[Raiders789]

Alright boys I got my bloods back (from 1/14)

So as of now I'm running 200 cyp, 800 primo, 1.3mg EV, and 6IU HGH. Typically would be running 325IU hcg but ran out a few weeks ago but have more on the way. And then of course the 5rosuvastatin/10ezetimibe, 12.5mcgT3/25mcgT4, 5mg cialis, 7.5mg reta(dropped from 15mg a few weeks ago). Also I added in 5mg nebivolol - this past week I've been so busy setting up my new apartment I haven't had time to do my fasted cardio and have seen my bp creep up a bit, using the nebivolol to counter that.

Also worth noting - so I got these bloods on 1/14 but two days before I got horrible food poisoning eating out in Nashville on my drive down to school. It really fucked up my sleep and I think that is what could be causing my elevated hsCRP of 6. Typically I'll see it <1 although I'm now a bit more concerned because my 4 weeks in bloods had slightly elevated hsCRP as well. I shoulda just waited to get my bloods drawn, but am gonna retest in a few weeks once I have everything settled in at school to get a true cycle baseline. I feel like the past month has been so fucking hectic but shit is finally slowing down now that the semester is starting and I've got all my shit moved.

Increasing the estradiol from 1mg/week to 1.3mg/week hasn't really changed much. I do feel like my libido is comparatively "worse" (feels great but was a bit better on 1mg/week). Its worth noting that I got these bloods taken 24hrs after my biweekly injection, where my last bloods I pulled 3.5days after my biweekly injection and got a hsE2 of 22pg/ml. Also I haven't been using hcg the past two weeks. I have 2 more pre-mixed injections of the 200cyp/800primo/1.3mgEV so I'll stick with that for the next week, but when I make my new premix I'm gonna drop the EV back to 1mg/week.

Not too concerned about anything else - lmao I know I said I'd take a few rest days before these bloods but I ran back the day before which could be bumping my my AST a bit, not too worried abt that. Was a bit dehydrated when getting these bloods which could be causing my higher hct, usually I never see it over 47 even on intense cycles but not concerned. I've been doing 130mg iron with 500mg vitamin C every other morning so a bit concerned to see my iron/sat low, but I'll retest in a few weeks and add in a B12 and folate.

Regardless, I feel great - gains have been consistent despite being so preoccupied with moving these past few weeks. Am about 206lbs now at ~11-12%bf - although nothing crazy I've definitely put on a tiny bit of fat. Just fleeced someone on fb marketplace for a brand new Sole E25 for $100 so back to my 30mins fasted LISS every morning.