MESO-Rx

Anabolic Steroids

PhD in sport science but still clueless

dh1091

dh1091

New Member
Hi Meso,

Stumbled upon Meso ~2months ago and have enjoyed reading through the threads.

I have a PhD in sport science but never cared to learn about enhanced training. Ive been lifting since high school and playing team sports since grade school.

I just Recently finished my phd (34 years old), got a physical done along with labs and to my surprise i had a poor hormonal panel.

Have had labs twice now, and Total T in low 400s, free T in single digits, E2 <25. And had numerous symptoms - gaining fat, hard to put on muscle, very low libido, no morning wood.

Been taking training alot more seriously since school finished. Body fat % down from 22 to 16%, been on a more regimented lifting routine (4×/wk) and consistent with bjj again (3-4×/wk | blue belt)

My urologist put me on enclo 12mg ED. But naturally I drifted towards exogenous T therapy. So im here to learn from real world users since published data only tells us 1 side of the story.

Cheers!
 
Elektrobot said:
View attachment 363475
View attachment 363477
View attachment 363478View attachment 363479View attachment 363480
View attachment 363489View attachment 363490View attachment 363491
Click to expand...
If you had the same calorie deficit and did the same cardio routine, why would you burn more fat? What is inherently different about being in a fasted state that you think causes more fat loss?
Fasting for long periods lowers ghrelin and neuropeptide-Y levels, making someone feel less hungry and more likely to maintain a caloric deficit.
 
flexi said:
If you had the same calorie deficit and did the same cardio routine, why would you burn more fat? What is inherently different about being in a fasted state that you think causes more fat loss?
Fasting for long periods lowers ghrelin and neuropeptide-Y levels, making someone feel less hungry and more likely to maintain a caloric deficit.
Click to expand...

In a calorie deficit, fasted cardio amplifies fat loss because low insulin makes lipolysis easier, so more free fatty acids are released and used as fuel during the workout. Since you’re already in a deficit, those fatty acids are less likely to be ‘replaced’ later, meaning a higher share of the deficit comes from body fat.
 
I'm tired and don't have the eloquence to write it out myself

- also not claiming this is absolute fact. My post was more of a joke as it's a continual bro science argument.

I do feel like I've always got better results out of fasted cardio, especially after starting GH

The prompt was: how does fasted cardio burn more fat in athletes who use growth hormone and other anabolic steroids


✅​


1. Growth hormone naturally spikes during fasting and sleep​


GH is lipolytic (fat-mobilizing).
When someone does cardio while fasting:


  • Insulin is low
  • GH is naturally higher
  • Low insulin + higher GH = more release of stored fatty acids

If someone is using exogenous GH​


They’re starting the session with even more GH than normal → meaning:


  • Extra stimulation of lipolysis
  • More fat is broken down and released into the bloodstream
  • Not automatically more calories burned — just more available fat for fuel




✅​


Fasted cardio can sometimes increase muscle breakdown in natural athletes because:


  • Low insulin
  • Low amino acids
  • Cortisol is higher in the morning

Steroids reduce this catabolic risk​


AAS (testosterone, trenbolone, etc.) increase nitrogen retention and suppress muscle breakdown, so enhanced athletes:


  • Lose less muscle during fasted cardio
  • Can do longer or more frequent sessions without as much muscle loss
  • May be more comfortable using fat as fuel since muscle is more protected

That’s why enhanced bodybuilders often feel like fasted cardio “burns more fat” — because they aren’t risking muscle loss the same way a natural athlete would.
 
Ghoul said:
In a calorie deficit, fasted cardio amplifies fat loss because low insulin makes lipolysis easier, so more free fatty acids are released and used as fuel during the workout. Since you’re already in a deficit, those fatty acids are less likely to be ‘replaced’ later, meaning a higher share of the deficit comes from body fat.
Click to expand...
The issue is what the body starts to do once fed. While you do burn more fat during the workout, your body compensates (overcompensates in cases of long-term fasting) and burns more glucose to replenish what was depleted during the workout, causing less fat burn for the rest of the day than someone who wasn't fasted. It's about homeostasis more than anything. It is hard to judge whether the fat burned initially makes up for it. Most studies on exercise have so many variables that can’t be controlled that it is hard to know tbh.
 
Elektrobot said:
I'm tired and don't have the eloquence to write it out myself

- also not claiming this is absolute fact. My post was more of a joke as it's a continual bro science argument.

I do feel like I've always got better results out of fasted cardio, especially after starting GH

The prompt was: how does fasted cardio burn more fat in athletes who use growth hormone and other anabolic steroids


✅​


1. Growth hormone naturally spikes during fasting and sleep​


GH is lipolytic (fat-mobilizing).
When someone does cardio while fasting:


  • Insulin is low
  • GH is naturally higher
  • Low insulin + higher GH = more release of stored fatty acids

If someone is using exogenous GH​


They’re starting the session with even more GH than normal → meaning:


  • Extra stimulation of lipolysis
  • More fat is broken down and released into the bloodstream
  • Not automatically more calories burned — just more available fat for fuel




✅​


Fasted cardio can sometimes increase muscle breakdown in natural athletes because:


  • Low insulin
  • Low amino acids
  • Cortisol is higher in the morning

Steroids reduce this catabolic risk​


AAS (testosterone, trenbolone, etc.) increase nitrogen retention and suppress muscle breakdown, so enhanced athletes:


  • Lose less muscle during fasted cardio
  • Can do longer or more frequent sessions without as much muscle loss
  • May be more comfortable using fat as fuel since muscle is more protected

That’s why enhanced bodybuilders often feel like fasted cardio “burns more fat” — because they aren’t risking muscle loss the same way a natural athlete would.
Click to expand...
Yeah I don't know as an absolute fact either. I am more or less interested in learning because I have very rudimentary knowledge in this subject and I wanted to hear out the argument. I didn't know about the less muscle loss part and will read more about it. I thought it would still hurt even on AAS I only have read about how the body prioritizes fat differently fasted and after feeding.
 
flexi said:
your body compensates (overcompensates in cases of long-term fasting) and burns more glucose to replenish what was depleted during the workout,
Click to expand...
Depends on what you do. low intensity steady state uses mostly fat, even when fed.

flexi said:
causing less fat burn for the rest of the day than someone who wasn't fasted
Click to expand...

This is an interesting study that has some data to show otherwise

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Exercise Increases 24-h Fat Oxidation Only When It Is Performed Before Breakfast - PubMed

Under energy-balanced conditions, 24-h fat oxidation was increased by exercise only when performed before breakfast. Transient carbohydrate deficits, i.e., glycogen depletion, observed after morning exercise may have contributed to increased 24-h fat oxidation.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Elektrobot said:
Depends on what you do. low intensity steady state uses mostly fat, even when fed.



This is an interesting study that has some data to show otherwise

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Exercise Increases 24-h Fat Oxidation Only When It Is Performed Before Breakfast - PubMed

Under energy-balanced conditions, 24-h fat oxidation was increased by exercise only when performed before breakfast. Transient carbohydrate deficits, i.e., glycogen depletion, observed after morning exercise may have contributed to increased 24-h fat oxidation.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Click to expand...
After reading through the methodology in the full text, I'm pleasantly surprised. Very hard to find a study measuring exercise without issues that impact the outcome. I am starting to think you are correct in your earlier post about fasted cardio.

Exercise Increases 24-h Fat Oxidation Only When It Is Performed Before Breakfast - PMC

As part of the growing lifestyle diversity in modern society, there is wide variation in the time of day individuals choose to exercise. Recent surveys in the US and Japan have reported that on weekdays, more people exercise in the evening, with ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
A study published by my former professor Dr. Schoenfeld investigated "Body composition changes associated with fasted versus non-fasted aerobic exercise"

When calories are equated, the difference in how much weight and fat mass the 2 groups lost after 4 weeks were similar with neither group demonstrating superiority

link.springer.com

Body composition changes associated with fasted versus non-fasted aerobic exercise - Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition

It has been hypothesized that performing aerobic exercise after an overnight fast accelerates the loss of body fat. The purpose of this study was to investigate changes in fat mass and fat-free mass following four weeks of volume-equated fasted versus fed aerobic exercise in young women adhering...
link.springer.com link.springer.com
 
In the context of rHGH it’s different however.

Post dose, once fasting state is broken and insulin rises, GH is quickly converted to IGF, blunting the direct lipolytic effects of GH on fat cells.

Body composition improvement is a universal feature of rHGH treatment, in sick or healthy subjects, mostly attributed to fat loss (though not weight loss).

The mechanism for that is entirely due to GH, not IGF, and the degree to which fat loss occurs tracks with GH dose.

So slowing the conversion of GH to IGF by staying fasted for as much of the elevated GH window of time post injection as possible, to preserve its direct effects, and utilizing the flood of FFAs during that window seems to be the way to maximize the benefit.

With or without cardio fasting prolongs the enhanced lipolysis of GH, that’s the key, but what better time to burn off FFAs than when they’re abundant?

Cardio then or later may not make a huge difference, but one more little factor that as a habit, cumulatively, over the long term can really add up. I’ve never gotten as lean, or anywhere close, as easily and quickly as with rHGH and fasted cardio. (After 6 months of rHGH cardio without fasting)
 
Ghoul said:
In the context of rHGH it’s different however.

Post dose, once fasting state is broken and insulin rises, GH is quickly converted to IGF, blunting the direct lipolytic effects of GH on fat cells.

Body composition improvement is a universal feature of rHGH treatment, in sick or healthy subjects, mostly attributed to fat loss (though not weight loss).

The mechanism for that is entirely due to GH, not IGF, and the degree to which fat loss occurs tracks with GH dose.

So slowing the conversion of GH to IGF by staying fasted for as much of the elevated GH window of time post injection as possible, to preserve its direct effects, and utilizing the flood of FFAs during that window seems to be the way to maximize the benefit.

With or without cardio fasting prolongs the enhanced lipolysis of GH, that’s the key, but what better time to burn off FFAs than when they’re abundant?

Cardio then or later may not make a huge difference, but one more little factor that as a habit, cumulatively, over the long term can really add up. I’ve never gotten as lean, or anywhere close, as easily and quickly as with rHGH and fasted cardio. (After 6 months of rHGH cardio without fasting)
Click to expand...
Very likely that you are correct.

Ive never investigated anabolics or any method of enhanced training. Excited to learn from you all
 
Hold the fucking phone. A PhD not claiming to know everything and calling everyone else an idiot?

You’re alright in my book. Welcome.
No Problem Yes GIF by Vevo
 
dh1091 said:
Lol had great mentors who humble you very quickly. A PhD knows ALOT ALOT about a very niche topic. But very very little about everything else.
Click to expand...
In my experience, both professionally and in the fitness industry, you sir are an anomaly if you think this way. It is appreciated.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
New Member from one of the islands
Replies
2
Views
41
amicedrot
A
C
new member
Replies
0
Views
18
cbol
C
L
An Unexpected Interest
Replies
6
Views
108
LeSportifMC_6192615
L
A
Best recommendation for Combat sports
Replies
6
Views
165
Rand
R
S
From Fat Fuck to Questionable PED Decisions
2
Replies
23
Views
727
safet
S

Sponsors

Latest posts

Back
Top