Old lady first-timer bikini log

[Nunya]

Has your hrt or hormone levels been affected by any of this? I see women who say they burn through or need more than others because of athleticism or physical activity. None of these women compete afaik. I always wonder if they’re full of shit, and don’t want to admit that they just want to run higher T.

I'm of an age where my hormone levels were declining anyway (estrogen/progesterone) so I've been on hrt with all three for over a year now, and T alone for several years. I started with those godawful pellets from a local clinic, and switched to injx a year ago so I'm running LOWER T than I was then.

For SURE I started burning through those pellets FASTER when I started lifting heavy. Now that I'm super lean I can feel all the scars in my glutes from those damned things.

I couldn't say if my hormones have been affected by prep; I'm sure my endogenous production has been affected. I haven't had a normal period in over a year; one of the advantages of being older is that they were on their way out anyway and fertility is not anything I care about. HRT is much more about maintaining quality of life for me, and estrogen is just as important as if not more so than T.

But there's no way this level of leanness WOULDN'T affect hormones. It's definitely f*cked with me mentally the last week. I am just not a capable human being right now.

I chose not to alter my HRT regimen for this first prep. Estrogen/T/P I've kept the same. I suppose that means they're maybe HIGHER since I've kept the dose the same as my mass has shrunk. But I can't say. I did some digging around and while it looked like there were some programs advocating for messing with hormones during prep, that just seemed like too many variables to me. This week my coach (who knows all wrt to me) will be relying on old school water and salt and carb manipulation. If my estrogen IS higher due to same dose and lower body mass, it's not affecting how I hold water. I'm just gross right now, covered in dick skin. Right now I'm consuming 2 gallons of water a day and a lot of LMNT. Tonight I check in and get final days protocol.

I'll be pulling labs early next week post-show to see where I'm at and will report back. MAYBE there will be an indication for next prep, with respect to hormone manipulation but I would rather stay away from all that, including thyroid hormone stuff, if at all possible.

 

[Stealth500]

But there's no way this level of leanness WOULDN'T affect hormones.

I thought if taking exogenous hormones being at a lower body fat should be irrelevant. I know when women lean down it effects natural hormones so when i see all the women competing in multiple shows and lean year round I assume they are all on hrt.

 

[BigDadd7]

I thought if taking exogenous hormones being at a lower body fat should be irrelevant. I know when women lean down it effects natural hormones so when i see all the women competing in multiple shows and lean year round I assume they are all on hrt.

The HPTA axis a lot more than just estrogen and test. You can't balance all of that. Being too lean for too long is a health challenge.

 

[Stealth500]

Being too lean for too long is a health challenge.

but does that effect estrogen levels when not relying on endogenous hormones. as my question was in response to her saying that other prep protocols called for an increase in hormones I'm curious more specifically about if E2 would need to increase as naturally e2 drops when women get lean.

 

[Nunya]

but does that effect estrogen levels when not relying on endogenous hormones. as my question was in response to her saying that other prep protocols called for an increase in hormones I'm curious more specifically about if E2 would need to increase as naturally e2 drops when women get lean.

The thing is, in perimenopause, there’s no TELLING what the hormones will do. My body could decide NOW is a great time to spike some estrogen, or NOW is a great time to spike some progesterone, and that’s independent of exogenous HRT, it’s just the dying gasps of a major internal organ system, a process every woman goes through when she still has HALF HER LIFE TO LIVE. Just crazy to me. And for most of us, our mothers told us ZERO about this, our doctors tell us we’re crazy, etc. etc. Thank goodness for online providers but even that space is getting predatory, since fHRT and menopause are the big ‘it’ things now.

The HPTA axis a lot more than just estrogen and test. You can't balance all of that. Being too lean for too long is a health challenge.

Absolutely. I’ve never been this lean. My body and my brain are telling me some pretty wild things to alert me that this is not good. I like FEELING strong more than I like LOOKING strong, and although I look like my favorite Marvel Comic heroines right now, it is absolutely not sustainable and post-show I have a reverse plan in place, part thanks to @Slowww ’s info here, my own coach, my own knowledge of my nutrition needs, TDEE, etc. I am a meticulous tracker of all that.

 

[Superchicken]

I'm of an age where my hormone levels were declining anyway (estrogen/progesterone) so I've been on hrt with all three for over a year now, and T alone for several years. I started with those godawful pellets from a local clinic, and switched to injx a year ago so I'm running LOWER T than I was then.

For SURE I started burning through those pellets FASTER when I started lifting heavy. Now that I'm super lean I can feel all the scars in my glutes from those damned things.

I couldn't say if my hormones have been affected by prep; I'm sure my endogenous production has been affected. I haven't had a normal period in over a year; one of the advantages of being older is that they were on their way out anyway and fertility is not anything I care about. HRT is much more about maintaining quality of life for me, and estrogen is just as important as if not more so than T.

But there's no way this level of leanness WOULDN'T affect hormones. It's definitely f*cked with me mentally the last week. I am just not a capable human being right now.

I chose not to alter my HRT regimen for this first prep. Estrogen/T/P I've kept the same. I suppose that means they're maybe HIGHER since I've kept the dose the same as my mass has shrunk. But I can't say. I did some digging around and while it looked like there were some programs advocating for messing with hormones during prep, that just seemed like too many variables to me. This week my coach (who knows all wrt to me) will be relying on old school water and salt and carb manipulation. If my estrogen IS higher due to same dose and lower body mass, it's not affecting how I hold water. I'm just gross right now, covered in dick skin. Right now I'm consuming 2 gallons of water a day and a lot of LMNT. Tonight I check in and get final days protocol.

I'll be pulling labs early next week post-show to see where I'm at and will report back. MAYBE there will be an indication for next prep, with respect to hormone manipulation but I would rather stay away from all that, including thyroid hormone stuff, if at all possible.

Being able to feel those pellet scars is wild. Yikes.

I knew you were on hrt. I guess I wondered more along the lines of if you felt any different/worse, or if being on hormonal support kept you at a more even level. Will be interesting to see how or if your values changed with your tests.

Congrats on your no more cycles, I’m jealous.

 

[Nunya]

Being able to feel those pellet scars is wild. Yikes.

I knew you were on hrt. I guess I wondered more along the lines of if you felt any different/worse, or if being on hormonal support kept you at a more even level. Will be interesting to see how or if your values changed with your tests.

Congrats on your no more cycles, I’m jealous.

Well I’m not completely free of them yet, they’re just weird, few and far between, and clearly sputtering.

As for being able to compare being this lean on HRT vs not on HRT, this is my first time doing this, so I have no point of reference to compare it to.

Just got back from a DEXA, which had my body fat at 13%, not too far off coach’s caliper reading of 10.7%. Good news bad news; lost a lot of fat, but also lost a few lbs of lean mass in exactly where I do NOT want to lose it, that booty Oh well, back to gaining soon enough!

 

[thejumpingsheep]

The thing is, in perimenopause, there’s no TELLING what the hormones will do. My body could decide NOW is a great time to spike some estrogen, or NOW is a great time to spike some progesterone, and that’s independent of exogenous HRT, it’s just the dying gasps of a major internal organ system, a process every woman goes through when she still has HALF HER LIFE TO LIVE. Just crazy to me. And for most of us, our mothers told us ZERO about this, our doctors tell us we’re crazy, etc. etc. Thank goodness for online providers but even that space is getting predatory, since fHRT and menopause are the big ‘it’ things now.


Absolutely. I’ve never been this lean. My body and my brain are telling me some pretty wild things to alert me that this is not good. I like FEELING strong more than I like LOOKING strong, and although I look like my favorite Marvel Comic heroines right now, it is absolutely not sustainable and post-show I have a reverse plan in place, part thanks to @Slowww ’s info here, my own coach, my own knowledge of my nutrition needs, TDEE, etc. I am a meticulous tracker of all that.

Thanks for all the logs and I wish you the best. My wife is going through a lot the issues you are having, albeit she is younger and we have found that doctors and society has really failed women on the medicine side of things. Just not enough data and testing and many of the doctors have no idea what to do and are going by old textbooks which dont work. And like you said, older women, for some unholy reason, dont tell their kids the truth or hide it for some of the stupidest reasons... my mom and mom-in law literally told us they didnt want to scare my wife from having kids so they didnt tell her of their problems... the fucking stupidity of that line of thought... how the fuck can we fix things if you dont tell the truth? Its very frustrating to watch my wife struggle.

As for your "feels" I just wanted to add some anecdotal experiences. Im male, and late 40s and no matter what I do, even at comfortable weight and BF%, my body is always tired. Its always telling me to stop. It doesnt matter if Im strong as an ox and that I look like a 20 something athlete. Doesnt matter if I eat right. It doesnt matter what im injecting. Even in cycle when im loaded on T, Primo, Tren, and Deca... I feel no boost in energy at all. Im stronger. Im faster. My body looks good on the outside... but on the inside I dont want to go to the gym or pick things off the floor.

Like you, I would prefer to "feel" strong and healthy rather than look it. But I havent figured out how to get those feelings back. They stopped in my mid 30s. I guess what im trying to say, and I hope I am wrong, it might have nothing to do with your hormones or bf% or anything else... it could just be that we are getting old'er... I hope you find a way to feel better and certainly if you figure it out please share.

Best of luck on your competition.

 

[Nunya]

Oh it’s 100% my low body fat that has got me feeling like a ghost, that and low carbs. I’m betting as soon as I start carbing up for the show, I’ll come back to life. Normally I’m pretty dialed in and crushing life HRT/TRT is a good part of it, plenty of other life factors contributing. It’s a full time hobby but well worth it

 

[Stealth500]

The thing is, in perimenopause, there’s no TELLING what the hormones will do. My body could decide NOW is a great time to spike some estrogen, or NOW is a great time to spike some progesterone, and that’s independent of exogenous HRT, it’s just the dying gasps of a major internal organ system, a process every woman goes through when she still has HALF HER LIFE TO LIVE. Just crazy to me. And for most of us, our mothers told us ZERO about this, our doctors tell us we’re crazy, etc. etc. Thank goodness for online providers but even that space is getting predatory, since fHRT and menopause are the big ‘it’ things now.

It's certainly a complicated matter to navigate. Honestly with all the gatekeeping and getting directed to articles about 50+ menopausal women and transgender affirming protocols I'm kind of burnt out looking for answers on the subject. In my situation, as the mrs.has zero grasp of the english language the burdon of researching falls on me.

 

[Nunya]

It's certainly a complicated matter to navigate. Honestly with all the gatekeeping and getting directed to articles about 50+ menopausal women and transgender affirming protocols I'm kind of burnt out looking for answers on the subject. In my situation, as the mrs.has zero grasp of the english language the burdon of researching falls on me.

Good on you for being willing to dig in to that! Not too many guys out there can say “hey baby, I’m willing to science the shit out of our sex life” or even “hey baby how can I help you live better through chemistry”

Feels and labs, honestly. If the Mrs. is good at documenting the feels, and is willing to get regular labs, and you can do the math, there you go. And if you’re willing to slog through the female equivalent of bro science and listen to a few podcasts with influencers in the space on your drive to work or whatever, you’ll have just about as good a grasp as anybody. The female body is a mysterious one But open communication will get you pretty far.

 

[BigDadd7]

Good on you for being willing to dig in to that! Not too many guys out there can say “hey baby, I’m willing to science the shit out of our sex life” or even “hey baby how can I help you live better through chemistry”

Feels and labs, honestly. If the Mrs. is good at documenting the feels, and is willing to get regular labs, and you can do the math, there you go. And if you’re willing to slog through the female equivalent of bro science and listen to a few podcasts with influencers in the space on your drive to work or whatever, you’ll have just about as good a grasp as anybody. The female body is a mysterious one But open communication will get you pretty far.

That's the truth. I navigate this space for my post menopausal girl and it is a challenge at times. Estrogen, progesterone, testosterone... change one thing and you change everything. We have been doing this nice and slow for a year now. Small changes, patience, repeat bloodwork, evaluate, make adjustments, rinse-lather-repeat. It's definitely not a sprint.

 

[Nunya]

That's the truth. I navigate this space for my post menopausal girl and it is a challenge at times. Estrogen, progesterone, testosterone... change one thing and you change everything. We have been doing this nice and slow for a year now. Small changes, patience, repeat bloodwork, evaluate, make adjustments, rinse-lather-repeat. It's definitely not a sprint.

Yep - at least post menopause the target stops moving quite so much! While the basic concepts may be similar across the board, women are so unique in their responses to some of the hormones that IMO the DIY approach is the best approach, IF the education and reasoning skills are there. Those are some big caveats

Take progesterone for example; for some women it’s a game changer for sleep and all the nice things. For others, like me, *oral* progesterone is a shortcut to Lady Psycho and to be avoided at all costs.

Self awareness about our bodies is not something we’ve been encouraged to develop, at least not in an evaluative sense, mostly just in a judgmental sense.

 

[BigDadd7]

Oral progesterone (300) has been the sweet spot for us. We went from insomnia (and cranky!) to sleeping like a baby. I am grateful we are doing this post menopause. I can't imagine the hell of negotiating a moving target.

 

[Stealth500]

Good on you for being willing to dig in to that! Not too many guys out there can say “hey baby, I’m willing to science the shit out of our sex life” or even “hey baby how can I help you live better through chemistry”

Feels and labs, honestly. If the Mrs. is good at documenting the feels, and is willing to get regular labs, and you can do the math, there you go. And if you’re willing to slog through the female equivalent of bro science and listen to a few podcasts with influencers in the space on your drive to work or whatever, you’ll have just about as good a grasp as anybody. The female body is a mysterious one But open communication will get you pretty far.

2 blood tests so far ; not much change. Luckily we can get those done quite cheap. A couple issues to iron out.

I saw you mention you have have high cholesterol. Did you notice any improvements at all from supplementing E2?

Because I keep seeing the "don't get on estradiol if cholesterol is high due to risk of blood clots and strokes ect."

While another article will say that HRT will help balance cholesterol.
Having low e2 can cause high cholesterol because it's not being converted into e2 but, when utilizing the exogenous source the conversion isn't happening either.

So i'm sort of unclear on this point.

 

[Nunya]

2 blood tests so far ; not much change. Luckily we can get those done quite cheap. A couple issues to iron out.

I saw you mention you have have high cholesterol. Did you notice any improvements at all from supplementing E2?

Because I keep seeing the "don't get on estradiol if cholesterol is high due to risk of blood clots and strokes ect."

While another article will say that HRT will help balance cholesterol.
Having low e2 can cause high cholesterol because it's not being converted into e2 but, when utilizing the exogenous source the conversion isn't happening either.

So i'm sort of unclear on this point.

I *had high LDL. But also high Lp(a) and family history of heart disease. Sex hormones aren't gonna help with that. A statin and repatha, prescribed after a startling Ca CT scan result and blood testing for lp(a) that I'd done myself and then had my pcp confirm, have my lipid panel green across the board. And hopefully, since my subsequent NM stress test showed my heart is healthier than the cast majority my age and sex, I'll carry around my current load of plaque in my LAD without event, and without contributing to it.

 

[Nunya]

UPDATE:

My first show was amazing and I'm hooked. Would've maybe been better to not have done so well because I don't really need another serious hobby

Won every division I entered plus the Overall. Granted, it was a small show and most in my category were also novices but it was still pretty cool to sweep it. Super cool for my coach too, so happy to have contributed to his team.

Now that I've been on stage and gotten some feedback from the judges, it's onward and upward. I'm looking forward to learning about a proper reverse (can I just start building NOW?!?!) and getting back to building more booty Also, my posing and transitions and walking need more work, a LOT more work.

I'm qualified for National level events for next year and I'm just dumb enough / brave enough to want to do it, even if it means getting clobbered. But I am betting I can do alright so let's go!

 

[mok4315]

Great job lady! It’s been awesome following your journey and seeing you absolutely kick ass!

 

[BigDadd7]

UPDATE:

My first show was amazing and I'm hooked. Would've maybe been better to not have done so well because I don't really need another serious hobby

Won every division I entered plus the Overall. Granted, it was a small show and most in my category were also novices but it was still pretty cool to sweep it. Super cool for my coach too, so happy to have contributed to his team.

Now that I've been on stage and gotten some feedback from the judges, it's onward and upward. I'm looking forward to learning about a proper reverse (can I just start building NOW?!?!) and getting back to building more booty Also, my posing and transitions and walking need more work, a LOT more work.

I'm qualified for National level events for next year and I'm just dumb enough / brave enough to want to do it, even if it means getting clobbered. But I am betting I can do alright so let's go!

Bitchen

 

[BendigoShafter]

Congratulations!

I just found this thread and that was a heck of a thing to read on the last page.

I'm sending it to my wife as inspiration for her HRT journey.