MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
First time HGH
- Thread starter Rooster77
- Start date
ve79
Member
I just started back on 2ius and I feel great. I wonder how long it would take to see anything with 2ius except being cognitive
Ghoul
Member
Tesamorelin 2mg is roughly the same boost to growth hormone / IGF as 2iu rHGH, though the effects are a tilted more strongly toward visceral fat reduction vs rHGH having a broader range of effects, and it took about 4 months of Tesa for the impact to go from maybe / “Feels” to undeniable visible benefits.
I strongly recommend @Rooster77 and anyone else going down this road to get a baseline IGF-1 blood test before starting. It’s your only chance to know you started so you can get an objective measure of rHGH (or Tesa) having an impact.
Don’t get lazy, if you don’t do this, while not a catastrophe, you’ll probably regret not getting a “clean” IGF number before you ever touch rHGH.
A month or so after starting, if you’re wondering “is this working”, for ~$60 you can see a concrete number that will remove any doubt. IGF also serves as an indicator of other factors that may be blunting the GH effect, so you can troubleshoot the root cause of a poor response (as a bonus, this may reveal health issues you were unaware of like hypothyroidism or fatty liver). Conversely, if you’re a hyper responder you may decide to dial your dose back a little for safety. You want your IGF “Z score”, a positive number indicates how far above your peer average IGF is, to be as close as possible to 2, but absolutely not over 3, for max benefit with minimal long term risk.
There are a number of services offering easy to schedule discount blood work at a lab convienient to you, I use this one, there’s always a 20% off coupon going so use it:
IGF-1 Test
The IGF-1 Test checks growth factor levels, providing insight into growth disorders, hormone balance, pituitary health, aging, and overall metabolic function.
www.ultalabtests.com
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ve79
Member
At 4ius I felt horrible and too much tightness around the rists and forarms. At 2 I feel great a little tingle in the fingers but tolerable. I think also with the senergenic effects of anabolics will also have some profound effectsTesamorelin 2mg is roughly the same boost to growth hormone / IGF as 2iu rHGH, though the effects are a tilted more strongly toward visceral fat reduction vs rHGH having a broader range of effects, and it took about 4 months of Tesa for the impact to go from maybe / “Feels” to undeniable visible benefits.
I strongly recommend @Rooster77 and anyone else going down this road to get a baseline IGF-1 blood test before starting. It’s your only chance to know you started so you can get an objective measure of rHGH (or Tesa) having an impact.
Don’t get lazy, if you don’t do this, while not a catastrophe, you’ll probably regret not getting a “clean” IGF number before you ever touch rHGH.
A month or so after starting, if you’re wondering “is this working”, for ~$60 you can see a concrete number that will remove any doubt. IGF also serves as an indicator of other factors that may be blunting the GH effect, so you can troubleshoot the root cause of a poor response (as a bonus, this may reveal health issues you were unaware of like hypothyroidism or fatty liver). Conversely, if you’re a hyper responder you may decide to dial your dose back a little for safety. You want your IGF “Z score”, a positive number indicates how far above your peer average IGF is, to be as close as possible to 2, but absolutely not over 3, for max benefit with minimal long term risk.
There are a number of services offering easy to schedule discount blood work at a lab convienient to you, I use this one, there’s always a 20% off coupon going so use it:
IGF-1 Test
The IGF-1 Test checks growth factor levels, providing insight into growth disorders, hormone balance, pituitary health, aging, and overall metabolic function.
Ghoul
Member
Wouldn’t surprise me if you’re a hyper-responder and IGF was really high. It’s really IGF, not IU that should be used as a guide for dosing, but obviously we can’t know what IGF-1 will be until after starting. For most men over 40, 4iu will keep them in physiological IGF range, but some will go into the stratosphere and get significant sides that don’t resolve in a few weeks
You’re right though, starting at 2iu and tapering up is the way to go. I presumed that was understood and 4iu was the planned target after tapering up.
ve79
Member
I can't understand how some guys I hear taking upwards of 10iu a day? How can you tolerate it and is there any real benefit of taking that much ?Tesamorelin 2mg is roughly the same boost to growth hormone / IGF as 2iu rHGH, though the effects are a tilted more strongly toward visceral fat reduction vs rHGH having a broader range of effects, and it took about 4 months of Tesa for the impact to go from maybe / “Feels” to undeniable visible benefits.
I strongly recommend @Rooster77 and anyone else going down this road to get a baseline IGF-1 blood test before starting. It’s your only chance to know you started so you can get an objective measure of rHGH (or Tesa) having an impact.
Don’t get lazy, if you don’t do this, while not a catastrophe, you’ll probably regret not getting a “clean” IGF number before you ever touch rHGH.
A month or so after starting, if you’re wondering “is this working”, for ~$60 you can see a concrete number that will remove any doubt. IGF also serves as an indicator of other factors that may be blunting the GH effect, so you can troubleshoot the root cause of a poor response (as a bonus, this may reveal health issues you were unaware of like hypothyroidism or fatty liver). Conversely, if you’re a hyper responder you may decide to dial your dose back a little for safety. You want your IGF “Z score”, a positive number indicates how far above your peer average IGF is, to be as close as possible to 2, but absolutely not over 3, for max benefit with minimal long term risk.
There are a number of services offering easy to schedule discount blood work at a lab convienient to you, I use this one, there’s always a 20% off coupon going so use it:
IGF-1 Test
The IGF-1 Test checks growth factor levels, providing insight into growth disorders, hormone balance, pituitary health, aging, and overall metabolic function.
Ghoul
Member
It’s impossible to say without seeing their IGF, but I think it’s likely they have “GH resistance”, a condition where cells don’t respond normally to GH, especially the liver, and so side effects (and benefits) are muted. If they’re very young, they also have the capacity to absorb a lot of excess GH in tissues that still have high numbers of GH receptors left over from adolescent development stage, which atrophy away once were fully grown.
I was curious how patients with HIV muscle wasting tolerate 15-18iu rHGH daily, on two twelve week cycles a year, without developing acromegaly with big guts and freaky facial features.
It turns out because most of them eat so little, have elevated inflammation, and high liver fat, they develop GH resistance, and have very low IGF. 15iu only gets their livers to produce mid range normal IGF, and they regain some muscle mass.
Meanwhile, a healthy male, in caloric surplus, low insulin, low inflammation, would most likely be at or above the top of the IGF range with just 3-4iu. A really strong responder (genetics plays a role here) could produce IGF so efficiently per unit of GH, a small dose of exogenous GH could cause severe side effects. This is where Tesa simplifies things. Since it’s not exogenous GH, it only boosts the normal GH release, all feedback mechanisms continue to work, so if IGF gets too high, pituitary GH release gets dialed back to prevent it from becoming a problem. When you’re literally pumping GH into your system, you override that mechanism.
So the two things I took away from reading a bit ago was getting igf-1, and watching your fbg. I know since, you’ve delve off and given even more information, but those 2 I’m watching.Tesamorelin 2mg is roughly the same boost to growth hormone / IGF as 2iu rHGH, though the effects are a tilted more strongly toward visceral fat reduction vs rHGH having a broader range of effects, and it took about 4 months of Tesa for the impact to go from maybe / “Feels” to undeniable visible benefits.
I strongly recommend @Rooster77 and anyone else going down this road to get a baseline IGF-1 blood test before starting. It’s your only chance to know you started so you can get an objective measure of rHGH (or Tesa) having an impact.
Don’t get lazy, if you don’t do this, while not a catastrophe, you’ll probably regret not getting a “clean” IGF number before you ever touch rHGH.
A month or so after starting, if you’re wondering “is this working”, for ~$60 you can see a concrete number that will remove any doubt. IGF also serves as an indicator of other factors that may be blunting the GH effect, so you can troubleshoot the root cause of a poor response (as a bonus, this may reveal health issues you were unaware of like hypothyroidism or fatty liver). Conversely, if you’re a hyper responder you may decide to dial your dose back a little for safety. You want your IGF “Z score”, a positive number indicates how far above your peer average IGF is, to be as close as possible to 2, but absolutely not over 3, for max benefit with minimal long term risk.
There are a number of services offering easy to schedule discount blood work at a lab convienient to you, I use this one, there’s always a 20% off coupon going so use it:
IGF-1 Test
The IGF-1 Test checks growth factor levels, providing insight into growth disorders, hormone balance, pituitary health, aging, and overall metabolic function.
Baseline IGF-1 was 145. Plan on going back in a month to get an updated number.
I’ve yet to see anything crazy while monitoring my BG. (Low to mid 70’s). I’m using the glucoracy g-425. I will say I’m on 2.5mg M/Thurs. Reta.
Ghoul
Member
rHGH / Tesa
Testosterone
GLP
Is like the holy trinity of body recomposition anti-aging for men.
GH increases androgen receptors in muscle, making Test more effective.
Test boosts GH receptors making growth hormone more effective.
GLP makes pancreatic beta cells function better, lowering GH induced insulin resistance, making adipose tissue more sensitive to the FFA release signaling of GH and Test, and resulting fat loss, more effective.
heavydutygorilla
New Member
I'm on my first run of hgh, started it in July. Can absolutely say that 3 months in and I'm having great results with my recomp/cutting and I've been at 2iu before bed the whole time. Had some tingling of the hands and forearms that first two weeks or so but nothing outside of that. I'm constantly being told I look younger, my nails are stronger and healthy as fuck too, I'm bald, but my beard has definitely noticed improvement from a hair standpoint. Joints(tendons/ligaments) feeling a lot better too with the increased workouts and cardio I've added into the regimen these last few months. As ghoul posted above, gh, test, and reta have been a fucking game changer for my 40yr old recomp! I started at 267 in July, now down to 217. Wife was the one who wanted the hgh for the anti aging, I just decided to try it and I've been very happy I did. If you're up there in age, I highly recommend trying it out if it's something you're interested in.
niqTM
Member
For anyone in this thread who is taking GH now, have you got your IGF-1 tested?
I just watched VigorousSteve and Chase Irons talk about how their IGF numbers never go really high even on 18iu/day of GH but they are still making gains.
On the other hand, I am making ok gains on 4iu/day but my IGF is 425 last time I got tested.
Is IGF an accurate marker of expectations?
I just watched VigorousSteve and Chase Irons talk about how their IGF numbers never go really high even on 18iu/day of GH but they are still making gains.
On the other hand, I am making ok gains on 4iu/day but my IGF is 425 last time I got tested.
Is IGF an accurate marker of expectations?
ve79
Member
Wow! I never would think you can be igf resistant. When is a good time frame to get igf tested? I been on for a month but had to take 3 days off to reset and pull back to 2ius
BigDadd7
Member
Give it a week of consistent use
Ghoul
Member
High IGF provides a strong systemic “anabolic environment”. So if anabolism is your primary focus, yes.
For GH mediated effects, the things generally associated with anti-aging; skin, cognition, and especially fat loss / recomposition, IGF doesn’t tell you much. You’d want to get a GH test (the 10iu IM method) to get a rough idea of how high GH is, or more specifically, whether GH is being cleared out of your system too quickly.
High estrogen creates “GH resistance” in the liver, also known as female phenotype liver.
Women (pre menopause) produce much higher GH than men, but produce much lower IGF per unit. That’s what gives them longer lasting “youthful looks”, ie better skin. hair, nails, than men, but not significant muscle mass increase. When menopause hits, estrogen drops, but GH often stays elevated. With lower estrogen comes less GH resistance, so IGF levels shoot up, and some women experience significant soft tissue growth, with almost acromegalic features, ie bigger nose, feet, hands, coarser facial structure etc.
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This is what I heard too.
I chose to go through my TRT clinic and get a baseline IGF-1, before I started, and figured a month in I’ll get it done again.
I’m on 200mg/wk test c. Everything seemed good but energy levels after being on test and NOT working out for almost 3 years, energy started lacking again and lipids started coming back off to the point of Dr. wanting a heart scan, and to put me on a statin. Was like Hell No!
So researched, found out about GLP’s. Decided to go with Reta. In 2 mths, that totally reversed my lipid profile, but acne started being a problem all the sudden. Of course, going down the rabbit hole, finding these incredibly informative forums.. led me to dialing back my trt dose to 160mg/wk, 2 injections 80mg Mon/Fri.
But… it’s never enough, haha. And, to a good point.. led me to HGH. Started at 2iu, currently at 3iu nightly and I’m loving it. Will stay here for awhile working my way up to 4iu. Energy levels after being on Reta already had started coming back, but going into 3rd week on HGH it’s insane. Getting used to nightly wake up, but getting back to sleep.. during the day I feel boosted. The first few mornings I was lethargic, but that’s subsided and now I have energy to run and gun as long as I want. That’s my immediate notice. I can’t wait for long term effects to kick in..
niqTM
Member
So, theoretically, since my IGF is higher on 4iu, that means, theoretically, my estrogen is lower?
BigDadd7
Member
The only way to know where your estrogen is, is by testing it.
heavydutygorilla
New Member
I honestly do better with daily shallow im injections rotating between delts, quads and glutes for my trt doses and feel loads better that way than I did doing the mon/thurs split doses. You might look into that too! Glad to hear the reta helped you with the lipids and hopefully you just continue to shine as the GH gets to work for you!
ve79
Member
I thought high e2 gives you a better boost of GH?
niqTM
Member
Last time I got it tested when I got my 425 IGF, my estrogen was 49.
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