My journey from permabulk to get jacked

[Eddie.]

I was wrong saying metoprol is more selective than nebivolol, it's actually highly selective. However is also has NO effects and lowers blood pressure more than metoprol. So in your case it would be a better choice.

I've been reading through this slowly:

https://www.ranzcp.org/getmedia/a4678cf4-91f5-4746-99d4-03dc7379ae51/mood-disorders-clinical-practice-guideline-2020.pdf

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It's interesting how gear basically exacerbates mood disorders by lowering seratonin. After starting an SSRI I have realised I probably had anxiety for most of my life and this contributed to my arrhythmias.

Just something to keep in mind as a lot of people don't realise that the first thing gear does is change the brain. If androgens are causing you to feel wired the antidote is an SSRI and I'm quite sure that this would help with the palpitations/arythmia your experiencing. Combing a selective B1 receptor blocker like metoprol with an SSRI would cover the physiological symptoms of anxiety and the mental ones.

Metoprol will also lower your RHR. I use it when my heart rate starts to climb.

I’m usually fine with most androgens, it seems nandrolone is what causes issues on me. Last time with 150mg NPP I had some slight arrhythmias but nothing serious.

These days with deca they come back again with a vengeance. I’m dropping deca as of today, although it will take some time to clear out.

Even on test mast tren which is a hefty androgenic stack I didn’t have any issues, that’s why I doubt it’s purely from androgen load. I guess nandrolone does not agree with my heart.

Currently I have only nebivolol, I’ll take now a dose of 5mg pre bed and from tomorrow I’ll continue with 2,5.

What could be a starting dose of metoprolol? I see halflife is 3-7 hours, do you dose it twice a day?

Nebivolol is known for taking your rhr down.

Yeah that’s what I want but without taking down my already kinda low bp

 

[bananafeet]

I’m usually fine with most androgens, it seems nandrolone is what causes issues on me. Last time with 150mg NPP I had some slight arrhythmias but nothing serious.

These days with deca they come back again with a vengeance. I’m dropping deca as of today, although it will take some time to clear out.

Even on test mast tren which is a hefty androgenic stack I didn’t have any issues, that’s why I doubt it’s purely from androgen load. I guess nandrolone does not agree with my heart.

Currently I have only nebivolol, I’ll take now a dose of 5mg pre bed and from tomorrow I’ll continue with 2,5.

What could be a starting dose of metoprolol? I see halflife is 3-7 hours, do you dose it twice a day?



Yeah that’s what I want but without taking down my already kinda low bp

For metoprolol tartrate my specialist put me on 12.5mg twice a day (morning and night).

You can get metoprolol succinate which is prolonged release and the only variant indicated in Australia for left ventricle hypertrophy. You take the XL version once per day.

I take between 50-75mg per day. If you have an episode you can take 50mg of metoprolol tartrate once off or you can just take it preventitativly.

Nandralone reduces DAT - dopamine transport in Rats. It presents as a depressive phenotype. That's probably why people use a dopamine agonist to counter the mental side effects. I'm not smart enough to figure out how this would play in with the heart. Maybe some kind of dysregulating effect on the CNS. Trenbolone is more androgenic and usually androgenic compounds increase dopamine. So there might be something going on with your individual brain chemistry.

Hopefully someone who knows what they are talking about can comment lol

 

[Eddie.]

For metoprolol tartrate my specialist put me on 12.5mg twice a day (morning and night).

You can get metoprolol succinate which is prolonged release and the only variant indicated in Australia for left ventricle hypertrophy. You take the XL version once per day.

I take between 50-75mg per day. If you have an episode you can take 50mg of metoprolol tartrate once off or you can just take it preventitativly.

Nandralone reduces DAT - dopamine transport in Rats. It presents as a depressive phenotype. That's probably why people use a dopamine agonist to counter the mental side effects. I'm not smart enough to figure out how this would play in with the heart. Maybe some kind of dysregulating effect on the CNS. Trenbolone is more androgenic and usually androgenic compounds increase dopamine. So there might be something going on with your individual brain chemistry.

Hopefully someone who knows what they are talking about can comment lol

Thanks for chiming in! I asked grok about nebivolol vs metoprolol specifically for my case and it shows nebivolol as a better choice. Metoprolol lowers bp more than nebivolol. Just took 2,5mg and will see how it goes in 4-5 days when it fully kicks in.

Maybe I’m a special case lol. Or I must simply cut in half HGH, lower or ditch Reta and let rhr get down to previous numbers, perhaps this could alleviate heart function combined with the clearance of nandrolone.

 

[Slowww]

What is the rationale for having blood pressure well below 120? You don’t get dizzy or feel faint with such a low reading？

 

[Eddie.]

What is the rationale for having blood pressure well below 120? You don’t get dizzy or feel faint with such a low reading？

I'm not aiming particularly for a well below 120 systolic. My BP was always low without meds, like 110/55.

My goal was/is to reduce RHR without tanking my already low BP.

Ivabradine helped a little but it's still high and currently introduced a low dose nebivolol.

Last time i used nebivolol with the previous bp readings, it dropped my BP even further with diastolic to 40's and as a result this triggered heart rate to raise instead of coming down.

This time with a tad higher BP (while still on the normal range) i hope 2,5mg nebivolol will help some with rhr and calming down the heart and not have to deal with sides like the last time.

Today i just shoot 300mg test and skipped EQ for couple shots to allow e2 climb a little higher. Deca is completely off from the plan and i doubt if I'll introduce it again in the future.

Don't know why it triggered the heart palpitations but it's the only compound that makes it so far.

As the time goes by everything is pointing on tren lol. Thankfully my first time went awesome and cant wait to try it again on a low dose soon to end my off season.

 

[Eddie.]

Some updates, things are moving well in general. I’ve got bigger without adding enough fat, fasted weight is 112kg (246lb) and midday weight 115kg (253lb).

I’ve made some adjustments in food starting today. Macros on TD will be C700 F70 P300 for the training days and C350 F90 P300 for NTD. Saturday which is a training day with a free meal I’ll probably getting close to 6000kcal.

Also I’ve changed some things in gear protocol, I have removed completely nandrolone from my stack 8 days ago and since then I haven’t had any heart palpitations so far. I don’t know what’s the trigger with nandrolone (assuming is 100% because of that) but I’m happy I’m not experiencing this anymore.

I’ve put back ivabradine 5mg twice a day, I added 2,5mg nebivolol pre bed and changed the HGH from bolus pre bed to bolus first thing in the morning, still subc. I’m having first meal around 2 hours after pinning, which is not the best but it is what it is. I hope it doesn’t mess up my blood glucose so much.

My current stack is 750 test and 250 EQ. I’ll ride it like this for a week more to let nandrolone start clearing from the body and then I’ll start a low dose Tren A for the rest 6 weeks. Also, I’ll be adding either anadrol or dbol, or a little from both lol still debating it.

 

[sliderke]

Looking great man

 

[Eddie.]

Looking great man

Thanks brother!

 

[ChemBB]

Maybe it's slight posing difference but traps seem noticeably bigger here

Good to know your weight fluctuates several kg a day. I see some people commenting about 1-2lb changes in their posts, my weight daily changes 6-10lbs on a bulk lol

Very odd about the Nandrolone but at least it sounds like your issues cleared

Do you have a target weight?

 

[Eddie.]

Maybe it's slight posing difference but traps seem noticeably bigger here

TBH this most muscular is in between the classic upright and the crabshot, if I do crabshot my upper looks even better especially traps but when I lean too forward I hide the light that falls on my legs and they go too dark lol. I think they have improved really, I finally can see them in the rear double bi, bosoms months ago most of the back muscles were nonexistent.

Good to know your weight fluctuates several kg a day. I see some people commenting about 1-2lb changes in their posts, my weight daily changes 6-10lbs on a bulk lol

Oh yeah man, some days it fluctuates like 5lb from day to day fasted, those 3kg difference were 2 meals in plus the intra. I guess later in the evening with another 2 meals in and almost 2500kcal I’m weighing way higher. 6-10 pounds sounds normal to me.

Do you have a target weight?

Honestly no. When I started the off season I thought at this point I currently am that I’d look worse with more bodyfat but thankfully it didn’t happen. Now I’m just gonna push things a little more to gain some extra more even if condition goes a little worse (as to be expected).

I’d be pretty happy with a fasted weight at 250-255 but even if that doesn’t happen I won’t be mad about it, overall I’m very pleased with the outcome so far.

 

[Eddie.]

5 weeks left for my off season, weight is almost stalling despite I’m over 5000 kcal and 770-800 carbs.

My joints are so fcked up, both elbows are hurting from the top (biceps) and the right one from the tricep tendon as well. I have to to proper bicep training over a month, last 2 weeks I haven’t done any at all. Taking bpc throughout my entire off season but it ain’t working, neither deca helped while I was on it.

Last week I had even worse sleep than before, maybe tren doing its thing, perhaps in the off season with that much carbs it somewhat affects me while on cutting I didn’t notice any difference. Thinking seriously to hop on a sleep med for occasional use like 2-3 times a week just to manage getting a 7-8 hour uninterrupted sleep.

So diet wise I’m ~800C, 75F, 320P and current fasted weight 113,5kg (250lb) and midday weight 116,6kg (257lb).

 

[ChemBB]

Tricep veins are becoming disgusting, looking hench mate

weight is almost stalling despite I’m over 5000 kcal and 770-800 carbs.

That's insane. My weight stalled for 1 week recently then started moving again, maybe yours will too?

My joints are so fcked up, both elbows are hurting from the top (biceps) and the right one from the tricep tendon as well. ... Taking bpc throughout my entire off season but it ain’t working, neither deca helped while I was on it.

Are you training heavy at all?

One thing I did recently was buy Bloodflow Restriction cuffs for arms + lengths and swap out some of my sets for very light weight 20-30 rep sets.

Seems to have helped a small amount, which is better than nothing =/

 

[Eddie.]

Tricep veins are becoming disgusting, looking hench mate

Haha thanks brother! I freaking love the vascularity, i didn't expect TBH to stay that vascular after packing almost 30 pounds but it's more than welcome haha.

That's insane. My weight stalled for 1 week recently then started moving again, maybe yours will too?

Most probably it will, i don't think i can add more carbs now TBH, I'm doing 4 meals plus the intra, it's too much haha. Last meal I'm doing 40 minutes to finish it xD. I'll give it another week and if it doesn't go up I'll bump it more since I'm in the final push.

Are you training heavy at all?

One thing I did recently was buy Bloodflow Restriction cuffs for arms + lengths and swap out some of my sets for very light weight 20-30 rep sets.

Seems to have helped a small amount, which is better than nothing =/

Generally I'm lifting some heavy ass weights but mostly machines nowadays. Last couple months I'm avoiding heavy weights in biceps, I'm doing very slow with pause and contraction, 3-4 sets twice a week but it won't get any better. Now i have 10 days to train them and it still getting worse instead of improving, probably from the rest of training from back chest etc. It's a nagging pain exactly on the top of elbow where the veins we draw blood sit.

 

[Matsauce6]

Bro from the front you are just ridiculous lol, good job bro

 

[Eddie.]

Bro from the front you are just ridiculous lol, good job bro

Hah thanks brother xD! Front is my strong side, i know my back is lagging but i hope I'll somewhat fix it in the future!

 

[Matsauce6]

No doubt about it, its a fun process too ! Keep at it, its very impressive keeping that condition on a massive bulk!good job !

 

[ChemBB]

Now i have 10 days to train them and it still getting worse instead of improving, probably from the rest of training from back chest etc.

I also was having this issue with my shoulder/rotator cuff (bicep tendonitis) pain

Because I was doing:
- Chest + Tri
- Back + Bi
- Shoulders + Traps
- Legs

So, 3/4 days, there was movement of the shoulder, almost never giving it any full rest.

I swapped to below, and the pain has improved substantially:

- Chest + Tri + Shoulders (Push)
- Legs (Quad)
- Back + Bi + Traps (Pull)
- Legs (Glute/Hamstrings)

Because there is 1 full day of rest in between each time my shoulder gets any movement

Maybe something like this would help you, too?

 

[Eddie.]

I also was having this issue with my shoulder/rotator cuff (bicep tendonitis) pain

Because I was doing:
- Chest + Tri
- Back + Bi
- Shoulders + Traps
- Legs

So, 3/4 days, there was movement of the shoulder, almost never giving it any full rest.

I swapped to below, and the pain has improved substantially:

- Chest + Tri + Shoulders (Push)
- Legs (Quad)
- Back + Bi + Traps (Pull)
- Legs (Glute/Hamstrings)

Because there is 1 full day of rest in between each time my shoulder gets any movement

Maybe something like this would help you, too?

I'm doing Pull, rest, push, pull, rest, legs, push.

I'm having issues with my shoulders as well but lately they're behave well. I think I'll have to adjust some exercises to not aggravate these tendons on pressing and pulling movements.

Basically I'll have to suck it up for another 5 weeks and then go down to cruise, do a deload on the holidays and let my body rest for a while.

 

[ChemBB]

I'm doing Pull, rest, push, pull, rest, legs, push.

You wind up with push + pull consecutive days without a rest in between them

Pull, rest, push, pull, rest, legs, push, Pull, rest, push, pull, rest, legs, push (pull)

What if you moved the rest days around, something like this, to give biceps 1 full day of rest?

- push
- R
- pull
- legs
- push
- R
- pull

 

[Eddie.]

You wind up with push + pull consecutive days without a rest in between them

Pull, rest, push, pull, rest, legs, push, Pull, rest, push, pull, rest, legs, push (pull)

What if you moved the rest days around, something like this, to give biceps 1 full day of rest?

- push
- R
- pull
- legs
- push
- R
- pull

It's getting complicated brother, i want definitely to train Saturday and Sunday since i don't work and I'm rested and definitely have my leg session there. Also, having a pull right before legs is counterproductive to me because of the fatigue.

I thought every possible split, one way to get a little more rested is to reduce from 5 to 4 sessions and instead of a consecutive push/pull do a upper.

I guess I won't change split for now but after new years eve when i start my health phase I'll have to make adjustments on volume and intensity. Probably to split as well.