HGH + Retatrutide

[songsofpyramids]

I had to stop using Reta, even at .75 mg week it made me not want to eat, it sucks because I did like the bg benefits I was getting,

I got a buddy who also has eating issues with glp1, couldn’t hang at 0.25mg sema, or the starting dose of Reta and tirz which I’m blanking on at the moment. He started using 0.05mg sema for a month then moved to 0.1mg, and he has blood work showing it improving his blood sugar while running 5iu hgh. He picked sema because it was only glp1 to max that benefit. I was pretty surprised that low a dose had impact. I wonder if you went lower than 0.75mg Reta to wherever you didn’t have hunger sides if you’d still get improvements in blood sugar?

 

[Ateam2023]

I got a buddy who also has eating issues with glp1, couldn’t hang at 0.25mg sema, or the starting dose of Reta and tirz which I’m blanking on at the moment. He started using 0.05mg sema for a month then moved to 0.1mg, and he has blood work showing it improving his blood sugar while running 5iu hgh. He picked sema because it was only glp1 to max that benefit. I was pretty surprised that low a dose had impact. I wonder if you went lower than 0.75mg Reta to wherever you didn’t have hunger sides if you’d still get improvements in blood sugar?

I was thinking the same thing, i was going to think about possibly starting again, not sure when , but i was getting fbg readings @85-90, when before it was 95+, i have yet to have a fbg readings in the 100 and trying desperately to keep it that way, my other insulin numbers are creeping up also , i have lowered my hgh , i think i need a reset or something.

 

[Lifting88]

Strange how different the effect are on people

4mg reta ir tirza does nothing for my hunger maybe reta even makes me more hungery

I also dont see any change in fbg when using reta or tirza...my fbg is 5.5 mnol on reta or tirza

 

[Ateam2023]

Strange how different the effect are on people

4mg reta ir tirza does nothing for my hunger maybe reta even makes me more hungery

I also dont see any change in fbg when using reta or tirza...my fbg is 5.5 mnol on reta or tirza

I already dont like to eat really, its so easy to maintain my weight, but i literally was like "dreading to eat" while on Reta , and halfway through a relatively dmallish meal it would just make me sick to look at it, idk , i will try again at a lower dose im sure , but to low of a dose is futile?

 

[Gb9]

Delaying GH conversion to IGF as much as possible. IGF conversion is accelerated by insulin release, ie, eating (esp carbs). A fasted state will maintain max circulating GH as long as possible, which is roughly 3-4 hours post injection.

GH is responsible for enhanced fat lipolysis (signals fat cells to release free fatty acids and conditions muscles to use them for energy). Visible anti-aging effects, particularly skin quality, are a function of GH, not IGF.

If you have weight to lose, and/or you're susceptible to diabetes (get an A1C blood test before starting, as well as baseline IGF, both cheap tests), Tirz will work better than Reta. Its insulin sensitivity improving (ie, anti-diabetic) effects are superior to Reta. Reta will dump even more glucose into your blood, potentially worsening the situation if you're borderline pre-diabetic.

How does Reta dump glucose into your blood?

 

[Ghoul]

How does Reta dump glucose into your blood?

You probably know Pancreatic beta cells release insulin when blood glucose rises after a meal, to bring levels back down.

Pancreatic ALPHA cells release glucagon (ie, the third antagonist hormone in Reta), when blood glucose goes too low.

Glucagon is the hormone that triggers the liver to produce and release glucose to bring blood sugar levels back up so you don’t pass out.

GLP actually suppresses glucagon.

So reta keeps glucagon receptors continuously stimulated at a low level which is why Reta induces faster weight loss. The liver is continuously burning fat to produce sugar. When glucagon is really needed, the alpha cells release just as much as they usually would, adding to what Reta is already doing, releasing even more liver produced glucose than would normally occur.

The TLDR of all this is a higher baseline level of blood glucose, not problematically high, but rHGH is adding to this already elevated level.

Sema and Tirz are doing the opposite. Inhibiting alpha cell glucagon release. In fact it makes the response to a sugar crash worse, ie, a glucose spike from carbs, triggering a strong insulin release, which crashes blood sugar levels too low. Because of glucagon inhibition, the liver is sluggish in raising blood glucose, causing “reactive hypoglycemia” and fatigue, brain fog, blurry vision etc.

 

[Ateam2023]

I think that splitting the Reta dose "micro doses" , essentially keeps drug levels "to steady", over activating GLP-1/GIP receptors. @.75 mg/split into two doses like i was doing it made me not want to eat.
Switching to once weekly .25-.5 mg per week might restore tolerability while maintaining glucose lowering benefits? I don't know , but that will be my next approach when i decide to restart Reta.

 

[Ghoul]

I think that splitting the Reta dose "micro doses" , essentially keeps drug levels "to steady", over activating GLP-1/GIP receptors. @.75 mg/split into two doses like i was doing it made me not want to eat.
Switching to once weekly .25-.5 mg per week might restore tolerability while maintaining glucose lowering benefits? I don't know , but that will be my next approach when i decide to restart Reta.

GLP and GIP have extremely potent direct effects on beta cells so the release of insulin is significantly enhanced even with minuscule amounts.

Ultra low doses of Reta haven’t been tested specifically for this, but 1mg a week has been demonstrated to make a significant improvement in glucose control, so it’s very likely a slightly smaller dose will as well. Also, glucagon doesn’t seem to do anything at low doses. It takes a lot to kick in. For glucose control that’s desirable,

Same for Sema and Tirz being effective for glucose at sub-clinical (lower than the lowest pharma doses, .25 and 2.5, respectively).

 

[beorn777]

GLP and GIP have extremely potent direct effects on beta cells so the release of insulin is significantly enhanced even with minuscule amounts.

Ultra low doses of Reta haven’t been tested specifically for this, but 1mg a week has been demonstrated to make a significant improvement in glucose control, so it’s very likely a slightly smaller dose will as well. Also, glucagon doesn’t seem to do anything at low doses. It takes a lot to kick in. For glucose control that’s desirable,

Same for Sema and Tirz being effective for glucose at sub-clinical (lower than the lowest pharma doses, .25 and 2.5, respectively).

I'm post show, I was using 3.5 reta and I've been staying here for a bit and thought to reduce to around 1.75 a week to avoid these issues while I reintroduce GH ( 10 units a night before bed ).

From my understand under 2mg doesn't do much with glucagon activation?

 

[Ghoul]

I'm post show, I was using 3.5 reta and I've been staying here for a bit and thought to reduce to around 1.75 a week to avoid these issues while I reintroduce GH ( 10 units a night before bed ).

From my understand under 2mg doesn't do much with glucagon activation?

From what I’ve seen, above 4 is where baseline metabolic rate (BMR) just starts shows an increase over equivalent dose of Tirz, and 6 is where it’s clearly higher.

The BMR difference is considered a way to measure glucagon’s effects vs Tirz, since you’re “burning calories without activity” by glucagon making the liver producing glucose from fat, brown fat being activated (the heat generating furnace type of fat), and increased cardiac energy expenditure.

 

[beorn777]

From what I’ve seen, above 4 is where baseline metabolic rate (BMR) just starts shows an increase over equivalent dose of Tirz, and 6 is where it’s clearly higher.

The BMR difference is considered a way to measure glucagon’s effects vs Tirz, since you’re “burning calories without activity” by glucagon making the liver producing glucose from fat, brown fat being activated (the heat generating furnace type of fat), and increased cardiac energy expenditure.

Good to know I might stay around 3.5 for a bit longer then, I feel like my food focus is perfect where I'm hungry and can eat all my food (5kish clean cals) and I'm content but my energy is AMAZING on reta, I literally feel so good all the time which is the main reason I like it I'm so productive.

 

[adrenalytic]

You probably know Pancreatic beta cells release insulin when blood glucose rises after a meal, to bring levels back down.

Pancreatic ALPHA cells release glucagon (ie, the third antagonist hormone in Reta), when blood glucose goes too low.

Glucagon is the hormone that triggers the liver to produce and release glucose to bring blood sugar levels back up so you don’t pass out.

GLP actually suppresses glucagon.

So reta keeps glucagon receptors continuously stimulated at a low level which is why Reta induces faster weight loss. The liver is continuously burning fat to produce sugar. When glucagon is really needed, the alpha cells release just as much as they usually would, adding to what Reta is already doing, releasing even more liver produced glucose than would normally occur.

The TLDR of all this is a higher baseline level of blood glucose, not problematically high, but rHGH is adding to this already elevated level.

Sema and Tirz are doing the opposite. Inhibiting alpha cell glucagon release. In fact it makes the response to a sugar crash worse, ie, a glucose spike from carbs, triggering a strong insulin release, which crashes blood sugar levels too low. Because of glucagon inhibition, the liver is sluggish in raising blood glucose, causing “reactive hypoglycemia” and fatigue, brain fog, blurry vision etc.

How would this effect play out when exogenous insulin is thrown in the mix?

 

[deadbeef]

I think that splitting the Reta dose "micro doses" , essentially keeps drug levels "to steady", over activating GLP-1/GIP receptors. @.75 mg/split into two doses like i was doing it made me not want to eat.
Switching to once weekly .25-.5 mg per week might restore tolerability while maintaining glucose lowering benefits? I don't know , but that will be my next approach when i decide to restart Reta.

They tested 0.5mg in the phase 2 trial. No statistically significant difference versus placebo on blood glucose.

 

[Ghoul]

How would this effect play out when exogenous insulin is thrown in the mix?

Exogenous insulin suppresses endogenous glucagon release from alpha cells, regardless of how low blood glucose goes.

Reta’s glucagon directly agonizes receptors on the liver to trigger glucose release, just like endogenous glucagon does. But exogenous insulin overpowers glucagon and stops the liver from releasing glucose,

There’s a risk of no recovery from hypoglycemia by the liver when both are used, unless the insulin dose is low enough to allow the glucagon signal to get through.

“Hypoglycemia Rescue” kits contain syringes with massive (compared to Tirz) doses of glucagon, to override insulin suppression of liver glucose release.

 

[S1L3NC3D]

I had to stop using Reta, even at .75 mg week it made me not want to eat, it sucks because I did like the bg benefits I was getting,

How long did you take it for before you stopped?

I had the same effect at 1mg a week. But after about 1.5 months and dosing 4mg week, my appetite is back. No issues eating , just cant eat as much before my brain tells me to stop.

 

[songsofpyramids]

They tested 0.5mg in the phase 2 trial. No statistically significant difference versus placebo on blood glucose.

Wonder if that’s different with hgh running around in the system.

 

[Turkeybuilder]

From what I’ve seen, above 4 is where baseline metabolic rate (BMR) just starts shows an increase over equivalent dose of Tirz, and 6 is where it’s clearly higher.

The BMR difference is considered a way to measure glucagon’s effects vs Tirz, since you’re “burning calories without activity” by glucagon making the liver producing glucose from fat, brown fat being activated (the heat generating furnace type of fat), and increased cardiac energy expenditure.

Curious if this is also the case for split dosing (3mg every 3 days, or 2mg every 3 days). I finished my 12 week cut (-35lb) ended on a 6mg reta dose every 6 days.

I lowered to 4mg so I can start a lean bulk and somehow my appetite is completely back and very aggressive, whereas it was nonexistant at 6mg. I’d like to find a middle ground between the two, maybe split dosing

 

[Ghoul]

Curious if this is also the case for split dosing (3mg every 3 days, or 2mg every 3 days). I finished my 12 week cut (-35lb) ended on a 6mg reta dose every 6 days.

I lowered to 4mg so I can start a lean bulk and somehow my appetite is completely back and very aggressive, whereas it was nonexistant at 6mg. I’d like to find a middle ground between the two, maybe split dosing

After about 4 weeks of the same dose, whether it’s once or twice a week, blood plasma concentration is very stable, around 80% constant with only a 20% variation from peak to trough using a larger single weekly dose, and a smaller variation with split dosing. But 20% is almost insignificant anyway.

This applies to all 3 of the weekly GLP drugs, Tirz, Sema, and Reta.

I looked at the phase 2 trial data, and .5mg of Reta per week had a pretty significant effect on glucose lowering. If that’s all you can handle, it’s still with the effort, but higher is better.

 

[Turkeybuilder]

After about 4 weeks of the same dose, whether it’s once or twice a week, blood plasma concentration is very stable, around 80% constant with only a 20% variation from peak to trough using a larger single weekly dose, and a smaller variation with split dosing. But 20% is almost insignificant anyway.

This applies to all 3 of the weekly GLP drugs, Tirz, Sema, and Reta.

I looked at the phase 2 trial data, and .5mg of Reta per week had a pretty significant effect on glucose lowering. If that’s all you can handle, it’s still with the effort, but higher is better.

My goal with reta is to take advantage of it’s ability to shuttle fat to be used as energy. I plan on running it during my lean bulk over 16 weeks and then into my cut following that. I don’t want to pack on more than 15lb during my 16 week lean bulk so i’m gonna play it low and slow and hope with the help of reta, good training / nutrition, and 500mg/test most of that weight is muscle

 

[Ateam2023]

I lost some strength and size too but you're never really starting over. Muscle memory is a fantastic thing. I got it all back and then some in about 3 months.

Muscle memory is my saving grace, after being on righteous Trt for around 6 months and two torn rotator cuffs, its really been a humbling experience to "work around" these injuries and lower doses of everything, no sense in using more than a trt dose if I can't train like i want too. And my first shoulder surgery being "delayed" because of an irregular EKG has set everything back, i go see the cardiologist tomorrow to see whats going on. HUMBLING is all i can say