Boldenone (EQ) Misconceptions and Comparison with Metenolone (Primo) [Author: Type-IIx]

[dinfar1337]

the slower release from depot for EQ before reaching steady-state will almost certainly result in reduced Aromatase activity.

this is what i assumed aswell.

but the concept of boldeone having 50% of aromatese to testosterone is simply wrong i believe mpmd did a wonderful deep dive into some hidden research on reddit or whatever for it. and the book which stated it mixed it up with another unknown steroid which shares a common name but isnt commonly used

im pretty sure he is right considering it can inhibit aromatese comletely like this, taking over the receptor completely and almost giving 0

just watch first 7-10 minutes if or longer if u want the video is pretty well structured


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heSPrS5mAGk


@Photon

the research we have on boldeone that most guys know is fake info taken by a book with a study for fetus and child growth and boldeone isnt mentioned in that study lmao.

and the book changed the study up to that one since its super hard to find once they realised they messed up.

although i agree with alot of type2's research. the number 58% is pulled out of someones ass in a book.

 

[exx]

End of blast.
Close to week 20?
1g test d
1g eq
80mg trestolone deconate

TNE/mtren pwo (g-free)
40mg halo
Rotated between adrol n var

No AI

Started running e2 cyp as I went off trestolone.

so it's safe to say that you had "tanked e2" (at least on paper) for roughly 18 weeks? But you obviously felt fine and continued to make progress?

 

[Type-IIx]

this is what i assumed aswell.

but the concept of boldeone having 50% of aromatese to testosterone is simply wrong i believe mpmd did a wonderful deep dive into some hidden research on reddit or whatever for it. and the book which stated it mixed it up with another unknown steroid which shares a common name but isnt commonly used

im pretty sure he is right considering it can inhibit aromatese comletely like this, taking over the receptor completely and almost giving 0

just watch first 7-10 minutes if or longer if u want the video is pretty well structured


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heSPrS5mAGk


@Photon

the research we have on boldeone that most guys know is fake info taken by a book with a study for fetus and child growth and boldeone isnt mentioned in that study lmao.

and the book changed the study up to that one since its super hard to find once they realised they messed up.

although i agree with alot of type2's research. the number 58% is pulled out of someones ass in a book.

Derek's wrong, Llewellyn's right. Is that surprising?

Annotations from Llewellyn, William. William Llewellyn’s Anabolics. Eleventh edition, Molecular Nutrition, LLC, 2017. WorldCat.​

“Boldenone is considered a mildly estrogenic steroid. Aromatization studies suggest that its rate of conversion to estrad iol is roughly half that of testosterone.1” (Llewellyn, 2017, p. 297)

“1 Biosynthesis of Estrogens, Gual C, Morato T, Hayano M, Gut M, and Dorfman R. Endocrinology 71 (1962):920-25.” (Llewellyn, 2017, p. 298)

Annotations from Gual, Carlos, et al. “Biosynthesis of Estrogens.” Endocrinology, vol. 71, no. 6, Dec. 1962, pp. 920–25. DOI.org (Crossref), https://doi.org/10.1210/endo-71-6-920.​

“Ryan (9, 11) has reported the conversion of androgens to estrogens in a high yield by a system consisting of human placental microsomes, the reduced form of triphosphopyridine nucleotide or a TPNH generating system and oxygen. Many steroids have been investigated with the use of this tissue preparation as possible precursors of the natural estrogens. In the present study, many other interesting structures have been examined for conversion to phenolic substances. This manuscript is a compilation of these data, together with a discussion of the findings.” (Gual et al., 1962, p. 920)

“Incubation of 17{5-hydroxy-4-androsten-3-one-4-Cxi {testosterone) and subsequent processing for the estrogens were carried out essentially as described above for 19-nortestosterone. Both estrone and estradiol were noted, totaling an approximate yield of 60%.” (Gual et al., 1962, p. 922)

(Gual et al., 1962, p. 923)

“4-androstene-3,17-dione” (Gual et al., 1962, p. 923) androstenedione; Adione; ASD shares the same aromatization rate as testosterone, same moiety analogous to 1,4-androstadien-3,17-dione (boldione) vis-a-vis boldenone


“l,4-Androstadiene-3,17-dione” (Gual et al., 1962, p. 923) Boldione, but despite lacking 17-beta-hydroxyl, this is boldenone's (EQ) aromatization rate also; same moiety, analogous to 4-androstene-3,17-dione (Adione; androstenedione; ASD) vis-a-vis testosterone

This permits us to say that boldenone (EQ) aromatizes at ~ 58% the rate of T (0.35 / 0.60) to estrone and estradiol

 

[exx]

Derek's wrong, Llewellyn's right. Is that surprising?

Annotations from Llewellyn, William. William Llewellyn’s Anabolics. Eleventh edition, Molecular Nutrition, LLC, 2017. WorldCat.​

“Boldenone is considered a mildly estrogenic steroid. Aromatization studies suggest that its rate of conversion to estrad iol is roughly half that of testosterone.1” (Llewellyn, 2017, p. 297)

“1 Biosynthesis of Estrogens, Gual C, Morato T, Hayano M, Gut M, and Dorfman R. Endocrinology 71 (1962):920-25.” (Llewellyn, 2017, p. 298)

​

Annotations from Gual, Carlos, et al. “Biosynthesis of Estrogens.” Endocrinology, vol. 71, no. 6, Dec. 1962, pp. 920–25. DOI.org (Crossref), https://doi.org/10.1210/endo-71-6-920.​

“Ryan (9, 11) has reported the conversion of androgens to estrogens in a high yield by a system consisting of human placental microsomes, the reduced form of triphosphopyridine nucleotide or a TPNH generating system and oxygen. Many steroids have been investigated with the use of this tissue preparation as possible precursors of the natural estrogens. In the present study, many other interesting structures have been examined for conversion to phenolic substances. This manuscript is a compilation of these data, together with a discussion of the findings.” (Gual et al., 1962, p. 920)

“Incubation of 17{5-hydroxy-4-androsten-3-one-4-Cxi {testosterone) and subsequent processing for the estrogens were carried out essentially as described above for 19-nortestosterone. Both estrone and estradiol were noted, totaling an approximate yield of 60%.” (Gual et al., 1962, p. 922)

View attachment 356230(Gual et al., 1962, p. 923)

“4-androstene-3,17-dione” (Gual et al., 1962, p. 923) androstenedione; Adione; ASD shares the same aromatization rate as testosterone, same moiety analogous to 1,4-androstadien-3,17-dione (boldione) vis-a-vis boldenone


“l,4-Androstadiene-3,17-dione” (Gual et al., 1962, p. 923) Boldione, but despite lacking 17-beta-hydroxyl, this is boldenone's (EQ) aromatization rate also; same moiety, analogous to 4-androstene-3,17-dione (Adione; androstenedione; ASD) vis-a-vis testosterone

This permits us to say that boldenone (EQ) aromatizes at ~ 58% the rate of T (0.35 / 0.60) to estrone and estradiol

this proves exactly why there are guys out there who can run EQ higher than test and have zero issues

 

[Type-IIx]

I just pulled the transcript from Derek, he doesn't even say anything concrete, just some handwaving about how in vitro studies don't translate to bodybuilders? OK, I mean, never heard that before (kidding, of course)… however, this is how you measure aromatase activity in a controlled manner. Besides this, you just get a bunch of idiots comparing apples to orangutans online. Joke.

Not being able to understand something so as to not be able to meaningfully critique it in any concrete way, but making a video about it anyway, doesn't mean facts don't exist and that you're not wrong. In fact, they do and he is.

 

[Type-IIx]

Anyway, there's plenty of individual variability of course. That's all addressed by Primobolan / Equipoise Crashed my E2 – Help!

I think he should have had the humility to discontinue this video project of his when he couldn't identify boldione or its relevance right in the paper. I'd be so embarrassed to introduce my argument as, "well, I'm no expert I couldn't actually find the reference."

Of course, some EQ metabolites might inhibit aromatase… so does EQ, so does testosterone, so does every androgen. Androgens are antiestrogenic, some happen to create aromatic products because they aromatize.

It's a false dilemma to say that because we can't predict x→y from a dose given to a random person that we can't say boldenone aromatizes at 58% the rate of testosterone based on Gual.

He doesn't understand inhibition, he thinks competing for an enzyme is different from inhibition.. that's what it is.

He simply possesses too little basic understanding to address this type of science.

 

[Type-IIx]

I just had to come back to say though, I don't want to come across as hating Derek. He definitely makes quality entertaining content and he's likable, seems like a very good bro. I just wouldn't bother putting my foot in my mouth with these more scientific posts if I was in his shoes

 

[Photon]

so it's safe to say that you had "tanked e2" (at least on paper) for roughly 18 weeks? But you obviously felt fine and continued to make progress?

I was running Trest D which converts to methylated E2 which doesn't show up on bloodwork.

I'll probably run 1.5g EQ next cycle just to see what my E1/E2 is. I know E2 will drop for sure on EQ but I'm just surprised that my E1 went down as well. I also developed anemia from all that EQ use so it'll be interesting to see if I get that again.

 

[dinfar1337]

Derek's wrong, Llewellyn's right. Is that surprising?

Annotations from Llewellyn, William. William Llewellyn’s Anabolics. Eleventh edition, Molecular Nutrition, LLC, 2017. WorldCat.​

“Boldenone is considered a mildly estrogenic steroid. Aromatization studies suggest that its rate of conversion to estrad iol is roughly half that of testosterone.1” (Llewellyn, 2017, p. 297)

“1 Biosynthesis of Estrogens, Gual C, Morato T, Hayano M, Gut M, and Dorfman R. Endocrinology 71 (1962):920-25.” (Llewellyn, 2017, p. 298)

​

Annotations from Gual, Carlos, et al. “Biosynthesis of Estrogens.” Endocrinology, vol. 71, no. 6, Dec. 1962, pp. 920–25. DOI.org (Crossref), https://doi.org/10.1210/endo-71-6-920.​

“Ryan (9, 11) has reported the conversion of androgens to estrogens in a high yield by a system consisting of human placental microsomes, the reduced form of triphosphopyridine nucleotide or a TPNH generating system and oxygen. Many steroids have been investigated with the use of this tissue preparation as possible precursors of the natural estrogens. In the present study, many other interesting structures have been examined for conversion to phenolic substances. This manuscript is a compilation of these data, together with a discussion of the findings.” (Gual et al., 1962, p. 920)

“Incubation of 17{5-hydroxy-4-androsten-3-one-4-Cxi {testosterone) and subsequent processing for the estrogens were carried out essentially as described above for 19-nortestosterone. Both estrone and estradiol were noted, totaling an approximate yield of 60%.” (Gual et al., 1962, p. 922)

View attachment 356230(Gual et al., 1962, p. 923)

“4-androstene-3,17-dione” (Gual et al., 1962, p. 923) androstenedione; Adione; ASD shares the same aromatization rate as testosterone, same moiety analogous to 1,4-androstadien-3,17-dione (boldione) vis-a-vis boldenone


“l,4-Androstadiene-3,17-dione” (Gual et al., 1962, p. 923) Boldione, but despite lacking 17-beta-hydroxyl, this is boldenone's (EQ) aromatization rate also; same moiety, analogous to 4-androstene-3,17-dione (Adione; androstenedione; ASD) vis-a-vis testosterone

This permits us to say that boldenone (EQ) aromatizes at ~ 58% the rate of T (0.35 / 0.60) to estrone and estradiol

hello i totally agree derek is an idiot for saying boldeone aromatizes at 0

but the catch on boldione(1,4-androstadiene-3,17-dione) in vitro and not BOLDEONE(1,4-androstadien-17β-ol-3-one) is right.

although we could compare androstenedione to testosterone and get a reasonable comparison.

i just wanted to higlight these 2 points from my original post, stating what i got from derek he got right, the 50% figure likely isnt accurate. it was in 1962 and he did his best he could but its a hypothesis which isnt right and it seems way more individual than a set number at 50%.

and eq can inhibit estrogen production to almost 0. but its different from person to person.

all other shit he said is bs.

just wanted to highlight the little moment of shine he stole from that redditor from around 6-10 minutes in the video

 

[dinfar1337]

I just had to come back to say though, I don't want to come across as hating Derek. He definitely makes quality entertaining content and he's likable, seems like a very good bro. I just wouldn't bother putting my foot in my mouth with these more scientific posts if I was in his shoes

his natty or not videoes is the shit.

im not consuming much science stuff on youtube. but that derek guy does some funny tren horror reddit stories.

i also mean't the 50% is pulled out of lewyns a$$.

obviously you're comparing eq without hydroxyl group to testosterone and doing it right.

which is right biochemically, and i see that is what is right on the paper but i just dont believe its right in real life, and the methods is just not 100% fool proof, which is the only thing derek said right in that video partially right he stole from the redditor.

 

[exx]

I was running Trest D which converts to methylated E2 which doesn't show up on bloodwork.

I'll probably run 1.5g EQ next cycle just to see what my E1/E2 is. I know E2 will drop for sure on EQ but I'm just surprised that my E1 went down as well. I also developed anemia from all that EQ use so it'll be interesting to see if I get that again.

running ment while blasting EQ is genius. I never even thought of that lmao

 

[xrayphoton13]

running ment while blasting EQ is genius. I never even thought of that lmao

You can do the same with dbol. I'm my early days and trying to reinvent the wheel I stupidly once ran 0 test, 700mg NPP, 500mg primo with 25mg dbol per day and had high e2 symptoms.

 

[adversi]

You can do the same with dbol. I'm my early days and trying to reinvent the wheel I stupidly once ran 0 test, 700mg NPP, 500mg primo with 25mg dbol per day and had high e2 symptoms.

Ive seen people describe dbol/primo and dbol/deca/primo cycles as reinventing the wheel but aren't these cycles the original?

Not saying they're optimal but they work and predate people running test with primo/mast/eq. The cycle design makes sense, dbol for e2, primo to manage e2, and a 19nor on top.

 

[exx]

You can do the same with dbol. I'm my early days and trying to reinvent the wheel I stupidly once ran 0 test, 700mg NPP, 500mg primo with 25mg dbol per day and had high e2 symptoms.

interesting. How much dbol per day, and for how many weeks?

 

[anon55]

EQ is definitely an AI or a SERM something like that, at 400mg test with nothing else I had gyno and bloated like the Michelin man
Currently at 1750mg test and 500mg EQ and absolutely no sides.

 

[xrayphoton13]

Ive seen people describe dbol/primo and dbol/deca/primo cycles as reinventing the wheel but aren't these cycles the original?

Not saying they're optimal but they work and predate people running test with primo/mast/eq. The cycle design makes sense, dbol for e2, primo to manage e2, and a 19nor on top.

Oh no doubt but when you talk about those old school cycles these days every response is "why are you trying to reinvent the wheel"

 

[xrayphoton13]

interesting. How much dbol per day, and for how many weeks?

25mg per day. I may have done 25mg per day plus 25mg preworkout, just can't remember now. It's been awhile. I just know it was too much without an AI even with primo in the mix and no test.

I only lasted 4 weeks so not long. I didn't know what I know now about how to control BP and it was creeping up into the low 140s so I quit.

 

[Eddie.]

EQ is definitely an AI or a SERM something like that, at 400mg test with nothing else I had gyno and bloated like the Michelin man
Currently at 1750mg test and 500mg EQ and absolutely no sides.

Nice!! How you respond to that high test? I've heard some guys have no issues going 2gr+ and others that handle like 1200-1300mg. From there and upwards it's like test flu, higher temps, a lot of CNS stimulation, bad sleep etc.

As far as EQ id guess that could be me with that ratio, 2/1 test/EQ and i have crashed estradiol.

 

[anon55]

Nice!! How you respond to that high test? I've heard some guys have no issues going 2gr+ and others that handle like 1200-1300mg. From there and upwards it's like test flu, higher temps, a lot of CNS stimulation, bad sleep etc.

As far as EQ id guess that could be me with that ratio, 2/1 test/EQ and i have crashed estradiol.

Honestly it's weird. I guess now I have estradiol under control I don't have the sides I used to have.
I sleep great (no snoring), no water retention, energy level pretty high.
It's just the beginning but the cycle start great!

 

[Type-IIx]

Boldenone (EQ) and IGF-1

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View: https://youtube.com/shorts/yPEFU0J38ms?si=i1CU1X-xVsUDgb96


From this past weekend's Sunday Q&A