Greetings folks :)

[latrinelove]

Hello folks,

I am rather new to the bodybulding world, joined the gym for the first time 7 months ago at the age of 37 and made a 360 degrees lifestyle change.

I had been struggling with severe depression, low focus, libido and high level of stress for a good part of the last 11 years. I was prescribed all kind of antidepressants which only made the situation worse.

In the end the solution was to drop all that garbage meds, sign up to the gym and start eating healthy for a change. I did naturally lose 20kg during the first 5 months of hitting the gym, but decided to hop on taking a bit of gear a couple of months ago to aid and accellerate the fat loss. I am currently around 22% body fat, in a cut, and never felt stronger before.

I do not plan on getting crazy big, quite the opposite in fact. My goal is to get lean and muscular.

So yeah, happy to be part of the community. Thanks for accepting me.

 

[sionnach]

Congrats on the 20kg. What was your starting weight?

22%

Did you get a dexa scan? What were your blood labs before starting and what are they now?

 

[latrinelove]

Congrats on the 20kg. What was your starting weight?

Did you get a dexa scan? What were your blood labs before starting and what are they now?

No I did not get a Dexa scan yet, this is purely by measuring and observation by a handful of people.

I plan on taking a dexa scan at some point early next year.

Blood results before the cycle were mostly good, besides Total T being below 180, and very low T4 as well.

Last month blood work

FSH 0.300
LH 0.300
Oestradiol 53.000
Free-Testosterone (Calculated) 1.850
SHBG 13.100
Prolactin 127.000
Testosterone 56.40
TSH 1.790 0.27
Free T4 14.800

Will get my blood work done this Saturday. I expect LDL and HDH to have taken a bit of a hit due to increasing the dosage of Anavar from 20mg to 50mg.

 

[sionnach]

I plan on taking a dexa scan at some point early next year.

Get one now and later. Youll regret not having an earlier baseline to compare. They're not that expensive anymore.

labs

By my usual units those numbers are wacky AF. I guess I'll assume they're in commie units.

 

[Banana Joe]

... I did naturally lose 20kg during the first 5 months of hitting the gym

Great job! Especially given the circumstances of being faced with mental health issues. Just stay on this path.

but decided to hop on taking a bit of gear a couple of months ago to aid and accellerate the fat loss. I am currently around 22% body fat, in a cut, and never felt stronger before.

How much is "a bit"? If it's like 15-200mg you got my blessing, given what else you mentioned to have struggled with.
If it is more than that, I would probably have a few tough questions to ask.

Get one now and later. Youll regret not having an earlier baseline to compare. They're not that expensive anymore.

Since you keep repeating that message since a parrot, I now actually looked into it, and even where I live it is apparently <100€.
Thank you for being so annoying about it.

 

[sionnach]

Since you keep repeating that message since a parrot, I now actually looked into it, and even where I live it is apparently <100€.
Thank you for being so annoying about it.

Sorry, it's less than half that where I am. But, I'd probably spend that. I find the data incredibly interesting and useful for goal setting. Still, way better than the $1200 it was a decade ago, or $4-500 it was just a couple of years ago.

 

[Banana Joe]

Sorry, it's less than half that where I am. But, I'd probably spend that. I find the data incredibly interesting and useful for goal setting. Still, way better than the $1200 it was a decade ago, or $4-500 it was just a couple of years ago.

Yeah, at your price is definitely is a nobrainer, but even at my local prices it would make sense to get it done at least once.
I assumed they are the still cost at least in the latter.

Will have to purchase more drugs first, though. With all this stuff going on worldwide, I need to stack up NOW. Can't run around like an unhealthy twig, if the apocalypse actually hits us.

 

[latrinelove]

How much is "a bit"? If it's like 15-200mg you got my blessing, given what else you mentioned to have struggled with.
If it is more than that, I would probably have a few tough questions to ask.

Here is my current cycle. I did start everything at the lowest and gradually increased throught the course of the past 10 weeks.

Testosterone Cypionate 200mg per week
Anavar 50mg daily
Aromasin 12.5mg twice a week
HGC 500 IU twice a week
HGH 3 IU once a day
HGH Frag 176-191 400mcg twice a day
Retatrutide 2mg once a week
Salbutamol 20mg once a day

I will be lowering Aromasin as soon as my next blood test results are out, and will be dropping HGH Frag. I am not sure it is making any difference. That was a bad call from my side.

I do not plan to increase Test nor Anavar any further, but I'd like to add some Primobolan if it makes sense in my next blood results.

 

[latrinelove]

Get one now and later. Youll regret not having an earlier baseline to compare. They're not that expensive anymore.

By my usual units those numbers are wacky AF. I guess I'll assume they're in commie units.

I live in the UK, so yes, commie unites I suppose. A Dexa scan in this country is crazy expensive, while I can have it done back home in Italy for 100 euros.

Anyways I was a fat pig until 8 months ago. So...

 

[Banana Joe]

Testosterone Cypionate 200mg per week
Anavar 50mg daily
Aromasin 12.5mg twice a week
HGC 500 IU twice a week
HGH 3 IU once a day
HGH Frag 176-191 400mcg twice a day
Retatrutide 2mg once a week
Salbutamol 20mg once a day

I will be lowering Aromasin as soon as my next blood test results are out, and will be dropping HGH Frag. I am not sure it is making any difference. That was a bad call from my side.

I do not plan to increase Test nor Anavar any further, but I'd like to add some Primobolan if it makes sense in my next blood results.

Thanks.

No point in frag, yes. 3iu of HGH is appropriate I'd say, given your age.
Got no issue with Exemestan, HCG or Reta.

Salbutamol doesn't make sense to me, you want to build muscle but use a fat (=calorie) burning drug? Could you *maybe* argue that might help with HIIT cardio training, and therefore improve overall performance and fat loss? I guess you could, but I still don't see the point at your stage. You were unfit since forever, or at least many, many years. Build up endurance without drugs. Good cardio by itself will build a lot of muscle without drugs in the long term, it just takes a while.

To make it short about the anabolics:
Up the Test and ditch the Var.

 

[latrinelove]

Thanks.

No point in frag, yes. 3iu of HGH is appropriate I'd say, given your age.
Got no issue with Exemestan, HCG or Reta.

Salbutamol doesn't make sense to me, you want to build muscle but use a fat (=calorie) burning drug? Could you *maybe* argue that might help with HIIT cardio training, and therefore improve overall performance and fat loss? I guess you could, but I still don't see the point at your stage. You were unfit since forever, or at least many, many years. Build up endurance without drugs. Good cardio by itself will build a lot of muscle without drugs in the long term, it just takes a while.

To make it short about the anabolics:
Up the Test and ditch the Var.

The reason why I added 20mg of Salbutamol to the stack is mainly to help burn stubborn belly and leg fat, and to give me a little kick during my workout. I take 300mg of Tramadol and 90mg of Douloxetine for a nerve damage, and noticed that adding Salbutamol really helps with overall stamina.

Question, should I drop the AI entirely if I add 1:1 Primobolan?

Thanks Bud

 

[Banana Joe]

The reason why I added 20mg of Salbutamol to the stack is mainly to help burn stubborn belly and leg fat

Let me stop you right here - a calorie deficit is what burns fat. Or building muscle while eating maintenance or in a surplus - but I am unsure if your body already possesses this ability.
If you think that you have unusual fat pockets for a man, you might want to check your E2, but you should do that anyway (see below). From what I am able to gather anecdotally, that can often help in such cases.

and to give me a little kick during my workout.

Like I said, that would be the only "legit" reason I can see, but still - are you really sure that you need it?
What kind of special training do you do, that you need a little kick? Do you think you already tapped that deep into your athletic capability, that you need pharmacological help because you can't generate the drive through other means?

I take 300mg of Tramadol and 90mg of Douloxetine for a nerve damage, and noticed that adding Salbutamol really helps with overall stamina.

I really can't comment on nerv damage related stuff. I would not take 300mg of Tramadol daily indefinitely, but if this is what you need, to not be in pain, I will not argue against it.

Question, should I drop the AI entirely if I add 1:1 Primobolan?
Thanks Bud

Only your blood work will be able to tell you that. Some really lean guys have low E2 on double your Test dose. Some others will have high E2 on half your dose. If your E2 value is pg/mL then you are good, though some might argue a bit too high, especially if you describe a more female kind of fat distribution.
General concenus nowadays seems to be to settle in the upper third of the reference range (10-40 pg/mL), but someone might correct on me on that.

Also, why add Primo, which is around a full magnitude more expensive (if normalised for effective anabolism)? You can just up the Test dose for <$1 a week.
I would just take 350mg of Test, get E2 bloodwork, dose AI as needed, get E2 once again, and then just be patient. If you will not grow on that dose, you are either doing training and or nutrition wrong, or simply don't have the genetics to justify taking more than a generous TRT dose anyway.

 

[latrinelove]

Like I said, that would be the only "legit" reason I can see, but still - are you really sure that you need it?
What kind of special training do you do, that you need a little kick? Do you think you already tapped that deep into your athletic capability, that you need pharmacological help because you can't generate the drive through other means?

Interesting take, especially from one who is suggesting me to up my test dosage to 350mg. If we are going by this analogy then I shouldn't do steroids to begin with. And no, you don't reach the peak of your athletic performance in 8 months. Not even close.

I really can't comment on nerv damage related stuff. I would not take 300mg of Tramadol daily indefinitely, but if this is what you need, to not be in pain, I will not argue against it.

Unfortunately I am gonna take this health issue to the tumb. I have had it for 11 years, and whilst I have gotten much better, I will never be able to stop the tram. I used to take 1g a day up until a couple of years ago. With 300mg I have reached a good balance between pain tollerance and mental wellbeing.

As far as I am aware of Primobolan is complementary to test, helps maintain a dry look and will slowly help put some lean mass on. It will also counter the estrogenic effects of Testosterone by loweing E2.

Increasing Testosterone to 350mg a week will bring quite a bit of water retention, I will surely need to up my AI, and will ticken my blood. No thank you.

 

[Banana Joe]

Interesting take, especially from one who is suggesting me to up my test dosage to 350mg. If we are going by this analogy then I shouldn't do steroids to begin with. And no, you don't reach the peak of your athletic performance in 8 months. Not even close.
...
As far as I am aware of Primobolan is complementary to test, helps maintain a dry look and will slowly help put some lean mass on. It will also counter the estrogenic effects of Testosterone by loweing E2.

Increasing Testosterone to 350mg a week will bring quite a bit of water retention, I will surely need to up my AI, and will ticken my blood. No thank you.

This is one those answers, where I, due to new rules being imposed on every member since yesterday, and given the entirety of the information presented in this thread, will simply tell you to do what ever you feel like doing.

Best of luck in your future endevours!

 

[Elektrobot]

joined the gym for the first time 7 months ago

but decided to hop on taking a bit of gear a couple of months ago

due to increasing the dosage of Anavar from 20mg to 50mg.

stubborn belly and leg fat

add 1:1 Primobolan?

 

[latrinelove]

View attachment 353748

Do not bother considering any of the other facts I mentioned.

 

[BigDadd7]

No I did not get a Dexa scan yet, this is purely by measuring and observation by a handful of people.

I plan on taking a dexa scan at some point early next year.

Blood results before the cycle were mostly good, besides Total T being below 180, and very low T4 as well.

Last month blood work

FSH 0.300
LH 0.300
Oestradiol 53.000
Free-Testosterone (Calculated) 1.850
SHBG 13.100
Prolactin 127.000
Testosterone 56.40
TSH 1.790 0.27
Free T4 14.800

Will get my blood work done this Saturday. I expect LDL and HDH to have taken a bit of a hit due to increasing the dosage of Anavar from 20mg to 50mg.

You have zero need for anavar at 22%.

 

[BigDadd7]

Interesting take, especially from one who is suggesting me to up my test dosage to 350mg. If we are going by this analogy then I shouldn't do steroids to begin with. And no, you don't reach the peak of your athletic performance in 8 months. Not even close.


Unfortunately I am gonna take this health issue to the tumb. I have had it for 11 years, and whilst I have gotten much better, I will never be able to stop the tram. I used to take 1g a day up until a couple of years ago. With 300mg I have reached a good balance between pain tollerance and mental wellbeing.

As far as I am aware of Primobolan is complementary to test, helps maintain a dry look and will slowly help put some lean mass on. It will also counter the estrogenic effects of Testosterone by loweing E2.

Increasing Testosterone to 350mg a week will bring quite a bit of water retention, I will surely need to up my AI, and will ticken my blood. No thank you.

There's always some out of shape clown like you that comes in to argue why their crap plan is actually good. It's not good. It's a crap plan. People use anavar and primo to push past genetic limits. You're not within ten miles of those limits. Either do this right and have great long term success, or continue this crap plan and end up failing when you realize you can't drug your way into fitness.

You are but one of thousands of fat guys to stroll through these doors over the years and think you know better than people that have been living this lifestyle for decades. And like all those other fatties, you'll argue until youre blue in the face why your plan is correct. Six months from now? You'll still look like poop and will give up. It happens the same way every time. I'd say good luck, but luck has nothing to do with it.

That last little bit about thickening your blood... lmao. I'm pretty sure your cholesterol is doing that all on its own.