Why do some people run growth hormone releasing peptides instead of HGH?

[amazonas]

I've been wondering for a while why there are so many people using these growth hormone releasing peptides such as CJC+Ipamorelin, GHRP, Tesamorelin etc... over just injecting straight up HGH?

Back in the day when HGH was expensive as hell, people would resort to the peptides, but nowadays with chinese generic hgh being so cheap and available, i don't think it's the case anymore. But yet these peptides are still very popular.

Heck people even called them "poor mans HGH" back in the old days.

I asked ChatGPT about the benefits of growth hormone releasing peptides over HGH:

• More natural secretion pattern:
  GH is normally secreted in pulses, mostly at night. Peptides stimulate this natural pulsatile release. Injecting HGH often creates a flat, supraphysiological spike that doesn’t mimic normal physiology.
• Lower risk of suppression:
  Long-term exogenous HGH can suppress your body’s own GH production and may reduce pituitary function. Peptides usually maintain pituitary responsiveness, so your system is less likely to "shut down."
• Potentially safer metabolic profile:
  Exogenous HGH, especially in higher doses, can increase risks like insulin resistance, carpal tunnel, edema, and potentially accelerate growth of latent cancers. Peptides (at physiological doses) are thought to carry less of this risk because they don’t chronically oversaturate GH/IGF-1 pathways.

Bodybuilding is obviously not a healthy sport, and the more the better, so a lot exogenous HGH makes sense, but let's say you are on TRT and focus on health and longevity. Would these growth hormone releasing peptides be a better option?

 

[biggerben69]

I like the question. I think the answer has a lot to do with the individual and their beliefs.

Importing generic gh by a regular citizen is against US law. Some guys take issue with breaking the law. Some seem predisposed to break every law that seemingly comes their way?

Some guys have issues with The Sugar(what my grandmother called diabetes). A lot of guys are borderline and gh can negatively effect glucose levels.

That's just off the top of my head. Others may have different reasons?

 

[Vicki]

For me its was mainly because hgh is illegal. I changed my mind however

 

[Ghoul]

For the most part, possession and use of rHGH is not a crime in the US, at least no more than using unprescribed blood pressure meds would be. Possession with intent to distribute, and acts further up the chain from there is. (there are a couple of state level exceptions).

I can only speak regarding Tesamorelin, a well studied, FDA approved drug (Egrifta) with a long track record of safety.

For one. even without routine testing, it's generally safe for long term use. Acromegaly is not a risk, because you'll never exceed physiological levels of GH by enough to cause it. Similarly, new onset diabetes risk is very low. All natural pituitary feedback mechanisms are left intact. It can and has been used daily for decades with no "safety signals" of health harm. That's very appealing,

Tesa essentially mimics the "ideal conditions" that would trigger your body to max out endogenous growth hormone production. Perfect sleep, perfect nutrition, perfect health, and no stress,

ChatGPT didn't elaborate on why pulsatile release is beneficial. TLDR constant release like rHGH is not natural, and GH receptors can downregulate over time ("GH resistance").

That's why Tesa is very effective at reducing visceral fat at doses inducing much lower levels of GH/IGF than required to achieve similar fat lipolysis with rHGH. The pulses don't cause a loss of receptor responsiveness that occurs with constant exposure to GH. Visceral fat reduction is Tesa's main reason for existence, but it provides the other familiar rHGH benefits on skin, hair, nails etc at a level roughly similar to 2iu of rHGH.

So this makes for a good anti-aging, general health use case vs inherently riskier rHGH. Tesa is a modest GH increasing minivan with an automatic transmission, while rHGH is a manual sports car with no safety features by comparison, requiring monitoring of glucose, IGF, kidney function, lipids, getting timing right, managing sides etc.

 

[biggerben69]

For the most part, possession and use of rHGH is not a crime in the US, at least no more than using unprescribed blood pressure meds would be. Possession with intent to distribute, and acts further up the chain from there is. (there are a couple of state level exceptions).

I can only speak regarding Tesamorelin, a well studied, FDA approved drug (Egrifta) with a long track record of safety.

For one. even without routine testing, it's generally safe for long term use. Acromegaly is not a risk, because you'll never exceed physiological levels of GH by enough to cause it. Similarly, new onset diabetes risk is very low. All natural pituitary feedback mechanisms are left intact. It can and has been used daily for decades with no "safety signals" of health harm. That's very appealing,

Tesa essentially mimics the "ideal conditions" that would trigger your body to max out endogenous growth hormone production. Perfect sleep, perfect nutrition, perfect health, and no stress,

ChatGPT didn't elaborate on why pulsatile release is beneficial. TLDR constant release like rHGH is not natural, and GH receptors can downregulate over time ("GH resistance").

That's why Tesa is very effective at reducing visceral fat at doses inducing much lower levels of GH/IGF than required to achieve similar fat lipolysis with rHGH. The pulses don't cause a loss of receptor responsiveness that occurs with constant exposure to GH. Visceral fat reduction is Tesa's main reason for existence, but it provides the other familiar rHGH benefits on skin, hair, nails etc at a level roughly similar to 2iu of rHGH.

So this makes for a good anti-aging, general health use case vs inherently riskier rHGH. Tesa is a modest GH increaser with an automatic transmission, while rHGH is a manual by comparison, requiring monitoring of glucose, IGF, kidney function, lipids, getting timing right, managing sides etc.

Hi, Ghoul. I guess Serostim does a decent job on Visceral fat but the feds wouldn't approve it for that, specifically, because its a bit "harsh" when it comes to effecting glucose. Not sure if I'm stating that correctly. Egrifta came about for that reason.

HIV patients had to deaLwith cosmetic effects the HIV cocktails had on their appearance....the distended belly look.
Unfortunately insurance companies, for the most part, used this as a reason not to cover Egrifta. Insurance will cover Serostim prescriptions but not Egrifta because its seen as more of a cosmetic thing. Not so when approving it, though? So, which one is it?

 

[Ghoul]

Hi, Ghoul. I guess Serostim does a decent job on Visceral fat but the feds wouldn't approve it for that, specifically, because its a bit "harsh" when it comes to effecting glucose. Not sure if I'm stating that correctly. Egrifta came about for that reason.

HIV patients had to deaLwith cosmetic effects the HIV cocktails had on their appearance....the distended belly look.
Unfortunately insurance companies, for the most part, used this as a reason not to cover Egrifta. Insurance will cover Serostim prescriptions but not Egrifta because its seen as more of a cosmetic thing. Not so when approving it, though? So, which one is it?

The approved FDA indication for Egrifta coverage is "severe psychological distress" previously fit, image conscious (predominantly) gay men suffer from the protruding visceral fat filled gut caused by old anti-HIV drugs.

What's odd to me is those drugs have been out of use for a long time.

Generally most HIV positive guys are covered by Medicaid. Unlike private healthcare, there's no profit motive (it's just taxpayer's money), so Medicaid just keeps paying for the $7,000/month prescriptions and not asking questions, Medicaid also is the main payer for most Serostim prescriptions, many of which are sold off.

The pharma company keeps coming out with new formulations of Egrifta to extend its patent. There are only a few thousand users in the US. Since rHGH prescriptions for anti aging use is banned by US law, I wonder if the plan is to get Egrifta approved for something like that, as it's not restricted.

All of that said; plenty of clinics seem to be offering rHGH and/or bootleg Tesa for anti aging, openly advertising, no one seems to care. I saw a chart of DEA prosecutions for rHGH and in the last ten years it's been down to 1-2 or zero annually now.

 

[psauce]

I can speak to my rationale, which may or may not be dumb.

Making and delivering consistently high quality HGH is a pretty tall order relative to most other compounds. There are reliable suppliers, and Jano's work has helped allow that choice to be empirical and objective. However, there are still plenty of reports of varying side effects, purity, and so on. That's a property of the molecule and it's not going to change.

By contrast, the secretagogue memetics are simpler molecules and more stable. They also have a slightly easier job to do.

A Growth Hormone–Releasing Hormone mimetic only has to interact with one receptor in one cell type in one region of one gland. If that interaction is correct, the body takes care of the rest.

HGH also interacts with one receptor, but it's in a wide variety of tissues in a wide variety of organs. That means a minor defect in manufacturing may have many of the functions you expect but be unable to perform others, and a user may mistake this for natural variety in how different people respond to HGH. It is known, for instance, that some mutations in HGH will produce a mutant that stimulates lipolysis in adipose tissue but may not stimulate IGF-1 production in the liver. That kind of thing would be very difficult to track down and troubleshoot.

Now, that may all be full of shit, and there are plenty of people who get it right every time. But my thinking is that buying the simpler molecule that has the simpler job is the most likely way to both get what's promised and track how I react. That's in addition to the many factors brough up by others already.

 

[Stealth500]

From my own reading it sounds like it's a better choice for women than men.

For some perhaps it's like how people are always trying to come with these steroid cycle ideas that don't have a test base or use orals or sarms only because they don't want to fuck with their natural testosterone production.

Maybe it's a way to get their feet wet by increasing their natural GH production with an agonist rather than an exogenous source halting their natural production.

I wonder what long term effects we will discover down the road with all these multiple agonist peptides forcing parts of their brain to increase the secretion of hormones.

 

[just some dude]

it’s simple. if you don’t want to go past your natural HGH limits, you no longer need to take somatropin, you can just take sermorelin. and even if you’re someone who wants to grow out your bones and/or muscles…. you can still use the growth hormone secretagogue WITH your HGH…

the secretagogue takes you to your natural HGH limits, while the HGH itself takes you past that

 

[just some dude]

also think about something like CJC with dac.. literally a growth hormone secretagogue that you only have to inject once a week, kinda like test! — super useful if you don’t need to go past natural limits.

comparing HGH itself to hgh secretagogues is like comparing HCG to test

 

[amazonas]

Better sleep, skin, hair, recovery and fatloss - to me this sounds like all the benefits you'd ever want for health and longevity, peptides could achieve this by putting you in the top of the natural range.

And if you want to fill up the muscles, spike up your IGF1 levels and mutate your body, you can go with higher dosages of HGH directly.

To me the peptides sound like all the good benefits without the sides, but i could be wrong. I think it depends entirely on your goals.

 

[benfrankparkway]

For me I used HGH for 18 months. Went up to 6iu, started slow, tried multiple dosing times, diet protocols. I couldn't get past the debilitating joint pain, it never went away. 2nd to that was all day lethargy and drowsiness. Took 3 months being off for joint pain to go away.
Now I am on Tesa started 2 months ago, feel same muscle fullness (which is great for pumps and strength). I do get some side effects like numbness in hands and slight carpal tunnel, but nothing compared to HGH. However that may be contributed to not as high levels of IGF-1 compared to when I was on HGH.
I never got bloodwork taken on HGH and I wish I did, but I will have labs pulled in 2 weeks to see where I am at on Tesa.
So for me it the reason for tesa of HGH is side effects, though I am sure I am not getting as much positive benefits. I was definitely leaner on HGH, but I had to keep carbs low on HGH to mitigate water retention sides. Tesa I am bulking and I feel great. BTW I am not on Testosterone or any other anabolics

 

[craigdt]

I think some of it is psychological too.

"Peptide" is so much less scary, especially to peptide mom's, than "PEDs" and or HGH.

Most people associate hgh with steroids, and a lot remember the Peyton Manning hgh controversy back in the day.

Hgh= steroids to lot of people.

Peptides= not scary

 

[amazonas]

For me I used HGH for 18 months. Went up to 6iu, started slow, tried multiple dosing times, diet protocols. I couldn't get past the debilitating joint pain, it never went away. 2nd to that was all day lethargy and drowsiness. Took 3 months being off for joint pain to go away.
Now I am on Tesa started 2 months ago, feel same muscle fullness (which is great for pumps and strength). I do get some side effects like numbness in hands and slight carpal tunnel, but nothing compared to HGH. However that may be contributed to not as high levels of IGF-1 compared to when I was on HGH.
I never got bloodwork taken on HGH and I wish I did, but I will have labs pulled in 2 weeks to see where I am at on Tesa.
So for me it the reason for tesa of HGH is side effects, though I am sure I am not getting as much positive benefits. I was definitely leaner on HGH, but I had to keep carbs low on HGH to mitigate water retention sides. Tesa I am bulking and I feel great. BTW I am not on Testosterone or any other anabolics

You and Ghoul made me order Tesamorelin lol, i was previously told Ipamorelin would be better for me.

How much are you taking per day?
Do you dose once a day? AM or PM?

Thank you

 

[Vicki]

.... The pulses don't cause a loss of receptor responsiveness that occurs with constant exposure to GH. Visceral fat reduction is Tesa's main reason for existence, but it provides the other familiar rHGH benefits on skin, hair, nails etc at a level roughly similar to 2iu of rHGH....

I've taken both and seem way more responsive to tesamorelin. I took 2mg of tesamorelin daily and my igf-1 was 268 at the high level.

On 4iu of hgh daily my levels were 215.

Baseline tested a few times was 110-120 range. ng/ml

Do you mean 2mg of hgh would be equivalent to 2mg of tesa? That might work out the same except I dont want to take 6iu of gh.

 

[benfrankparkway]

You and Ghoul made me order Tesamorelin lol, i was previously told Ipamorelin would be better for me.

How much are you taking per day?
Do you dose once a day? AM or PM?

Thank you

LOL I got my reasoning for trying tesa from @Ghoul. I am taking 2mg at night 1.5 hours after last meal. I am considering adding IPA

 

[benfrankparkway]

I've taken both and seem way more responsive to tesamorelin. I took 2mg of tesamorelin daily and my igf-1 was 268 at the high level.

On 4iu of hgh daily my levels were 215.

Baseline tested a few times was 110-120 range. ng/ml

Do you mean 2mg of hgh would be equivalent to 2mg of tesa? That might work out the same except I dont want to take 6iu of gh.

was your hgh underdosed. That is odd and amazing that 2mg Tesa put your igf-1 higher than 4iu of GH

 

[Vicki]

was your hgh underdosed. That is odd and amazing that 2mg Tesa put your igf-1 higher than 4iu of GH

It was tested and came out good

 

[Ghoul]

I've taken both and seem way more responsive to tesamorelin. I took 2mg of tesamorelin daily and my igf-1 was 268 at the high level.

On 4iu of hgh daily my levels were 215.

Baseline tested a few times was 110-120 range. ng/ml

Do you mean 2mg of hgh would be equivalent to 2mg of tesa? That might work out the same except I dont want to take 6iu of gh.

That makes sense. Thanks to estrogen, women produce 2-3x as much GH as men (but a lower rate of conversion to IGF).

Tesamorelin AMPLIFIES endogenous production. So if Tesa boosts GH by, I'll use arbitrary numbers, 30%, and your endogenous release is 100 units of GH, (units is just used for illustration here, not a real metric) you're now releasing 130 units. The equivalent male might release 50 units of GH at baseline. With Tesa's 30% boost it's now 65 units.

If you both inject 100 units of rHGH, endogenous production is shut down, and the male will get a significant boost compared to 65 from Tesa. While the female is getting less than with Tesa. She would need a significantly higher dose of rHGH for a similar benefit. First the 100 baseline has to be entirely replaced with rHGH (endogenous production. is shut down from exogenous rHGH), then, at least another 30 needs to be added to the dose just to match what Tesa does.

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To date, almost all solid malignancies have implicated Insulin-like growth factor (IGF) signalling as a driver of tumour growth. However, the remarkable leve...

www.frontiersin.org

 

[Avies48]

Well if i have issues with gh i guess ill try tesa…