Quick Intro and Background

[Salocin05]

Hello MesoRx community,


I’m a 20-year-old male, 6'0" and 200 lbs. I’m currently in university studying Microbiology and Physiology while preparing for the MCAT. My main focus right now is learning more about peptides and growth hormone, and I’m excited to join this forum to gain insight from those with experience.


I’ve been lifting for 6 years (4 years very consistently) and train 5x per week. I’m currently in a 200-calorie deficit, cutting while tracking macros with a kitchen scale. I also make sure to get 7–8 hours of sleep each night, usually from 10 PM to 7 AM, and I log all my workouts in a journal. Despite this consistency, I’ve noticed I’ve been plateaued for the past ~6 months, which has been frustrating and is part of why I’m here.


Current Stack:

• Reta 4mg - weekly
• IGF-1 LR3 100 MCT daily IM into worked muscle
• rHGH- 4iu daily
• GLOW70- 7mg daily
• Semax & Selank (for nootropics) 200 MCT each Semax morning Selank afternoon.
• Berberine -1200mg daily with meals.

I’m also consistent with micronutrients — daily multivitamin plus supplemental calcium, magnesium, and potassium.


I recently had bloodwork done and my total testosterone came back around 400 ng/dL, with estradiol around 20 pg/mL. I’m considering AAS in the future, but I know I have a lot to learn before taking that step.


I’d love to hear your advice or thoughts on training, recovery, and next steps. Looking forward to learning from everyone here and contributing where I can.

 

[Elektrobot]

200-calorie deficit

plateaued

Sometimes obvious things are obvious Mr. MCAT biology guy

You're gonna be a real standout in your field

 

[Salocin05]

Sometimes obvious things are obvious Mr. MCAT biology guy

You're gonna be a real standout in your field

I should have been more specific, I started my deficit about two weeks ago. Mostly because I haven't been seeing much strength and muscle gain so I might as well get lean. Before then I was eating right around maintenance or 100-200 calorie surplus. My plateau has been ongoing since around mid April when I first noticed it.

 

[Matty_G]

I should have been more specific, I started my deficit about two weeks ago. Mostly because I haven't been seeing much strength and muscle gain so I might as well get lean. Before then I was eating right around maintenance or 100-200 calorie surplus. My plateau has been ongoing since around mid April when I first noticed it.

if you want to continue to gain strength and size then you should have increased your surplus.

You’re working backwards now. Do you want to get lean or build size?

 

[Salocin05]

if you want to continue to gain strength and size then you should have increased your surplus.

You’re working backwards now. Do you want to get lean or build size?

Right now I'm going to run reta for about 2 months and get lean (I understand I'm going to loose muscle mass). However afterwards I wan't to gain about 10-15lbs of muscle depending on how much I lose. Basically I want to get to 210lbs lean. Which is probably going to take me overshooting to about 220lbs and then cutting back from there until I'm lean again.

 

[Elektrobot]

Right now I'm going to run reta for about 2 months and get lean

You are likely further away from "lean" than you think. To give yourself a long runway for a surplus, get down to 10-12% You should see chest veins at 12, ab veins at 10. I'm guessing you will weigh about 170 there .

Basically I want to get to 210lbs lean. Which is probably going to take me overshooting to about 220lbs

You probably have a long road to this. Likely years. Don't overeat thinking you are going to make it happen faster.

 

[Matty_G]

Right now I'm going to run reta for about 2 months and get lean (I understand I'm going to loose muscle mass). However afterwards I wan't to gain about 10-15lbs of muscle depending on how much I lose. Basically I want to get to 210lbs lean. Which is probably going to take me overshooting to about 220lbs and then cutting back from there until I'm lean again.

You wouldn’t necessarily lose lean muscle mass on Reta if your protein intake is adequate and training consistently. I also have no experience with it so other members can speak to it.

There’s also the search function with tons of info.

Welcome to MESO btw

 

[Matty_G]

Pics would help here if you’re comfortable.

 

[Elektrobot]

I’m a 20-year-old male

rHGH- 4iu daily

Why are you taking GH at 20 years old?

 

[BigDadd7]

Your deficit sucks and your surplus sucks. You're half assing and surprised by plateaus. Youll be lucky to lose or gain a pound a month with those numbers. You don't need any drugs at 20. You need to commit to eating less, or eating more.

 

[Salocin05]

Pics would help here if you’re comfortable.

Heres me with optimal lighting, for sure a little bit fraudulent but this is what I'm basically at right now.

Your deficit sucks and your surplus sucks. You're half assing and surprised by plateaus. Youll be lucky to lose or gain a pound a month with those numbers. You don't need any drugs at 20. You need to commit to eating less, or eating more.

I've read a lot of conflicting literature on deficits and surplus. The majority of it says that a minor deficit around 200 cals will allow me to loose muscle without loosing too much muscle mass. Also anecdotally this is what my buddies are doing and they look much better than me. However, I'm totally open to switching things up and changing my views, that what I'm here for after all.

You are likely further away from "lean" than you think. To give yourself a long runway for a surplus, get down to 10-12% You should see chest veins at 12, ab veins at 10. I'm guessing you will weigh about 170 there .



You probably have a long road to this. Likely years. Don't overeat thinking you are going to make it happen faster.

You can see my picture here, I don't think I'm deluding myself too hard here. I believe Im around 15-16% bf at the moment.

I can totally understand this being a long process, like I said in my intro post I have already been consistently lifting for around 4 years so I have no qualms with the journey. I would definitely like to optimize that journey though because I don't think what I'm doing at the moment is as good as it can be.

 

[Salocin05]

P.S.
Please don't ask about my legs. Im working on it.

 

[Salocin05]

Why are you taking GH at 20 years old?

This is gonna be a segmented bulleted list of my research notes and thoughts so please bear with me but here my reasoning.

Multi Pathway Activation:
1. JAK-STAT Pathway: Increases endogenous IGF-1 Production

2.PI3K-Akt-mTOR Pathway: IGF-1 (from HGH not exogenous) -> IGF-1R-> PI3K ->Akt -> mTOR. [Increases muscle protein synthesis, hypertrophy and tissue repair]

3. MAPK/ERK Pathway: Cell proliferation and differentiation (enhanced in muscle satellite cells and fibroblasts). Also boosts collagen production [Good synergy with GHK-CU from the GLOW blend here]

4.Lipolytic Signaling: Stimulates and increase in Hormone Sensitive Lipase activity -> Mobilzing triglycerides in adipose tissues. (Fat loss boost). [Works through fat oxidation and will synergize well with retatrutide]

Some other benefits:
Improved deep-wave sleep (I've really noticed this one).
Supports neuroplasticity and can possibly synergize with my Semax / Selank

Negative effects and how I'm mitigating:

1a. Insulin resistance: HGH antagonizes insulin thereby reducing glucose uptake in both muscle and fat.
1b. I'm currently on retatrutide with supplemental berberine, I am also do for a blood panel next month.

2a. Downregulation of HGH production: Extended receptor saturation leads to a reduction in active receptors.
2b. HGH production has been shown to naturally recover much better than something link Testosterone. However if my blood panels come back negative I may use a secretagogue like CJC.

3a. Acne / Carpal tunnel. Im including them both here since there kinda short.
3b. I have a prescribed retinoid / antibiotic cream. I'm not taking enough or long enough to get Carpal tunnel (Or organ growth for that matter).

If you guys think I missed anything please let me know. These are just my ideas based off what I've read and learned. If newer or better information exists I would love to know.

 

[Elektrobot]

This is gonna be a segmented bulleted list of my research notes and thoughts so please bear with me but here my reasoning.

Multi Pathway Activation:
1. JAK-STAT Pathway: Increases endogenous IGF-1 Production

2.PI3K-Akt-mTOR Pathway: IGF-1 (from HGH not exogenous) -> IGF-1R-> PI3K ->Akt -> mTOR. [Increases muscle protein synthesis, hypertrophy and tissue repair]

3. MAPK/ERK Pathway: Cell proliferation and differentiation (enhanced in muscle satellite cells and fibroblasts). Also boosts collagen production [Good synergy with GHK-CU from the GLOW blend here]

4.Lipolytic Signaling: Stimulates and increase in Hormone Sensitive Lipase activity -> Mobilzing triglycerides in adipose tissues. (Fat loss boost). [Works through fat oxidation and will synergize well with retatrutide]

Some other benefits:
Improved deep-wave sleep (I've really noticed this one).
Supports neuroplasticity and can possibly synergize with my Semax / Selank

Negative effects and how I'm mitigating:

1a. Insulin resistance: HGH antagonizes insulin thereby reducing glucose uptake in both muscle and fat.
1b. I'm currently on retatrutide with supplemental berberine, I am also do for a blood panel next month.

2a. Downregulation of HGH production: Extended receptor saturation leads to a reduction in active receptors.
2b. HGH production has been shown to naturally recover much better than something link Testosterone. However if my blood panels come back negative I may use a secretagogue like CJC.

3a. Acne / Carpal tunnel. Im including them both here since there kinda short.
3b. I have a prescribed retinoid / antibiotic cream. I'm not taking enough or long enough to get Carpal tunnel (Or organ growth for that matter).

If you guys think I missed anything please let me know. These are just my ideas based off what I've read and learned. If newer or better information exists I would love to know.

I'll ask again.

Why are you taking HGH at 20 years old?

What was your IGF before you started using exogenous GH?

 

[Elektrobot]

Everything you wrote is reddit level dumb, and you are 20+% bodyfat buddy

There is no reason for you to be using / doing anything other than eating right, sticking to a solid training program, and sleeping.

You need to find some different influences for nutritional information. Read a book.

This one will be a good start

https://www.amazon.com/NSCAs-Guide-Sport-Exercise-Nutrition/dp/1492593516 (Read This)

Spend your money on a coach / trainer. Not HGH and BS peptides.

 

[Salocin05]

I'll ask again.

Why are you taking HGH at 20 years old?

What was your IGF before you started using exogenous GH?

View attachment 352012

Last time I had a thyroid and GH panel was at 16 but I was diagnosed with a subclinical hypothyroidism (my mom has it too). My TSH was elevated low T4 and T3, my GH stim test was blunted ? but my GH Suppression test was normal I cant recall exactly my IGF-1 levels but I think they were low. They had me do lifestyle changes and I was scheduled for another check in before they were gonna start me on T4 replacement however my family moved cities and life got in the way so that never happened. I will however now be scheduling a GH panel test and I'm gonna stop HGH for a while until I get those results back. I realize I may have jumped the gun a bit here chasing results.

 

[Elektrobot]

Last time I had a thyroid and GH panel was at 16 but I was diagnosed with a subclinical hypothyroidism (my mom has it too). My TSH was elevated low T4 and T3, my GH stim test was blunted ? but my GH Suppression test was normal I cant recall exactly my IGF-1 levels but I think they were low. They had me do lifestyle changes and I was scheduled for another check in before they were gonna start me on T4 replacement however my family moved cities and life got in the way so that never happened. I will however now be scheduling a GH panel test and I'm gonna stop HGH for a while until I get those results back. I realize I may have jumped the gun a bit here chasing results.

Give it 4 weeks after stopping to make sure you are reading your natural baseline igf and not an inflated number from exogenous hgh

 

[Salocin05]

Everything you wrote is reddit level dumb, and you are 20+% bodyfat buddy

There is no reason for you to be using / doing anything other than eating right, sticking to a solid training program, and sleeping.

You need to find some different influences for nutritional information. Read a book.

This one will be a good start

https://www.amazon.com/NSCAs-Guide-Sport-Exercise-Nutrition/dp/1492593516 (Read This)

Spend your money on a coach / trainer. Not HGH and BS peptides.

I will definitely check out the book, thank you for the recommendation. Money isn't really an issue, and while you may call them BS I have noticed som significant benefits from some of the peptides. Reta is for sure helping with my appetite, and I feel slightly better with the Semax, especially for morning classes. I also think the GLOW blend has improved my skin quaility, I have a lot less acne right now and my skin just feels smoother. Lifestyle wise I think I have things under control I hit my macros, I'm currently trying out a new upper - lower split thats gonna be 6x a week, lastly my sleep has been relatively good, I've been sick a few times the past month but I'm getting 6-8 hours every night. I may have to invest in a coach, I tried a few different personal trainers previously however I haven't had any good experiences with them, I have a disability that severely limits my mobility in my arms (no strength limitation I just cant bend it certain ways), and none of them have been able to really work around that. Also personality wise I just didn't like them. From a nutrition and PED standpoint I totally get the need for it and I am going to start looking around. If you have any recommendations I would love to hear it.

 

[Salocin05]

Give it 4 weeks after stopping to make sure you are reading your natural baseline igf and not an inflated number from exogenous hgh

Will do

 

[Salocin05]

and you are 20+% bodyfat

I had an inbody scan last week that put me at 12% I know those are inaccurate but it cant be that bad right ??