Looking for advice on my blood work

[Mycoidian]

I'd love to get some input on my latest blood work.

Background: I'm 58 and have been on doctor-supervised TRT for the past 10+ years. I work out consistently, have ~11%bf, and am in excellent health. I take 150mg/wk of TestC split into two doses, 250iu of HCG 3x/week, and Zinc Picolinate and DIM daily to help regulate estrogen. For the past year I've also been taking CJC-1295 + Ipamorelin for GH support (my dr is a big fan of peptides.) I'm completely new to the world of AAS though and am learning how to dive deeper into my blood work.

About 6 months ago, after lurking here for a while and reading about other's experiences, I decided to add 50mg/week of Deca for joint support and 50mg/week of MastP just to see why people like it. Overall I feel great: no noticeable side effects, I'm sleeping well, my joints feel great, sex is great, and I'm gaining muscle/losing fat.

I just got my latest blood work back since adding the Deca & MastP:

Test: >1500
Free Test: 46
Estradiol: 96.4
PSA: 3.5 (jumped up from ~2.3)

All these numbers seem high to me. I'm guessing the PSA jumping up to 3.5 is due to the Mast, which is known to cause BPH. Has anyone else seen this happen with only 50mg/wk? I've stopped taking it and will retest in a couple of months to see if my PSA goes down. I'm curious to know if anyone else has been down this path before.

The Estradiol strikes me as too high too, but my doctor is fine with it saying that comes with high Test. He's never been big on tracking Estradiol saying that he prefers to go by symptoms/how you feel. And I do feel great. But is there any reason to think I should try lowering it a bit? I don't know what I should be aiming for here (other than feeling good.)

Anything else stand out to the more experienced folks? (Next time I test will do the uncapped Total T test so I can get an actual value for that.) Thanks!

 

[Ghoul]

I'd love to get some input on my latest blood work.

Background: I'm 58 and have been on doctor-supervised TRT for the past 10+ years. I work out consistently, have ~11%bf, and am in excellent health. I take 150mg/wk of TestC split into two doses, 250iu of HCG 3x/week, and Zinc Picolinate and DIM daily to help regulate estrogen. For the past year I've also been taking CJC-1295 + Ipamorelin for GH support (my dr is a big fan of peptides.) I'm completely new to the world of AAS though and am learning how to dive deeper into my blood work.

About 6 months ago, after lurking here for a while and reading about other's experiences, I decided to add 50mg/week of Deca for joint support and 50mg/week of MastP just to see why people like it. Overall I feel great: no noticeable side effects, I'm sleeping well, my joints feel great, sex is great, and I'm gaining muscle/losing fat.

I just got my latest blood work back since adding the Deca & MastP:

Test: >1500
Free Test: 46
Estradiol: 96.4
PSA: 3.5 (jumped up from ~2.3)

All these numbers seem high to me. I'm guessing the PSA jumping up to 3.5 is due to the Mast, which is known to cause BPH. Has anyone else seen this happen with only 50mg/wk? I've stopped taking it and will retest in a couple of months to see if my PSA goes down. I'm curious to know if anyone else has been down this path before.

The Estradiol strikes me as too high too, but my doctor is fine with it saying that comes with high Test. He's never been big on tracking Estradiol saying that he prefers to go by symptoms/how you feel. And I do feel great. But is there any reason to think I should try lowering it a bit? I don't know what I should be aiming for here (other than feeling good.)

Anything else stand out to the more experienced folks? (Next time I test will do the uncapped Total T test so I can get an actual value for that.) Thanks!

I would've expected sides with that estrogen level, terrible lipids, high hematocrit, BP out of control, but if that's all good (it is good right?) and you feel great, roll with it.

 

[Mycoidian]

Lipids are ok (LDL is slightly elevated, but Mast is known to raise that, and everything else is normal range) and BP is normal too. Dr did not order hematocrit - will make sure to do that next time. I find it interesting that you find the number looks high too though. I'm tempted to bring it down just to see what that feels like.

 

[sionnach]

All these numbers seem high to me

They are. Why bother with the HCG?

 

[Smokeythabear]

They are. Why bother with the HCG?

That and the GH secretagogues at 58 are interesting choices. That’s a lot of frequent injections and money for your pituitary gland to push out the equivalent of like 1 to 1.5IU. Why not just use 2-4IU of exogenous GH?

 

[Eddie.]

Why the peptides? Just take HGH. Also, HCG at your age is a waste of money IMO, you're only battling with high estradiol from it..you could benefit from just taking DHEA for keeping neurosteroids in check.

Your estradiol is very, very high and with PSA that elevated I'd start an AI like yesterday. If your DHT is elevated in presence of high estradiol you have increased risk of prostate cancer, so keep an eye.

 

[buck]

Basically the number show you are on a cycle not TRT. If that is your goal then fine. If TRT is your goal then you need to drop the dose. Been on Dr prescribed TRT for over 25 years. I try to keep my E2 in mid-upper normal ranges as studies seem to point the tat as being best for long term health. Use HCG to keep as many pathways n the body active/normal as i can. I don't wait for symptoms to happen before i protect my health. If i waited for symptoms then high blood pressure or high glucose levels would be OK to have for many years before doing something about them.

 

[Mycoidian]

First of all, thank you for all the feedback. This is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. I really appreciate it and find it very helpful. Some answers to the questions/comments above:

Why mess with peptides?

Simply because I didn’t know any better. My doctor is a fan of peptides, and CJC + Ipamorelin gets my IGF-1 to between 200-250 which is roughly mid-range for a guy in his 20s should have. So it seems to be working for me. I cycle it 5 days on/2 days off. I did ask my doctor about HGH at one point and he recommended against taking it so I just went with his advice. I learned how to buy peptides for cheap overseas, so the cost was fairly minimal. At this point I have a bunch in my freezer so it’s a sunk cost. I do hear the strong message here that HGH is “better” than peptides, so I’ll probably switch to that once I use up my existing supply. Unless there’s a good reason to do it sooner. (Would love to hear more about that if there is a good reason to do so.)

Why are you taking HCG?

Short answer: to support my libido. After ~10 years of cruising along at 180mg/week my Total T was 800-1400, FreeT was 15-30, and E2 was 30-50. All good (including BP, lipids, etc.) according to my doctor. But if I was honest with myself, my libido was flat. I thought it was just getting older, being busy, 25+ years of marriage, etc., but I discovered people talking about this exact issue in online forums and learned that I might be able to do something about it. I decided to try two things: (1) Lower my T dosage, as many people report their libido is better at lower dosages. (2) Adding HCG. Apparently your balls produce more than just T, and some of these other things support libido, so it’s good to keep them “active”. Seemed reasonable to me.

First thing I did was “reset” my TRT protocol by dropping down to 100mg/week for 8 weeks and doing a full panel to get a new baseline. Results: TotalT 395, FreeT 13, E2 24. Everything else normal. Somewhat surprisingly, I felt fine at this much lower level. Then I increased my T dosage to 150mg/wk (30mg lower than my previous dosage – seemed reasonable) and added 250ui of HCG 3x/wk. My libido improved significantly and my sex life has been better in the past few months than it has been in years. So mission accomplished from this perspective.

You should take DHEA too

Agreed, and I forgot to mention that I do take this. My doctor likes to keep my DHEA level over 300. Was 350 in my latest blood work.

You’re not on TRT, you’re on a cycle

Yeah, I’ve kind of come to the same conclusion as well (I only recently learned what a cycle was!) My goal is the same as buck’s: optimize for long-term health. I will aim for getting my numbers in mid-upper normal ranges as well going forwards. This was good to clarify.


More detail on my latest results and thinking

I was surprised when my latest numbers come in so high given my lower-than-usual T dosage. With respect to T, I suspect three things might be happening: (1) adding HCG has restarted endogenous T production, so that + what I’m injecting has pushed up my numbers. (2) The Deca I added for my joints (which works great for me) is apparently known to increase Free T, and (3) apparently the non-LC/MS testosterone test I did picks up Deca as testosterone, so these might also be boosting my numbers as well.

As for my Estradiol, I don’t know why that’s so high. The only mechanism I’m aware of is because my T is high. (Deca might be contributing a bit too, but is not likely significant.) As I mentioned earlier, I feel great and have no perceivable sides though. But I hear the feedback that I should bring it down. I’m also under the impression that Masteron blocks estrogen at the receptor level so that might be somehow shielding me from sides. All the more reason to get it down given that I just stopped taking this. In any case, I just took 0.25g Anastrozole and will do so 1-2x/week going forwards, provided no ill effects. Hopefully lowering my T dosage will bring this down too though. (And yes, I will be careful I don’t crash it.)

The jump in PSA is the most concerning to me. I asked ChatGPT what peptides and AAS might contribute to an increase in PSA and the answer was somewhat humbling: it was basically a list of everything I was currently taking, with Masteron at the top of the list. Even the peptides can contribute to raised PSA when combined with AAS. I just did one of those cancer screening blood tests though (purely preventative) and it came back negative, so I’m not immediately concerned about prostate cancer. But I’ve stopped the Mast, and will likely take a break from the peptides as well. I don’t want to mess around with my prostate.


My plan going forwards

Laying it all out for feeback/criticism:

• Lower Testosterone dosage. If 100mg/wk was too low, and 150mg/week was too high, I’ll do 125mg/week and see where things land.
• Maintain HCG. I believe this is what is helping my libido so I don’t want to mess with it yet. Also, is likely affecting my T levels, so is best to keep it constant while adjusting my T dosage.
• Stop Masteron. This is known for causing BHP and is most likely the primary contributor to my increase in PSA.
• Lower Deca dosage. This really helps my joints, so I don’t want to stop it. But I will try lowering the dose over time to find minimum effective dosage that works.
• Pause CJC/Ipamorelin. I’ve been taking this for a while, so it’s probably good to take a break. I’ll re-evaluate after I get my next round of blood work done.
• Take an AI. My E2 is clearly too high so I will start taking this immediately. My E2 should come down as a result of lowering my T dosage though, so I will tread very carefully with this.
• Get new bloodwork in 8 weeks, do the LC/MS test to get accurate T numbers.

Anything anyone would do differently? Pls call out any stupidity on my part. There is a ton of expertise in this community and I’m eager to learn from it.

 

[sionnach]

Anything anyone would do differently? Pls call out any stupidity on my part. There is a ton of expertise in this community and I’m eager to learn from it.

I'm just some rando in the abyss, these are just my worthless opinions:

I wouldn't lower the test, I'd increase it and drop the hcg. Your test is high because you're producing it and taking it. But your E is high because you're taking HCG and the test you're producing isn't consistent. If you ditch the HCG and just do test (you can even target 1500 if that feels good for you), your E will level out and you won't need an AI. I don't think the HCG is improving your libido as much as steady test and lower estradiol would, and at 58 I doubt you're trying to have more kids. And you haven't mentioned shbg at all.

True, your PSA could be higher because of the mast. But it could also just be you need to get your prostate checked.

You're right to cut the IPA/CJC out. Don't get me wrong, there are advantages to the secretagogues, but when I'm 58 I'll just be doing straight HGH.

Yes, get more blood work. If you're changing things up, get it more frequently. I'm nowhere near your age and I do every 4-5 weeks. I'm tinkering inside the machinery, I want all the data.

 

[Mycoidian]

Thanks for the feedback - much appreciated.

Re: blood work: good idea. I'm going to start ordering my own tests so I'm not constrained by my doctor's schedule/selection of tests. My SGBH has always been normal (mid-range), so he doesn't always test it. It was 47 back in March.

Re: prostate. Will definitely get it checked. Solid advice.

Re: CJC/IPA: I understand that they're not as effective as HGH. But aside from the cost/hassle/lack of relative effectiveness (which I all understand), is there another reason I should NOT be taking them? Just trying to make sure I fully understand the reasoning behind cutting them out.

Re: HCG: I just dug into this further and didn't realize that HCG stimulates additional aromatization in the testes. So this could explain my high E2. Now I understand all the "drop HCG" feedback. This is super-helpful. (And yes, I'm done with kids)

I'm going to rethink my plan a bit.

One additional data point: I took 0.25g of Anastrozole a couple days ago and have felt somewhat "flat" since then. I didn't crash my E2, but I definitely felt "better" when it was higher. Not sure what to make of this yet.

 

[Mycoidian]

Basically the number show you are on a cycle not TRT. If that is your goal then fine. If TRT is your goal then you need to drop the dose. Been on Dr prescribed TRT for over 25 years. I try to keep my E2 in mid-upper normal ranges as studies seem to point the tat as being best for long term health. Use HCG to keep as many pathways n the body active/normal as i can. I don't wait for symptoms to happen before i protect my health. If i waited for symptoms then high blood pressure or high glucose levels would be OK to have for many years before doing something about them.

You seem to be doing what I'm trying to do: optimize for long-term health. Just curious, how much HCG are you taking? I now understand that HCG might be raising my E2 levels, but I also buy into the "keep as many pathways in the body active/normal as you can" philosophy. I want to investigate whether lowering my dosage would be a good approach. It would be useful to know what is working for you as a data point. Thx!

 

[buck]

You seem to be doing what I'm trying to do: optimize for long-term health. Just curious, how much HCG are you taking? I now understand that HCG might be raising my E2 levels, but I also buy into the "keep as many pathways in the body active/normal as you can" philosophy. I want to investigate whether lowering my dosage would be a good approach. It would be useful to know what is working for you as a data point. Thx!

Been using HCG for well over 20 years. I have used 100 iu a day, 500 2x a week but mostly have done 250 iu 2x a week. One of the better studies i have seen show 250 iu every other day to very closely mimic natural T production in healthy people. As HCG has shown some benefits with the p450 pathway, nervous system, immune system, bone dencily. And i tend to think there are likely other things that have not been discovered yet. I will continue to use it but people should do what ever is in their comfort zone.

 

[sionnach]

Re: CJC/IPA: I understand that they're not as effective as HGH. But aside from the cost/hassle/lack of relative effectiveness (which I all understand), is there another reason I should NOT be taking them? Just trying to make sure I fully understand the reasoning behind cutting them out.

There is the issue of output - the secretagogues are to maximize your output potential. What is your output potential? We really don't know. It's different per person and dependent on a jillion variables. At 58, it's probably not that high though. HGH on the other hand is dosed in a known quantity and can be tailored to your goals, which for me, would be to get a higher IGF-1 than the average for my age, at minimum. It's the most easily confirmed metric that it's working.

I think you're asking for CJC/ipa cons though. Again, we really don't know. They're just not as well-studied as HGH. We don't have a good idea of the long term side effects yet. We don't even know that much about what else they're doing in our body. Tesamorelin is probably the most documented, and even then only for a hyperspecific use case (reducing visceral fat in AIDS patients).

Re: HCG: I just dug into this further and didn't realize that HCG stimulates additional aromatization in the testes. So this could explain my high E2. Now I understand all the "drop HCG" feedback. This is super-helpful. (And yes, I'm done with kids)

Tbh I found it an extremely odd choice at 58 with no plan for more kids. The very idea of HCG as a sort of TRT is baffling to me on the whole.

 

[dinfar1337]

i wanted to read this thread but im not bringing my glasses to read. please use a bigger font size!

Background: I'm 58 and have been on doctor-supervised TRT for the past 10+ years. I work out consistently, have ~11%bf, and am in excellent health. I take 150mg/wk of TestC split into two doses, 250iu of HCG 3x/week, and Zinc Picolinate and DIM daily to help regulate estrogen. For the past year I've also been taking CJC-1295 + Ipamorelin for GH support (my dr is a big fan of peptides.) I'm completely new to the world of AAS though and am learning how to dive deeper into my blood work.