Blood Pressure

[malfeasance]

*sorry "baxdRostat"

New drug hailed as ‘gamechanger’ in tackling stubbornly high blood pressure

Trials of baxdrostat have produced ‘exciting’ results for people whose hypertension has proved difficult to control

www.theguardian.com

Blocks production of aldosterone, and, according to the Guardian, works in 4 out of 10 patients, which was better than the 2 of 10 for other drugs, but depressing statistics in both instances.

 

[Ghoul]

Blocks production of aldosterone, and, according to the Guardian, works in 4 out of 10 patients, which was better than the 2 of 10 for other drugs, but depressing statistics in both instances.

What they're saying is that for 40% the drop from solely using Baxdrostat was sufficient to bring them below 130 systolic.

The other 60% also experienced significant reductions, but not enough to bring systolic below 130, and will require combinations with other bp medications to get down to the ideal range.

So in cases where part of their hypertension is from aldosterone, the treatment resistant component, they may have more "conventional" blood pressure causes as well requiring ARB, CCBs etc.

These results are considered remarkable for people with treatment resistant hypertension.

Also, none of the anti-androgen effects of spironolactone, or any of its other sides either. Much more selective and precise.

 

[OilCarrier]

Interesting point on the aldosterone. I will test for that!

I am on 80 telmisartan and 5 cialis, but still often measure around 130/70 or 125/65 on a good day, the telm does not seem to do much for me really. It makes me think my BP might benefit even more from cilnidipine (or is it cilnipidine?) due to it's effects on the fight/flight state.

Previously I have noticed 100 mg pregnenolone and 50 mg DHEA helped with 'being high strung'. Since having high test might cause a fight/flight response. and sleep quality improved as well.

I do too little cardio I must admit, which is why my RHR is creeping up a bit to an avg of 70-73.

 

[Ghoul]

Interesting point on the aldosterone. I will test for that!

I am on 80 telmisartan and 5 cialis, but still often measure around 130/70 or 125/65 on a good day, the telm does not seem to do much for me really. It makes me think my BP might benefit even more from cilnidipine (or is it cilnipidine?) due to it's effects on the fight/flight state.

Previously I have noticed 100 mg pregnenolone and 50 mg DHEA helped with 'being high strung'. Since having high test might cause a fight/flight response. and sleep quality improved as well.

I do too little cardio I must admit, which is why my RHR is creeping up a bit to an avg of 70-73.

You mean your BP was similar without Telm? Non responders are fairly rare.

But you're not too far off ideal. If you do some cardio, you might be able to just use Cilnidipine and Cialis to get to sub 120 systolic, slow your heart rate, and feel a bit calmer under pressure,

Keeping the Telm on board may be helpful anyway though. It reduces the risk (though very low with cilnidipine) of CCB induced edema, and improves some metabolic markers.

You can get combo tablets of the two. Though I really like 20mg cilnidipine vs the more common 10mg, and had to drop Telm to 40 to avoid hypotension and accomodate a 20mg dose of cilnidipine. 20mg cilnidipine for me is like propranolol without the sedation.

 

[Lifting88]

What bloodpressuremonitor do you use

I have a microlife with large cuff but cuff is almost longer then my arm so when 1 stay 1 inch off my forarm the cuff sit to my shoulder

 

[OilCarrier]

You mean your BP was similar without Telm? Non responders are fairly rare.

But you're not too far off ideal. If you do some cardio, you might be able to just use Cilnidipine and Cialis to get to sub 120 systolic, slow your heart rate, and feel a bit calmer under pressure,

Keeping the Telm on board may be helpful anyway though. It reduces the risk (though very low with cilnidipine) of CCB induced edema, and improves some metabolic markers.

You can get combo tablets of the two. Though I really like 20mg cilnidipine vs the more common 10mg, and had to drop Telm to 40 to avoid hypotension and accomodate a 20mg dose of cilnidipine. 20mg cilnidipine for me is like propranolol without the sedation.

Yeah BP was the same before telm. It's prescribed (so it's in aluminum) as I have a cooperating doc. I use telm only preventative, since I suspect the telm can be beneficial in preventing and reverting(?) LVH when running higher doses of test. I might go to 40 telm if I can acquire Ciln.

I am currently in a western eu country where there is a close to 100% seizure rate when ordering from India. So unless we have an EU store offering it, I cannot access it. Which is a bummer for now. It sounds like ciln is exactly what I need though.

@Ghoul I have one other question that is (for now) better suited for a DM. I will send you one right now, curious what you think of it.

 

[adrenalytic]

What bloodpressuremonitor do you use

I have a microlife with large cuff but cuff is almost longer then my arm so when 1 stay 1 inch off my forarm the cuff sit to my shoulder

that's pretty standard. I use an Omron and the cuff pushes right up into my armpit when fitted properly. I do feel like I have T-rex arms even though they are perfectly proportioned.

 

[OilCarrier]

that's pretty standard. I use an Omron and the cuff pushes right up into my armpit when fitted properly. I do feel like I have T-rex arms even though they are perfectly proportioned.

Haha I got mine from USA, an xxl Omron. I figured everyone in the USA must be a freak. Glad to hear that is common.

 

[Lifting88]

Yeah BP was the same before telm. It's prescribed (so it's in aluminum) as I have a cooperating doc. I use telm only preventative, since I suspect the telm can be beneficial in preventing and reverting(?) LVH when running higher doses of test. I might go to 40 telm if I can acquire Ciln.

I am currently in a western eu country where there is a close to 100% seizure rate when ordering from India. So unless we have an EU store offering it, I cannot access it. Which is a bummer for now. It sounds like ciln is exactly what I need though.

@Ghoul I have one other question that is (for now) better suited for a DM. I will send you one right now, curious what you think of it.

Dm me maybe i can help

 

[Lifting88]

@Ghoul what will you do when bloodpressure doens't drop enough on meds

My friend had bloodpressure around 135/145 even on 80 telma, he start with 5 mg ampli raise to 10 but almost no drop

My own bloodpressure is better around 12o/60 but i also didnt see a big drop after 2 weeks on your protocol 40 telma 20 clini only heartrate seems to be lower with 5 point on 10 clini and 10 on 20mg

 

[Ghoul]

@Ghoul what will you do when bloodpressure doens't drop enough on meds

My friend had bloodpressure around 135/145 even on 80 telma, he start with 5 mg ampli raise to 10 but almost no drop

My own bloodpressure is better around 12o/60 but i also didnt see a big drop after 2 weeks on your protocol 40 telma 20 clini only heartrate seems to be lower with 5 point on 10 clini and 10 on 20mg

It depends if it drops at all (resistant) or it dropped, just not enough.

Where did his bp start?

120/60 I would leave alone, it will slowly drop a few more points and stabilize around 6 weeks, and you're getting close to the lowest you want to be.

 

[Lifting88]

It depends if it drops at all (resistant) or it dropped, just not enough.

Where did his bp start?

120/60 I would leave alone, it will slowly drop a few more points and stabilize around 6 weeks, and you're getting close to the lowest you want to be.

With my friend it looks like it stay high no matter if he takes 40 or 80 telma and 5 or 10 mg ampli


No 120/60 is good but im on a cruise so i hope i stays around 120/125 on a blast

 

[Ghoul]

With my friend it looks like it stay high no matter if he takes 40 or 80 telma and 5 or 10 mg ampli


No 120/60 is good but im on a cruise so i hope i stays around 120/125 on a blast

The lower blood pressure goes the less BP meds have an impact, they "flatten out". So for instance if you raised telm to 80 now, you'd probobly drop only a little to around 116/58. But if on blast it rises from 120/60 to 130/70, increasing telm to 80 would have a much bigger effect, dropping you back to 120/60 again. So if you have telm 40 on hand and BP rises on blast just add it to your current protocol, then stop it when on cruise.

For your fried, the next thing that would normally be done is adding a diuretic. Indapamide SR 1.5 is considered the safest with Telm/Ciln and very effective, then give it a month to see how it goes.

 

[trtchin]

I just started my first blast (44M) and I also just started monitoring my BP daily just before the blast started.

Im trying to test AM and PM. Forgetting sometimes PM.

Only been testing for 2 weeks and reaults are (average);

SYS - 123
DIA - 76
RHR - 74

I do 150+ mins LISS Zone 2 cardio a week but only started getting religious about the cardio since July.

I also noticed my PM readings seem higher with SYS creeping to mid 130s.

I take general supps, fish oil, daily cialis etc, but no BP meds. From what i read these results are average not bad not great.

Should I be doing more to address this? Thank you.

 

[Lifting88]

I just started my first blast (44M) and I also just started monitoring my BP daily just before the blast started.

Im trying to test AM and PM. Forgetting sometimes PM.

Only been testing for 2 weeks and reaults are (average);

SYS - 123
DIA - 76
RHR - 74

I do 150+ mins LISS Zone 2 cardio a week but only started getting religious about the cardio since July.

I also noticed my PM readings seem higher with SYS creeping to mid 130s.

I take general supps, fish oil, daily cialis etc, but no BP meds. From what i read these results are average not bad not great.

Should I be doing more to address this? Thank you.

If it stays like this its good

When i goes over 130/135 on a blast you can add telmasartan at 40 and see from there

 

[Ghoul]

I just started my first blast (44M) and I also just started monitoring my BP daily just before the blast started.

Im trying to test AM and PM. Forgetting sometimes PM.

Only been testing for 2 weeks and reaults are (average);

SYS - 123
DIA - 76
RHR - 74

I do 150+ mins LISS Zone 2 cardio a week but only started getting religious about the cardio since July.

I also noticed my PM readings seem higher with SYS creeping to mid 130s.

I take general supps, fish oil, daily cialis etc, but no BP meds. From what i read these results are average not bad not great.

Should I be doing more to address this? Thank you.

Mid 130s is stage 1 hypertension. Since you're already doing cardio would recommend you start on Telmisartan 40.

Give it a month to stabilize. In the unlikely event you get any mild fatigue know it typically resolves within a couple of weeks.

Current guideline targets for best long term health outcomes are under 120 systolic/80 diastolic.

Would recommend staying on it consistently. A stable dose offers health benefits and even off blast Telm 40 is very unlikely to push you into hypotension since it's a low dose. BP meds have less of an impact when baseline blood pressure drops,

 

[trtchin]

If it stays like this its good

When i goes over 130/135 on a blast you can add telmasartan at 40 and see from there

Mid 130s is stage 1 hypertension. Since you're already doing cardio would recommend you start on Telmisartan 40.

Give it a month to stabilize. In the unlikely event you get any mild fatigue know it typically resolves within a couple of weeks.

Current guideline targets for best long term health outcomes are under 120 systolic/80 diastolic.

Would recommend staying on it consistently. A stable dose offers health benefits and even off blast Telm 40 is very unlikely to push you into hypotension since it's a low dose. BP meds have less of an impact when baseline blood pressure drops,

Thanks both. I live in a small country and docs here won't do shit unless numbers are way out of range. I know I can source pharma telmisartan for not too expensive I just wish I could get it free from my doctor.

Given I've only seen above 130 three times in 2 weeks and Im on week 2 of my blast I might give it a couple more weeks to see if its trending in any direction up or down.

Couple of additional questions:

- anyone have success with Natinokinase (sic?) Or is that more for hermatacrit?
- given i only introduced regular cardio since July and I was well under 100 minutes per week before that, could my cardio still improve my numbers?
- I drink a fair amount of coffee and preworkout, but I lift at lunch time and stop all caffine after lunch, could that be affecting this?
- what about sodium intake? I tend to be a bit heavy with the salt.
- what about other electrolytes? I meticulously track all macros but admittedly I dont really track electrolytes. Do use potassium salt on occasion.
- what about changing one or 2 LISS workouts for HIIT?

 

[Ghoul]

Thanks both. I live in a small country and docs here won't do shit unless numbers are way out of range. I know I can source pharma telmisartan for not too expensive I just wish I could get it free from my doctor.

Given I've only seen above 130 three times in 2 weeks and Im on week 2 of my blast I might give it a couple more weeks to see if its trending in any direction up or down.

Couple of additional questions:

- anyone have success with Natinokinase (sic?) Or is that more for hermatacrit?
- given i only introduced regular cardio since July and I was well under 100 minutes per week before that, could my cardio still improve my numbers?
- I drink a fair amount of coffee and preworkout, but I lift at lunch time and stop all caffine after lunch, could that be affecting this?
- what about sodium intake? I tend to be a bit heavy with the salt.
- what about other electrolytes? I meticulously track all macros but admittedly I dont really track electrolytes. Do use potassium salt on occasion.
- what about changing one or 2 LISS workouts for HIIT?

Yes, the cardio could still help more, caffeine boosts BP a couple of points, and the salt does as well, but neither has a really big effect.

Usually by 3 months of cardio the drop in BP will plateau.

 

[Lifting88]

The lower blood pressure goes the less BP meds have an impact, they "flatten out". So for instance if you raised telm to 80 now, you'd probobly drop only a little to around 116/58. But if on blast it rises from 120/60 to 130/70, increasing telm to 80 would have a much bigger effect, dropping you back to 120/60 again. So if you have telm 40 on hand and BP rises on blast just add it to your current protocol, then stop it when on cruise.

For your fried, the next thing that would normally be done is adding a diuretic. Indapamide SR 1.5 is considered the safest with Telm/Ciln and very effective, then give it a month to see how it goes.

What brand are you using from india

I got clinidiline from healingpharm cliniheal 10 but i read today its not a good brand

 

[Ghoul]

What brand are you using from india

I got clinidiline from healingpharm cliniheal 10 but i read today its not a good brand

I disagree on "not a good brand". There are tons of lab results showing proper dosing across many products.

There were a couple of underdosed results for Accufine, an extremely cheap drug, not exactly a target for fraud, but also very susceptible to rapid heat degradation. Some have extrapolated that isolated problem to all 800+ products Healing Pharma offers.

I have their 20mg Cilnidipine and my blood pressure responded exactly as expected.

I prefer combo pills however, and I wanted a somewhat unusual dose of Cilnidipine 20 / Telmisartan 40. The most common are Ciln 10 / Telm 40 or Ciln 10 / Telm 80.

I greatly prefer the overall "feel" of Ciln 20, so rather than Ciln 10 / Telm 80 to get to my target BP, I lowered Telm dose and increased Ciln dose.

I use Cilicar T 20/40 from JB Pharma, a "Premium" manufacturer of blood pressure meds in India. I would have gotten this from Healing if they offered it, but this was the only 20/40 combo I could find anyone had in stock. It works perfectly.