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Anabolic Steroids

4 cycles still a newbie - past experiences - advice

S

samnak

New Member
Hi everyone new here, 34 male reading forms going down rabbit holes. I've run some pretty mediocre cycles so I thought I'd try and share them to both help anyone who comes across this and get some advice along the way. So let's see if I can detail my cycles.

Keep in mind my meal prep game is generally unmatched I have a high tolerance for eating the same thing. Will try and add body weight were I can. Generally I hold weight easy and started this journey in the 17 - 20% bf range

I had a friend in a different city guiding me and let me tell you his advice was mediocre

First cycle Test Only - 2021
No Bloodwork done (mistake number one) I didn't know my base stats
Don't remember what this source was
I did 500mg test 12 weeks I saw some chest development I was doing liquid exemestane for anti estrogen but it was not an exact science
Would later learn that my body handles estrogen well so to this day I still don't know how to take my anti estrogens properly.

200LBS 5'9

2nd and 3rd Cycle 2022 - 23

This is where it gets even more unclear on what I was doing right vs wrong with varied results and my logs are a bit unclear so bare with me on that.
So during this period the friend suggested I switch insulin pins ... which from reading now is a terrible idea because because that probably mostly goes sub q instead of inter muscular. Also from further reading maybe some of it was absorbed but not as effective as it could have been. I was splitting the following totals pinning every day in upper body across 7 days. I would find out later that I was ordering from what was mostly likely an underdosed version of a popular source but since I was doing it wrong who knows but the numbers never came up when I found the official brand site over a year later.

for ease im giving you what my last pins were I worked my way up to these numbers over 12 weeks
2022: 12 weeks
  • 625 mg Test
  • 700 mg NPP
  • 200 mg Tren
between weeks 1-12 I did anavar for 4 weeks then anadrol then anavar should not have been taking orals for 12 weeks

I bulked during this period from a non lean state so truly impossible to tell what was effective
no bloodwork done so no idea what was going on strength went up but could have been from the orals
still just taking exemestane

215 LBS 5'9

2023: 12 weeks
Same source same 7 day pin same anti estro but this time between cycle I got lean and was cruising between
for ease I'll just assume what I ended on
  • 500 mg Test
  • 600 mg NPP
  • 300 mg Tren
I get down to 185lbs 5'9

So at this point im lean I think im doing things right and then I tare my labrum in a fall unrelated to lifting

2024: Im cleared to lift last October so of course I get the itch to do a cycle but this time Im doing my own research instead of just doing what im told....
I realize my source is suspect, my pinning was improper, I still have no idea how to take anti estros ive just been lucky
this time I did my base blood work but did not do anything mid cycle though. I have my 3rd trainer by this point this time he local and a new local friend who sources my gear not my trainer unfortunately.

I wanted to be careful to have my muscle outgrow my tendon so I started with just test and then added deca
500 test 20 weeks
350 mg deca for 10 weeks

During this I should have done my bloods because this is one of the first time I had insomnia but at this point I didn't use any anti estrogen because it hit me the last two weeks and then I was off cycle.

220 LBS

Ive been crusing on test and cutting since March sitting at 199 trying to drop 9 more before...

2025 Next cycle best cycle?

So im here on Meso now really trying to take in the knowledge and control over doing this right. A newer lifting friend says my lack of sides is an oddity and that my body might just handle estrogen well but ultimately effecting the total gains so im going to be good about blood before and during.

Ideas? Good readings on here? Cycle suggestions? I have a few ideas. I bulk way faster then anyone so this time Im trying to bulk super slow for much longer once Ive gotten lean. There is some pressure to figure out what im going to do because im running out of my cruising test but I could bite and just get that until I figure it all out. Hopefully this is in the right forum and someone comes across this on what not to do!
 
Stick to test only and do bloodwork every 4-6 weeks this time. Gather data on yourself. Adding compounds willy nilly just muddies the waters of your already uncertain pool. You don't know what did what to you since you didn't pull any meaningful health markers. Do you even know why you want to use the compounds you're choosing? Where are your doses coming from?

Grab a baseline before you start. After 4-6 weeks pull the same markers in a trough (have blood drawn just before your next scheduled pin). Once you have the results, compare them to your baseline and assess from there whether you should add ONE additional compound. If you pull multiple levers at a time you will never know which lever had an impact on which marker.

On the subject of pinning subQ vs. IM, unless the oil leaked out or you tried to drink it or boof it, then it was fully absorbed regardless of route. SubQ = slower absorption, IM = faster absorption. Both routes are still 100% absorption.

Good luck on doing it right this time. My $0.02.
 
adrenalytic said:
Stick to test only and do bloodwork every 4-6 weeks this time. Gather data on yourself. Adding compounds willy nilly just muddies the waters of your already uncertain pool. You don't know what did what to you since you didn't pull any meaningful health markers. Do you even know why you want to use the compounds you're choosing? Where are your doses coming from?

Grab a baseline before you start. After 4-6 weeks pull the same markers in a trough (have blood drawn just before your next scheduled pin). Once you have the results, compare them to your baseline and assess from there whether you should add ONE additional compound. If you pull multiple levers at a time you will never know which lever had an impact on which marker.

On the subject of pinning subQ vs. IM, unless the oil leaked out or you tried to drink it or boof it, then it was fully absorbed regardless of route. SubQ = slower absorption, IM = faster absorption. Both routes are still 100% absorption.

Good luck on doing it right this time. My $0.02.
Click to expand...
Absolutely from reading forum post here and elsewhere the plan is too do the bloodwork at the start and around 6 weeks. I also agree on limiting variables this time around. I guess my only thought here though is that if sub q is 100% effective and I'v taken varying things with low sides (backney and some low quality sleep toward the end) with the likelyhood that no gear I order is fully bunk, while also clearly eating enough to gain then I should be able to handle one other compound. Im understanding more what each compound does so that I can do this nice and slow. I don't want to doing these huge cuts PEDs or not they take too long for a non lean individual
 
just run a test dose, starting low (250-300), icreasing by a good bit (50mg) every 2-3 weeks for 16-24 weeks

you mentioned that you have no idea how to use AIs, this will help you figure it out. also helps you gauge your reaction to test, plus you can throw in some oral (adrol, Dbol, Var, Tbol, etc. ) towards the end, just for fun. (and to gauge reaction)

do your bloods before, during (multiple times if you do a long cycle), and after, and you should be able to gauge what test does to your body, inside and outside.
 
IndividualMan said:
just run a test dose, starting low (250-300), icreasing by a good bit (50mg) every 2-3 weeks for 16-24 weeks

you mentioned that you have no idea how to use AIs, this will help you figure it out. also helps you gauge your reaction to test, plus you can throw in some oral (adrol, Dbol, Var, Tbol, etc. ) towards the end, just for fun. (and to gauge reaction)

do your bloods before, during (multiple times if you do a long cycle), and after, and you should be able to gauge what test does to your body, inside and outside.
Click to expand...
potentially also a pretty good call since both on here and from a friend im hearing raws from china are constrained and its not like Im good at sourcing yet per the above lol
 
samnak said:
Absolutely from reading forum post here and elsewhere the plan is too do the bloodwork at the start and around 6 weeks. I also agree on limiting variables this time around. I guess my only thought here though is that if sub q is 100% effective and I'v taken varying things with low sides (backney and some low quality sleep toward the end) with the likelyhood that no gear I order is fully bunk, while also clearly eating enough to gain then I should be able to handle one other compound. Im understanding more what each compound does so that I can do this nice and slow. I don't want to doing these huge cuts PEDs or not they take too long for a non lean individual
Click to expand...

At the end of the day, test is best for a bulk. I don't think anyone here is going to argue that. Other compounds come in handy because not everyone can handle high test doses due to side effects so they supplement with other anabolics.

If trying to get stage-ready then that's different. Other compounds absolutely have their place. But for everyday gym bros, test is all you really need.

You said yourself that your body handles E2 well. Perhaps you can handle higher doses of test than most? The only way to know is to titrate up. You start low dose (300ish) and keep going until your growth stalls. Then you up the food and training. Assess your sleep quality. If all is in check and still not gaining? THEN you up the drugs.

Rinse and repeat (always doing new bloods 4-6 weeks after you alter the dose) until sides say you can't handle anymore T. Then you can play around with other compounds. At least that would seem the best way to me.

Personally, I use primo as an AI, otherwise I would do test only. Proviron maybe for SHBG to free up some test (which I've heard is not replicated on subsequent cycles so it's only really needed for a first blast then becomes obsolete. Someone correct me if this is wrong). Var is good in small bursts while cutting but will wreck your liver enzymes long term so be careful.

I get the appeal of mixing and matching other drugs but it's just so many variables. You seem to get the point and looks like you've been doing your due diligence. You recognize the error of not getting bloodwork done. As long as you maintain this diligence going forward I'm sure you'll have a successful cycle.

Happy blasting.
 
adrenalytic said:
At the end of the day, test is best for a bulk. I don't think anyone here is going to argue that. Other compounds come in handy because not everyone can handle high test doses due to side effects so they supplement with other anabolics.

If trying to get stage-ready then that's different. Other compounds absolutely have their place. But for everyday gym bros, test is all you really need.

You said yourself that your body handles E2 well. Perhaps you can handle higher doses of test than most? The only way to know is to titrate up. You start low dose (300ish) and keep going until your growth stalls. Then you up the food and training. Assess your sleep quality. If all is in check and still not gaining? THEN you up the drugs.

Rinse and repeat (always doing new bloods 4-6 weeks after you alter the dose) until sides say you can't handle anymore T. Then you can play around with other compounds. At least that would seem the best way to me.

Personally, I use primo as an AI, otherwise I would do test only. Proviron maybe for SHBG to free up some test (which I've heard is not replicated on subsequent cycles so it's only really needed for a first blast then becomes obsolete. Someone correct me if this is wrong). Var is good in small bursts while cutting but will wreck your liver enzymes long term so be careful.

I get the appeal of mixing and matching other drugs but it's just so many variables. You seem to get the point and looks like you've been doing your due diligence. You recognize the error of not getting bloodwork done. As long as you maintain this diligence going forward I'm sure you'll have a successful cycle.

Happy blasting.
Click to expand...
Have a question for you if you'd be up to DMing me!
 
You might be right about that, I guess I’ll just read post and figure out how to move out of new member status I get why it’s not automatic IMG_5722.gif
 
adrenalytic said:
Stick to test only and do bloodwork every 4-6 weeks this time. Gather data on yourself. Adding compounds willy nilly just muddies the waters of your already uncertain pool. You don't know what did what to you since you didn't pull any meaningful health markers. Do you even know why you want to use the compounds you're choosing? Where are your doses coming from?

Grab a baseline before you start. After 4-6 weeks pull the same markers in a trough (have blood drawn just before your next scheduled pin). Once you have the results, compare them to your baseline and assess from there whether you should add ONE additional compound. If you pull multiple levers at a time you will never know which lever had an impact on which marker.

On the subject of pinning subQ vs. IM, unless the oil leaked out or you tried to drink it or boof it, then it was fully absorbed regardless of route. SubQ = slower absorption, IM = faster absorption. Both routes are still 100% absorption.

Good luck on doing it right this time. My $0.02.
Click to expand...
I heard that pinning subQ is like 75% absorption. I heard it on one of the steroid podcasts. Don't remember which one. SubQ sounds so much easier than daily IM
 
Last edited:
Earthworm Jim said:
I heard that pinning subQ is like 75% absorption. I heard it on one of the steroid podcasts. Don't remember which one. SubQ sounds so much easier than daily IM
Click to expand...

I call this BS. In most cases it's the same, although we have 2 guys here having a bigger serum total testosterone with subc proven by bloodwork. I love subc, it's the easiest way of pinning. And if oil volume isn't too much there's no need of doing it every day. On my last cruise i was pinning subc 0,6 ml of test and mast 3 times a week.

And if you worry that much about absorption, start subc, wait 6 weeks and go do bloodwork to assess where you are.
 
Eddie. said:
I call this BS. In most cases it's the same, although we have 2 guys here having a bigger serum total testosterone with subc proven by bloodwork. I love subc, it's the easiest way of pinning. And if oil volume isn't too much there's no need of doing it every day. On my last cruise i was pinning subc 0,6 ml of test and mast 3 times a week.

And if you worry that much about absorption, start subc, wait 6 weeks and go do bloodwork to assess where you are.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that information.
 
adrenalytic said:
Stick to test only and do bloodwork every 4-6 weeks this time. Gather data on yourself. Adding compounds willy nilly just muddies the waters of your already uncertain pool. You don't know what did what to you since you didn't pull any meaningful health markers. Do you even know why you want to use the compounds you're choosing? Where are your doses coming from?

Grab a baseline before you start. After 4-6 weeks pull the same markers in a trough (have blood drawn just before your next scheduled pin). Once you have the results, compare them to your baseline and assess from there whether you should add ONE additional compound. If you pull multiple levers at a time you will never know which lever had an impact on which marker.

On the subject of pinning subQ vs. IM, unless the oil leaked out or you tried to drink it or boof it, then it was fully absorbed regardless of route. SubQ = slower absorption, IM = faster absorption. Both routes are still 100% absorption.

Good luck on doing it right this time. My $0.02.
Click to expand...
Cool
 
Eddie. said:
I call this BS. In most cases it's the same, although we have 2 guys here having a bigger serum total testosterone with subc proven by bloodwork. I love subc, it's the easiest way of pinning. And if oil volume isn't too much there's no need of doing it every day. On my last cruise i was pinning subc 0,6 ml of test and mast 3 times a week.

And if you worry that much about absorption, start subc, wait 6 weeks and go do bloodwork to assess where you are.
Click to expand...
Yeah I want to say I had moved to every day for 2 reasons I was on NPP which was every 3 and then I added Tren A at the end so every day was better for even intro to the blood and I was doing so much that each pin was easier spread across 7 days left and right delt, left and right pec
 
Just test. Keep it simple. If you don’t know how to manage other compounds or how to use an AI, which isn’t rocket science, just minimize the complications. Could you use other compounds? Sure. Do your goals merit it? Doesn’t seem like it, so why make it more difficult.
 
Slowww said:
Just test. Keep it simple. If you don’t know how to manage other compounds or how to use an AI, which isn’t rocket science, just minimize the complications. Could you use other compounds? Sure. Do your goals merit it? Doesn’t seem like it, so why make it more difficult.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree on keeping it simple, I think the moral of the story here is I wasn't being as active in questioning what I needed to do to be the most successful while using these compounds. I don't think it's fair to judge the goals based on this though. My training has been locked in at 5 days a week for years and my macro tracking and meal planning is dialed in so it wasn't a 19 year olds fast jump to get huge it was a 30 year old who had the other things in place already. Im cutting down another 9lbs naturally to get to 12% bf before I go at this again on a slow bulk.

All that being said I somehow handled all of those compounds ok without having really any sides which is the only reason I question adding something else to the mix for the next one.
 
samnak said:
I don't disagree on keeping it simple, I think the moral of the story here is I wasn't being as active in questioning what I needed to do to be the most successful while using these compounds. I don't think it's fair to judge the goals based on this though. My training has been locked in at 5 days a week for years and my macro tracking and meal planning is dialed in so it wasn't a 19 year olds fast jump to get huge it was a 30 year old who had the other things in place already. Im cutting down another 9lbs naturally to get to 12% bf before I go at this again on a slow bulk.

All that being said I somehow handled all of those compounds ok without having really any sides which is the only reason I question adding something else to the mix for the next one.
Click to expand...
Im not trying to be rude but you said your goal is just to put on weight. That does not require complicated protocols. You also said you bulk from 17-20% so frankly it doesn’t matter if your meal prep is locked in because your methodology has a fundamental issue that counteracts the purpose of having a strict meal plan. It’s good you’re cutting down but 12% before a bulk isn’t lean at all, or a good place to start bulking.
You can add whatever you like, bro Im not telling another grown man how to live, Im just saying based on history and the problems you have stated you had, focusing on the process, not the PEDs is likely going to be more beneficial.
Like for example— cutting to an appropriate place to bulk, understanding insulin sensitivity and metabolism, properly adjusting diet In a bulk so you get mostly muscle and not excess fat since you yourself said you bulk too fast which is an error that you want to correct. PEDS won’t correct it whether your run test eq or test deca masteron. There are lots of injectable PED combos that work, and just test alone works too. That choice isn’t where the majority of your progress or lack of it is coming from.
 
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