EQ for the first time

[Mastedon]

So I don't have a lot of history with multiple compound cycles but the little experience I have has been great.
I've ran Test 200, 250 and 300 (not very high I know, I convert E unfortunately easily) and I've also tried Primo, NPP as well as 8 weeks of Tren Ace (and TBol and Anavar).
I'm on TRT so I'm usually running 200mg of Test Cyp. I get bloodwork done both on and off cycle.
6'5" and 240lbs having cut down from 260. Not sure what body fat % is but I have visible upper abs. Not sure if that helps at all, I haven't had a recent dexa and not planning to. I've been lifting for decades, going through various phases of working out sometimes less and sometime really getting after it. In the last 5 years I've been very consistent with somewhere between 4-6 days a week.

I have not tried EQ and I have regular EQ (Bold Und) and Bold Cyp.
I have 16 weeks for a lean bulk with emphasis on the lean. I will start at only adding 300 caloric surplus and go up to 500 if I'm not adding much fat.
A few options have popped into my head:

Option A
Weeks 1-16 Test 350, EQ 350
Never done EQ so maybe best to try it on its own
(concerned about Estrogen with high test without knowing how EQ affects me)

Option B
Weeks 1-8 Test 350, EQ 350
Weeks 9-16 Test 250, NPP 150, EQ 350
EQ only at first to see how I do, then add NPP

Option C
Weeks 1-8 Test 250, NPP 150, EQ 350
Weeks 9-16 Test 250, Mast 150 EQ 350
NPP to get things going earlier, then Mast to harden/finish

An additional question would be use the EQ, the Bold Cyp or split them 50/50 so the Cyp gets on board faster?

In all these cases I'm going to have to monitor Estrogen and either add Aromasin or Primo and frankly I prefer the latter so any of these might have 100-200 Primo added unless there are other thoughts.
So I'm open to any feedback or experiences or a redesigned cycle and I appreciate any thoughts or advice in advance.

 

[RockyP]

I like option A. Simplest with the least moving parts. You shouldn’t need an AI with a 1:1 ratio of test to EQ (you might even consider starting 2:1), but you can pull bloods after 6 weeks to be sure. You can keep an AI on hand just in case but most guys run 2:1 and even then have crushed E2. Only way is to try and check bloodwork but unless you’re ready to increase the test dosage I’d try 2:1 ratio before bloodwork. Can always add more EQ. If E2 is too low you’ll have to up the test (or I guess pop some DHEA or DBol but I’d avoid that).

 

[Mastedon]

I like option A. Simplest with the least moving parts. You shouldn’t need an AI with a 1:1 ratio of test to EQ (you might even consider starting 2:1), but you can pull bloods after 6 weeks to be sure. You can keep an AI on hand just in case but most guys run 2:1 and even then have crushed E2. Only way is to try and check bloodwork but unless you’re ready to increase the test dosage I’d try 2:1 ratio before bloodwork. Can always add more EQ. If E2 is too low you’ll have to up the test (or I guess pop some DHEA or DBol but I’d avoid that).

Yep that makes a lot of sense although I must admit I have difficulty doing simple.

Another reason I sometimes don't do simple is because I can't help but think that doing lower doses of different compounds is better (1+1+1=5).
I see this "lower& more" works with both blood pressure and lipid meds but not sure if that translates to these compounds.

 

[RockyP]

Yep that makes a lot of sense although I must admit I have difficulty doing simple.

Another reason I sometimes don't do simple is because I can't help but think that doing lower doses of different compounds is better (1+1+1=5).
I see this "lower& more" works with both blood pressure and lipid meds but not sure if that translates to these compounds.

It’s a very good point. Some people need to keep test at or just above TRT levels and then start stacking anabolics. Everyone is so different but I would surmise that options B and C that include nandrolone MIGHT be more likely to increase BP, though the overall dosage is low. Lipid wise the mast would be the one to cause problems, though not sure how severe at the lower end dosages you’ve suggested. But again if you’re using 3 compounds instead of 2 and you already know what test does to your body, it’ll be hard to know what did what if the bloodwork is off. Whereas if you just did test EQ and dialed in the dosages based on E2 you would be able to figure out if the EQ caused any other issues. These dosages are on the low end but it doesn’t mean side effects are zero chance. The one thing I’d watch on test / EQ is the HCT. But lots of guys run big EQ dosages with minimal hct impact.

 

[Lilpiggy]

I like option A. Simplest with the least moving parts. You shouldn’t need an AI with a 1:1 ratio of test to EQ (you might even consider starting 2:1), but you can pull bloods after 6 weeks to be sure. You can keep an AI on hand just in case but most guys run 2:1 and even then have crushed E2. Only way is to try and check bloodwork but unless you’re ready to increase the test dosage I’d try 2:1 ratio before bloodwork. Can always add more EQ. If E2 is too low you’ll have to up the test (or I guess pop some DHEA or DBol but I’d avoid that).

Is 6 weeks the general rule while running EQ?
Edit: referring to bloodwork?

 

[Dookrich]

I was just like you and literally did the same as a first EQ cycle. Only issue I had was anxiety weeks into it. Bloods showed e2 low. Took some dbol was good to go. Up to 400 test and was fine.

 

[DaddyGoneBaddy]

Yep that makes a lot of sense although I must admit I have difficulty doing simple.

Another reason I sometimes don't do simple is because I can't help but think that doing lower doses of different compounds is better (1+1+1=5).
I see this "lower& more" works with both blood pressure and lipid meds but not sure if that translates to these compounds.

This is so me as well. Hmmm maybe I should sprinkle a little of this in too!

1 to 1 test to eq crushes my E2 unlike any other non AI compound (more than primo ever has more than mast ever has). There's plenty of anecdotal posts online (here and other decent sites) noting it's happened to others as well. My suggestion would be start at 2:1 Test to EQ since it is your first time with EQ, with 100mg of that Primo you mention as well. 350 test, 175 EQ, 100 Primo. Pull labs in 6 weeks and adjust based on those and your feels.

 

[RockyP]

This is so me as well. Hmmm maybe I should sprinkle a little of this in too!

1 to 1 test to eq crushes my E2 unlike any other non AI compound (more than primo ever has more than mast ever has). There's plenty of anecdotal posts online (here and other decent sites) noting it's happened to others as well. My suggestion would be start at 2:1 Test to EQ since your first time, with 100mg of that Primo you mentioned in as well. 350 test, 175 EQ, 100 Primo. Pull labs in 6 weeks and adjust based on those and your feels.

I might also have to give EQ another try. I needed to run primo higher than test to control E2 and it’s too damn expensive for that.

 

[DaddyGoneBaddy]

I might also have to give EQ another try. I needed to run primo higher than test to control E2 and it’s too damn expensive for that.

You are not alone I think a lot of people who have had Primo and/or Mast in their runs on the regular are turning to EQ recently as it's more available, generally priced decent or even low from some shops, and it allows to push test higher and keep E2 down w/out the need for an AI. It really is a great compound I go like a horse on EQ, play on words intended. Now I think I'm going to add some in soon lol!

 

[RockyP]

You are not alone I think a lot of people who have had Primo and/or Mast in their runs on the regular are turning to EQ recently as it's more available, generally priced decent or even low from some shops, and it allows to push test higher and keep E2 down w/out the need for an AI. It really is a great compound I go like a horse on EQ, play on words intended. Now I think I'm going to add some in soon lol!

my only concern is the blood viscosity (and any other side effects with the really long undec ester) - i finally got my H/H in the normal range on test / primo. But i'm considering it..

 

[DaddyGoneBaddy]

Any and all steroids are going to increase red blood cells and viscosity. High H & H is generally a sign of other things being off or not healthy in our lifestyles: not nearly enough balanced electrolyte included water and hydration being the biggest, poor sleep next (unchecked apnea) poor diet, unchecked high blood pressure, get those in line and you won't have high H & H anymore on any compound, of course with at least somewhat reasonable dosing and pinning protocol as well. Undec may take a bit of tweaking trial and error for some though, indeed.

 

[RockyP]

Any and all steroids are going to increase red blood cells and viscosity. High H & H is generally a sign of other things being off or not healthy in our lifestyles: not nearly enough balanced electrolyte included water and hydration being the biggest, poor sleep next (unchecked apnea) poor diet, unchecked high blood pressure, get those in line and you won't have high H & H anymore on any compound, of course with at least somewhat reasonable dosing and pinning protocol as well. Undec may take a bit of tweaking trial and error for some though, indeed.

I agree with all the points you made (as I often reference them to others looking for help with H/H). My BP is 110 / 60. I use CPAP and have for over a year. I'm always hydrated before labs. I've been in a caloric deficit on GLP-1 for 3+ months.

I will say that the labs I got 8 weeks ago i made sure to drink more than a gallon of water prior to testing and it did absolutely nothing - H/H was 17.9 / 54. What seemed to be the biggest impact for me was switching from a potent Test cream to injections. That's the only change I made, and even with adding primo and increasing my weekly total weekly dosage by 70% (from 300 test cream to 235 test E / 285 primo), my H/H normalized.

There is a fella on this board whose HCT goes to 60 on HRT, and if you look at his avatar he is peeled. There are bro's on this board whose HCT actually dropped a few points when adding EQ. The only way to know is to try and test, but my hesitancy is the long ester. I don't like experimenting with new compounds with long esters in case sides come around. I always suggest people try tren ace before enan. Mast p before enan, etc. I feel great on the primo and my labs are perfect. It's just not cheap is all.

 

[DaddyGoneBaddy]

I agree with all the points you made (as I often reference them to others looking for help with H/H). My BP is 110 / 60. I use CPAP and have for over a year. I'm always hydrated before labs. I've been in a caloric deficit on GLP-1 for 3+ months.

I will say that the labs I got 8 weeks ago i made sure to drink more than a gallon of water prior to testing and it did absolutely nothing - H/H was 17.9 / 54. What seemed to be the biggest impact for me was switching from a potent Test cream to injections. That's the only change I made, and even with adding primo and increasing my weekly total weekly dosage by 70% (from 300 test cream to 235 test E / 285 primo), my H/H normalized.

There is a fella on this board whose HCT goes to 60 on HRT, and if you look at his avatar he is peeled. There are bro's on this board whose HCT actually dropped a few points when adding EQ. The only way to know is to try and test, but my hesitancy is the long ester. I don't like experimenting with new compounds with long esters in case sides come around. I always suggest people try tren ace before enan. Mast p before enan, etc. I feel great on the primo and my labs are perfect. It's just not cheap is all.

Well said brother. At the end of the day, it really is fascinating how much each and every one of us can and does and will respond differently. Good old pin it and see method usually the only way to know.

 

[RockyP]

Well said brother. At the end of the day, it really is fascinating how much each and every one of us can and does and will respond differently. Good old pin it and see method usually the only way to know.

Absolutely - a good friend of mine just did an NPC show as a middle weight. He hopped on a very low dosage of one of those "cut blends" of 1:1:1 test / mast / tren towards the end of prep. It was a total disaster for his psyche. Luckily they were all short esters and he felt better in 5 days or so. Can't imagine if it was enan.

 

[runningthe4]

Planning something similar for my next cycle, but likely going 3:1 Test to EQ based on other reports of E2 being crushed even on a 3:2 cycle. Haven't run EQ before but on a run of Test/Deca/Mast earlier this year my HCT was still only 50. On TRT I'm at 46 so just have naturally low levels.

 

[Ateam2023]

So I don't have a lot of history with multiple compound cycles but the little experience I have has been great.
I've ran Test 200, 250 and 300 (not very high I know, I convert E unfortunately easily) and I've also tried Primo, NPP as well as 8 weeks of Tren Ace (and TBol and Anavar).
I'm on TRT so I'm usually running 200mg of Test Cyp. I get bloodwork done both on and off cycle.
6'5" and 240lbs having cut down from 260. Not sure what body fat % is but I have visible upper abs. Not sure if that helps at all, I haven't had a recent dexa and not planning to. I've been lifting for decades, going through various phases of working out sometimes less and sometime really getting after it. In the last 5 years I've been very consistent with somewhere between 4-6 days a week.

I have not tried EQ and I have regular EQ (Bold Und) and Bold Cyp.
I have 16 weeks for a lean bulk with emphasis on the lean. I will start at only adding 300 caloric surplus and go up to 500 if I'm not adding much fat.
A few options have popped into my head:

Option A
Weeks 1-16 Test 350, EQ 350
Never done EQ so maybe best to try it on its own
(concerned about Estrogen with high test without knowing how EQ affects me)

Option B
Weeks 1-8 Test 350, EQ 350
Weeks 9-16 Test 250, NPP 150, EQ 350
EQ only at first to see how I do, then add NPP

Option C
Weeks 1-8 Test 250, NPP 150, EQ 350
Weeks 9-16 Test 250, Mast 150 EQ 350
NPP to get things going earlier, then Mast to harden/finish

An additional question would be use the EQ, the Bold Cyp or split them 50/50 so the Cyp gets on board faster?

In all these cases I'm going to have to monitor Estrogen and either add Aromasin or Primo and frankly I prefer the latter so any of these might have 100-200 Primo added unless there are other thoughts.
So I'm open to any feedback or experiences or a redesigned cycle and I appreciate any thoughts or advice in advance.

Ime , 150 mg of Masterone imo is pretty much a waste of Mast, and unless your sub 12% bf , the hardening effects you speak of will be ? Negligible , but not a bad idea , just need more mg of Masterone imho

 

[Mastedon]

Ok I'm 3 weeks in and I decided to not to go up to 350 test as I originally proposed. I was running 300 test in August and I already had to take aromasin. I also decided to increase the EQ to see if I can drop the aromasin.

So I've done three weeks of 300 test and 540 EQ (weird EQ number I know its just how my 6 days a week pin schedule works for me). If I have to drop the test to 250 to control estrogen I'll do that but hopefully the 540 EQ handles that.

Not adding in any NPP or Mast at this point because I want the labs to show results of just the impact of EQ since I've never ran it before.
Not adding in anything else has been difficult because being three weeks in I'm not really feeling any different with the EQ and have been super tempted from the start to add tbol or anavar for the first 4-8 weeks but I'm holding strong lol.

 

[BigDadd7]

What did your labs look like before the eq increase?

 

[Mastedon]

@BigDadd7

Did labs at the very end of Aug.
Once for my hormone doc where I purposefully waited 4 days from last pin to show lower test (and not mess with my prescription)


but I also ran my own labs 6 days before the hormone doc ones


Let me know if you were interested in something other than test and Estradiol and I'll report back.

 

[Ateam2023]

Theres alot more to bloodwork than just hormones, lol , Its always good for you if you disclose ALL ( whatever you want ) bloodwork because eq messes with few other "health markers " you should also monitor closely, just m.o.