armburst
Member
Is this one UDCA same level as a Tudca?
I found bg has UDCA pharma grade
I found bg has UDCA pharma grade
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
The best supplements for liver to run all year round
- Thread starter armburst
- Start date
Notamemberhere
Member
I think you can do bloodwork via bloedwaardetest.nl....
armburst
Member
Right here
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bigdaddyandfriends
Member
It's the taurine salt of the same thing. TUDCA is probably more effective than its pharma counterpart though.
Do not buy the raw powder, pay extra for capsules... it's probably the the worst tasting thing I've ever tried.
My liver protection protocol is below
Oral:
TUDCA 750mg/day
NAC 900mg/day
NMN 1000mg/day
Taxifolin (dihydroquercetin) 75mg/day
Astaxanthin 12mg/day
Inj:
Glutathione 100mg M/W/F (200mg if using oral/subligual or nj 17a preworkout)
Retatrutide 1.33mg M/W/F
pewex
Member
Driada is offering 50% off Tudca this week. I've been using it, and my latest liver values are excellent. Make sure to get legit Tudca, there's a lot of fake stuff out there.
I usually trust Doublewood, but Driada seems just as good, and with the discount, it's worth trying.
armburst
Member
Why you are using so strong protocol for your liver? Thank you,bro. I will use 4 from your protocol udca,glutathione inj, tirzapatide,nac
armburst
Member
Thank you. Going to check right now
bigdaddyandfriends
Member
Because I'm old and use a lot of PEDs/supplements,most of which have to get metabolized by the liver. And being a physician I don't want to ever have liver problems! And I do enjoy using 17a AAS as androgen preworkouts, they give me some extra strength/motivation in the gym as I work out at night after a long day sitting at computers. I do not take them as part of a cycle so they're probably not so toxic, particularly using them sublingual w/DMSO or as injectables w/o guaiacol, but eventually whatever is not filtered out by the kidneys is metabolized in the liver.
From some of my other posts here, people can probably tell I use a lot of things prophylactically to prevent problems from developing, my liver protocol is no exception. I do the same for kidneys, cardiovascularsystem, and insulin resistance - can post those too if anyone is interested.
Bottom line is most medical conditions are chronic/incurable once they develop, so prevention is key. Using PEDs increases various risks so I'm overambitious on mitigating them.
I use Doublewood TUDCA btw. Easy to tell if it is real or not, open a capsule and taste the powder. If it is the most bitter and obvious tasting thing ever, it's real!
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What's your kidney protocol?
Mishka
Member
NAC - afaik.
Ateam2023
Member
hows your hgh journey going?
armburst
Member
Can I use this combo while on oral steroids? Is that true that all those supplements above can neutralize orals?
bigdaddyandfriends
Member
Sure you can use it.
Will it neutralize orals? I don't know but suppose it depends on how much and what you take. 20mg/day anavar probably, 300mg/day anadrol probably not.
Ive been trying to better understand the hepatotoxicity for 17a-alkylated oral steroids, and also (purportedly) DHB as a non-17a injectable.
There seem to be two issues that create the liver toxicity -
1. Cholestasis which is thickening of the bile, which contains all the waste products/metabolites excreted by the liver that end up in the feces. Thickening increases pressure in small intrahepatic biliary radicals and probably irritates the endothelial lining which can cause a chemical cholangitis. TUDCA is helpful here, as it increases bile production/flow.
2. Free radicals and formation of reactive oxygen species from (1) enzymatic metabolism of the drug within the hepatocytes and (2) androgenicity of the particular compound and its direct effects on hepatic cell function. Glutathionee is the ultimate aantioxidant and it can get depleted rapidly, so using glutathione and other things that restore/regenerate it (for instance NMN and NAC) are helpful, along with other potent antioxidants like astaxanthin and taxifolin.
DHB is a tough one. Chemically it is primobolan sans the c1-methyl group which in theory should not make it any more toxic - generally methylation increases toxicity But it is a considerably more potent androgen, about 4x potentially (ie 200mg DHB ~ 800mg Primo), which may explain why GGT tends to go up on it. Any probably why, despite not being inherently hepatotoxic, trenbolone at higher doses can cause more liver issues than nandrolone, basically it is nandrolone x 5 in terms of its effects, in addition to being non-aromatizable.
Other than proviron, which is really not even an anabolic steroid, Anavar is the least toxic oral - not because it is intrinsically easy on the liver but because a decent percentage of it Is filtered out by the kidneys in the urine, so doesn't have to undergo hepatic metabolism at all. The liver gets little to no assist on getting rid of the orals considered more toxic - anadrol, winstrol, halotestin, etc.
Methyltrienolone is typically considered the most toxic. Chemically it should not be any more toxic than other 17a compounds, but it is... probably because of its androgenic potency being off the chart - that's why it is used as an assay reference (A:A ratio reported up to 30000:7000). I have some as a guaiacol-free injectable and have used on occasion in 750 mcg doses as a preworkout injectable without any issue. It's basically methyltrenbolone but feels nothing like tren suspension - it does give great energy and perhaps the best pump ever. I think it's toxicity is probably a bit exaggerated but certainly not something to use on a regular basis on grow on.
armburst
Member
It's good to speak with a person who understand what he is speaking.
Mine orals composition looks like that:
Oxy 150mg a day 10 weeks
Tbol, dbol 80mg day 10 weeks
Anavar 100mg a day 10 weeks
Vinstrol 100mg a day 10 weeks
Methyl trenbolone 2mg a day 6weeks
On bridge with 500mg test I always taking 25mg a day proviron
For my is necessary to find combination for liver which I can use all year round. Also I have hepatitis B
Isn’t DHB 1-Testosterone ? Like the old school 1-AD prohormone ? I did a gnarly amount of DHB base transdermal last year with Test Base … it was awesome … just got very hyperglycemic … and I never crave sugar in general … all my bloods came back fine I was like 300mg with Iron Legion Salvo carrier … I just bought these DHB orals I’ve seen on the Chinese vendors and was hoping it would be like the 1-AD/4-AD era stuff
Photon
Member
armburst
Member
What's confusing you? I dont taking them in one cycle. Just one of them per cycle.wtf
Inject glutathione daily.
700+ mg/ml.
Ya,I have hepatits 5 years.
bigdaddyandfriends
Member
The Proviron is basically irrelevant, other than increasing free test and hence DHT conversions. I’d say estradiol conversion too but it seems to have an AI type effect at least in some so that might cancel that out. Personally I would choose masteron over Proviron it has a similar effect and is resistant to 3α-HSD, so actually builds muscle.
Re: the others even individually the doses are generally sufficient to make hepatotoxicity likely… and that’s when taken individually. I’d take at least 1gm of TUDCA daily and opt for high dose glutathione at least 1-2x per week, plus take the other things I mentioned daily. Add silymarin too, besides the beneficial liver effect it also helps keep hematocrit in check w/ Anadrol and other AAS that promote Epo, as it can help chelate iron.
I do understand the appeal of orals, for me not because of issues with needles but rather the fast action sans esters.
Have you tried no-ester non-17a injectables? Sources here have TNE w/o guaiacol (Arail), and test/tren suspension (Pharmacom). They work well for preworkout; but of course they aren’t so useful for adding mass like an oral cycle like the high doses you mentioned. Still I think you’d be better off increasing nontoxic injectable AAS (whatever ones you like, even potent ones like tren or MENT) for the gains and decreasing the oral use.
Matty_G
Member
I’m interested in your prophylactic protocols for each system
Photon
Member
I noticed there's no Halo, have u tried it?
For inj glut, I'd recommend Korea Pharma, but if you can't source it then you can consider China pharma from SSA. Honestly speaking, i'd expect a daily injection of 700mg of glut to be superior vs all liver support supplements. NAC for instance, only has ~10% oral absorption rate, and then only a small amount of that converts to glut. TUDCA should be better than UDCA.
Dutch has 70mg/ml guaiacol free TNE too, I actually find TNE to blow all orals out of the water.
