How i fucked my first cycle and second cycle plans

[NightBeast666]

so im gunna finish cutting in 2-3 weeks i ran anywhere from 200-500 test 100-250tren during the time aswell as some rad. I was really impatient i started "cycling in may" and planned 16 weeks test only but as i spent more time on forums and elsewhere looking at steroid advice I ended up bouncing my dose up and down every week or so also couldn't stick to a cut for the life of me, I would cut 10lbs then "maintain" or try to recomp cause i thought i was losing muscle and wasting my first cycle (way too much time spent online). Then i added tren, clen and t3 to speed up the process but again bounced around on both dosages and diet. Steroids really aren't magic when your cutting. (other than tren i started repping my max on 4 weeks on 200mg while in a 1000cal deficit but i couldn't sleep for shit so I had to drop it down to 75mg where i feel good). I only have 10 or so more lbs to lose and Ive started using DNP, frontloaded 400mg today and plan to keep it at 200mg for 3 weeks, 200 test + 75 tren and 50 mcg t3 and this should probably get me to 12% bodyfat.

After this It'll be mid august as i probably need to cut an extra 2 weeks after dnp to get my metabolism and thyroid function back and not relapse but after that I was planning on taking a little break getting bloods back and running a proper mass building cycle.

I know i messed up and was really stupid running tren, test, clen, dnp all in the first cycle but luckily i'm really young and bloods that I got last week weren't anything outside of the ordinary. Lipids and Liver enzymes were in check and kidney function was fine. That's all i got checked this time along w a hormone panel, kinda hard to decipher how much test was actually built up in my system at that point cuz of the switching around of the doses every week. I also think the use of some retatrutide also helped keep my health markers to the high end of normal range

I wanna avoid getting fat again during this bulk and im willing to sacrifice some muscle building potential for that, a cut that shouldve lasted 3-4months ended up being double that and i hate myself for that.


Cycle 2: 400-600 test, 200DHB, 75tren 16 weeks

Tren's just in there for nutrition partioning bcz I absolutely shit myself at the idea of gaining any extra bodyfat on this cycle. the surplus will probably only be 200-500cals. DHB is just here bcz primo and mast is impossible to get in canada other than a couple of sources w Mast P but after asking around they don't have enough for my cycle and i would hate having to pin it everyday.

What you've written is so hard to read.


So let me get it straight. You tried bulking, but you couldn't. Then you tried cutting, but you ended-up bulking.

I think the major issue you have here is the lack of patience.

Dedication, diet, exercise, rest and PEDs alltogether builds great keepable gains. And you'll realise this, it's not a question of if, but when. And just because a few early cycles haven't put your blood maekers in danger, doesn't mean that if you continue being reckless with your health, you wouldn't face severe consequences. It's for that reason that I always suggest to err on the side of safety.

The problem people have when they start to bulk at high bf%, is that they gain more fat, than if they did at low bf%.

I'd suggest that you lean out to like 10% bf before going on a bulk.

To get to 10% bf-
50% protein, 45% carbs, 5% fats.
Tren Ace 50 mgs a day. Week 1-12.
Test Prop- 10 mgs a day. Week 1-8.
Anavar- 50 mgs a day. Weeks 1-8.
Winstrol- 25 mgs a day. Week 9-12.
GH- 2 IUs on workout days, week 1-8.
Retatrutide- 5 mgs x 2 a week. Weeks 1-12.
Caloric deficit- 1000-1200.
Sauna- 20-30 minutes EOD.
No clen/dnp.

Once you get to 10% bf, take a break. Of atleast 6 weeks, where you'd only take maintenance calories and 150-200 mgs a week of Test.

Thereafter, to get on a bulk-
500 calories above maintenance.
40% protein, 50% carbs, 10% fats.
Test Enanthate- 75 mgs a day. Week 1-20.
NPP- 50 mgs a day. Weeks 1-16.
EQ- 25 mgs a day. Weeks 1-20.
GH- 4 IUs before bed on workout days. IM.

You'll grow. And you'll grow big and as much fat free as is genuinely possible.

All the best.

P.S.- Sometimes too much knowledge cripples you from walking on the path of success. Stay away from analysis paralysis.

 

[Laxman3221]

if i could get a brain scan to see if tren is genuinely fucking with it, I would but outside of insomnia and night sweats when i was running 200mg I'm devoid of any of the tren sides.

Most people have no idea that they are having psychological sides from tren. You don't need it and it should be avoided unless you are stepping on stage.

 

[smartidiot]

Most people have no idea that they are having psychological sides from tren. You don't need it and it should be avoided unless you are stepping on stage.

I'll probably drop it then, any alternative for the nutrition partioning effects it gives? I'm not gunna use insulin but thats really the main reason im even running tren cause it seems to do a good job of protecting muscle at 75mg and using it when bulking will probably help keep fat gain to a minimum even at a low dose.

 

[2ndchancesNK]

What you've written is so hard to read.


So let me get it straight. You tried bulking, but you couldn't. Then you tried cutting, but you ended-up bulking.

I think the major issue you have here is the lack of patience.

Dedication, diet, exercise, rest and PEDs alltogether builds great keepable gains. And you'll realise this, it's not a question of if, but when. And just because a few early cycles haven't put your blood maekers in danger, doesn't mean that if you continue being reckless with your health, you wouldn't face severe consequences. It's for that reason that I always suggest to err on the side of safety.

The problem people have when they start to bulk at high bf%, is that they gain more fat, than if they did at low bf%.

I'd suggest that you lean out to like 10% bf before going on a bulk.

To get to 10% bf-
50% protein, 45% carbs, 5% fats.
Tren Ace 50 mgs a day. Week 1-12.
Test Prop- 10 mgs a day. Week 1-8.
Anavar- 50 mgs a day. Weeks 1-8.
Winstrol- 25 mgs a day. Week 9-12.
GH- 2 IUs on workout days, week 1-8.
Retatrutide- 5 mgs x 2 a week. Weeks 1-12.
Caloric deficit- 1000-1200.
Sauna- 20-30 minutes EOD.
No clen/dnp.

Once you get to 10% bf, take a break. Of atleast 6 weeks, where you'd only take maintenance calories and 150-200 mgs a week of Test.

Thereafter, to get on a bulk-
500 calories above maintenance.
40% protein, 50% carbs, 10% fats.
Test Enanthate- 75 mgs a day. Week 1-20.
NPP- 50 mgs a day. Weeks 1-16.
EQ- 25 mgs a day. Weeks 1-20.
GH- 4 IUs before bed on workout days. IM.

You'll grow. And you'll grow big and as much fat free as is genuinely possible.

All the best.

P.S.- Sometimes too much knowledge cripples you from walking on the path of success. Stay away from analysis paralysis.

No man, just no. Go back and read all of the posts before making recommendations to this kid, please.

1. He’s 19 years old - doesn’t have shit for a clue what he wants based on the constant changes between cutting/bulking, and not to mention 19 year olds make retarded decisions anyways

2. He’s 158lbs at 16-18% bf — no business using gear as this is indicative of a lack of training or diet understanding, or at the minimal the ability to execute properly.

3. After stating the above, you think it’s smart he runs like 6 fucking compounds at once? He didn't even run a test cycle properly without fucking with his doses every week. You add ONE new compound per cycle to gauge side effects, and get bloodwork to find out what your bodily interaction is. Not throw 6 random ass compounds in so when he gets side effects he’s blindly guessing — which is what will happen by the way.

Fuck, this new generation of kids drives be bananas. Like let’s throw the kitchen sink in and YOLO the fuck out of a cycle and fuck ourselves up. There’s a reason we don’t let kids this age buy alcohol.

Rant/done

 

[IndividualMan]

look man, it is clear what you have to do. next cycle should be High dosed & clean, something like 500 test, 300 DHB, 100 tren, and some superdrol/anadrol.
it is necessary to take these dosages, especially at your weight. dont let anyone tell you you are built like a bitch and should just run a high dosed TRT until your brain fully develops, you are the king and now everything.

 

[readalot]

I admit it, I can't tell if this is an expert troll job. Well done.

 

[IndividualMan]

new ragebait tactic?

 

[readalot]

new ragebait tactic?

Roidragebaiting?

 

[readalot]

I think the major issue you have here is the lack of patience.

Dedication, diet, exercise, rest and PEDs alltogether builds great keepable gains. And you'll realise this, it's not a question of if, but when. And just because a few early cycles haven't put your blood maekers in danger, doesn't mean that if you continue being reckless with your health, you wouldn't face severe consequences. It's for that reason that I always suggest to err on the side of safety.

The problem people have when they start to bulk at high bf%, is that they gain more fat, than if they did at low bf%.

I'd suggest that you lean out to like 10% bf before going on a bulk.

This part was really awesome. Then you lost me on the stack for a 19 year old. If this thread was in fact genuine.

 

[smartidiot]

Again I would think about long term health. No tren. Some people who've tried it don't want anything else. I've never done tren exactly because of the psychological shit it does to both ur paranoid state(relationships) and bigorexia(visually) look.
A
I would find the highest test dose u can run before ur E2 SENSITIVE (LC/MS) blood work, goes above 30-35.
Not all brands/carrier oils are the same.

what would be an example of this like 300 test nd like 100primo, well i cant get primo right now so something more like 200 test 200EQ

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

not to mention 19 year olds make retarded decisions anyways

But they seem so confident that they know everything though

 

[hexagonal]

im 19,

Step away for half a decade. Doing it now is dumb. Wait until ~25. The risk of all sorts of unnecessary negative outcomes us higher doing this while at your age.

5'9 and 158lbs at 16-18% bf?

You've got ~130lb of LBM at 5'9. Doing steroids now is dumb. I'm not trying to be mean, but you obviously do not have your training and diet dialed in to the point that you are going to make the sort of gains that make the risks and downsides of steroids worth it. An untrained obese person on a GLP-1 that starts doing enough resistance training to preserve their muscle is going to have more LBM than you. And your BF is too high to run a cycle on top of it.

I've been lifting for 3 years but am significantly behind because my diet was super shit, i dirty bulked then did half cuts where i lost 10-20lbs but quit and went back to dirty bulking gaining it all back. I couldn't seem to stay disciplined on the cut for the last 20lbs but today is the farthest ive gotten finally seeing visible abs. I regret dirty bulking cause all it did was put on unnecessary fat and make it harder to add calories and muscle later on. I go to failure on everything and did every split from PPL to FB.

Pick a program and stick with it. Get your diet and training dialed in. Get recovery dialed in.

I know it's gunna put a bad taste in your mouth when i say this but i really wanna run a second cycle and finally be happy with my body.

The root cause here isn't your physique - it's that you're a teenager and 99% of all teenagers are insecure and unhappy with their body for one reason or another, even when there is no reason to be. You've decided you need to add more muscles. Some people decided they needed to 'looksmax.' My generation had their own shit. My parent's generation had theirs, too. This is just the nature of being young. Even if this cycle went perfectly and you hit whatever goal you had set, I can guarantee you you wouldn't be at the point where you are happy with the result, because the underlying issue isn't your physique.

But let's say I'm talking out of my ass there and that the results you want would make you happy with your body. That'd be great! But from your current starting stats, your best case scenario for a cycle are going to get you a physique that you could obtain naturally with less risk and one that would install the sort of habits you need to continue to lift weights and get results in a product and efficient manner for their rest of your life.

I think its a combination of the fact i didnt get any side affects and my bloodwork was fine that lets me be more willing to take the risk and jump into more toxic compounds this early on. I would love to hear what you suggest for a second cycle something like test + EQ was also on my mind but i figured i could build more muscle using this stack.

Why do you want to jump into more toxic compounds in the first place? These compounds have specific use cases - they're not the secret to getting big. You don't need tren and DHB. Do you even understand what the unique properties of these compounds are, why you would use them, etc.? Many pros don't use tren at all in the off season. Some don't even use it during cutting or prep.

Training has always been dialed, but my diet was always lackluster but Im finally proving to myself that I can do it and im sticking past and getting to 12% bf for sure this time I barely have 10lbs left to lose.

If your training was dialed you would have more LBM than you do. You've been in enough of a caloric surplus to be at at least 16-18% body fat (and basically everyone underestimates their bf%) while also having run a cycle and having been lifting for 3 years? I'm sorry man, but these are not the results of someone with training that has 'always been dialed.' They're not the results of someone who's training has been dialed for 6 months.

 

[hexagonal]

I'd suggest that you lean out to like 10% bf before going on a bulk.

To get to 10% bf-
50% protein, 45% carbs, 5% fats.
Tren Ace 50 mgs a day. Week 1-12.
Test Prop- 10 mgs a day. Week 1-8.
Anavar- 50 mgs a day. Weeks 1-8.
Winstrol- 25 mgs a day. Week 9-12.
GH- 2 IUs on workout days, week 1-8.
Retatrutide- 5 mgs x 2 a week. Weeks 1-12.
Caloric deficit- 1000-1200.
Sauna- 20-30 minutes EOD.
No clen/dnp.

Once you get to 10% bf, take a break. Of atleast 6 weeks, where you'd only take maintenance calories and 150-200 mgs a week of Test.

Thereafter, to get on a bulk-
500 calories above maintenance.
40% protein, 50% carbs, 10% fats.
Test Enanthate- 75 mgs a day. Week 1-20.
NPP- 50 mgs a day. Weeks 1-16.
EQ- 25 mgs a day. Weeks 1-20.
GH- 4 IUs before bed on workout days. IM.

You'll grow. And you'll grow big and as much fat free as is genuinely possible.

All the best.

P.S.- Sometimes too much knowledge cripples you from walking on the path of success. Stay away from analysis paralysis.

What in the fuck.

No. There's so much wrong, confusing, and outright bizarre here I don't even know where to start.

 

[Slowww]

Clen tren t3 dnp at 16-18% body fat while unable to adhere to a diet?
Then tren and dhb in off season for 158lbs of still fat AFTER abusing fat burners, thyroid hormones, thermogenic compounds, and still unable to do a diet. Is this rocket science: -200 calories OR +5 minutes cardio per day when weight or mirror doesn’t improve ….
Bro you are 70 pounds less than I am, and fatter, using more harmful compounds not getting results…
Your cycle doesn’t need to be considered, your entire methodology does and your clear lack of actual effort needs to be addressed.

Spoiler alert: not doing the work means you’re not gonna make any progress. Drugs don’t do the important parts for you

 

[Liter O' Test]

do 250 test until youre huge. because if you dont get a lot of progress from that dose, then you dont have your diet or training down and throwing more gear on it will just give you more sides. but you shouldnt even be touching gear since you are so young you dont even know who you are or why youre juicing and will probably not even lift when youre 30.

so stop taking gear just to try to get huge for like 3% of your life span

 

[glpfun]

Wasn’t a complete fuck up since you learned some things. People here twice your age make the same mistakes. I kind of agree you should maybe reconsider using gear at this point in your life but if you’re going to anyways stick with test only cycles, keep it low, log your food, and give it time. Only so much can be changed in a month, if you approach it like a sprint you’ll burn out.

 

[smartidiot]

Step away for half a decade. Doing it now is dumb. Wait until ~25. The risk of all sorts of unnecessary negative outcomes us higher doing this while at your age.


You've got ~130lb of LBM at 5'9. Doing steroids now is dumb. I'm not trying to be mean, but you obviously do not have your training and diet dialed in to the point that you are going to make the sort of gains that make the risks and downsides of steroids worth it. An untrained obese person on a GLP-1 that starts doing enough resistance training to preserve their muscle is going to have more LBM than you. And your BF is too high to run a cycle on top of it.


Pick a program and stick with it. Get your diet and training dialed in. Get recovery dialed in.

The root cause here isn't your physique - it's that you're a teenager and 99% of all teenagers are insecure and unhappy with their body for one reason or another, even when there is no reason to be. You've decided you need to add more muscles. Some people decided they needed to 'looksmax.' My generation had their own shit. My parent's generation had theirs, too. This is just the nature of being young. Even if this cycle went perfectly and you hit whatever goal you had set, I can guarantee you you wouldn't be at the point where you are happy with the result, because the underlying issue isn't your physique.

But let's say I'm talking out of my ass there and that the results you want would make you happy with your body. That'd be great! But from your current starting stats, your best case scenario for a cycle are going to get you a physique that you could obtain naturally with less risk and one that would install the sort of habits you need to continue to lift weights and get results in a product and efficient manner for their rest of your life.


Why do you want to jump into more toxic compounds in the first place? These compounds have specific use cases - they're not the secret to getting big. You don't need tren and DHB. Do you even understand what the unique properties of these compounds are, why you would use them, etc.? Many pros don't use tren at all in the off season. Some don't even use it during cutting or prep.

If your training was dialed you would have more LBM than you do. You've been in enough of a caloric surplus to be at at least 16-18% body fat (and basically everyone underestimates their bf%) while also having run a cycle and having been lifting for 3 years? I'm sorry man, but these are not the results of someone with training that has 'always been dialed.' They're not the results of someone who's training has been dialed for 6 months.

wow that kinda shit my bed, gunna have to disagree since i benched 275 for 3 last week during my cut with 130lbs of LBM. I think the lack of LBM comes down to a chronic skipping of leg day, Last time i squated i got 155 for 10 on a smith and that was an year ago and your lower body make 2/3 of ur body's LBM and they are still untrained, it might give the illusion of a beginner. Unless you can find me some1 who even has a 2plate bench at 6 months in the gym or ill be even more generous find a fat guy thats lost weight/recomped over the course of 1-1.5 years that can bench 2 plates and ill personally suck ur dick. not sure if it's cause this is a body building forum but walking into a commercial gym im usually the biggest dude nowadays at 130lbs of LBM and 15 bodyfat. U also say i underestimate my bodyfat sure a lot of people do but I got a dexa and it said 13% but i added an extra 3-5% on top of that to make you guys as happy as possible. Training is pretty simple ive been training hard ever since i started im fine with you telling me my diet is shit or my use of gear is retarded because I owned up and understood before even posting that both of those statements are true but I trained hard from day 1 going to failure and beyond every single set and I won't let you take the effort i put in there away from me. Also not everyone wants to be 250lbs at 5'9 6% bodyfat mr olympia. Even the "bigger" guys who dont compete are 6'4 235 9% after a decade of training and gear (dtren/dawson) if you paste those stats onto a 5'9 human im doing pretty decent considering I have very litte lower body mass.

 

[smartidiot]

Wasn’t a complete fuck up since you learned some things. People here twice your age make the same mistakes. I kind of agree you should maybe reconsider using gear at this point in your life but if you’re going to anyways stick with test only cycles, keep it low, log your food, and give it time. Only so much can be changed in a month, if you approach it like a sprint you’ll burn out.

what do you suggest for cycles, 500 test where would you cap it at? I understand you can reuse cycles so I don't need to increase doses if i decide to keep doing it but where would your upper limit be?

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

wow that kinda shit my bed, gunna have to disagree since i benched 275 for 3 last week during my cut with 130lbs of LBM. I think the lack of LBM comes down to a chronic skipping of leg day, Last time i squated i got 155 for 10 on a smith and that was an year ago and your lower body make 2/3 of ur body's LBM and they are still untrained, it might give the illusion of a beginner. Unless you can find me some1 who even has a 2plate bench at 6 months in the gym or ill be even more generous find a fat guy thats lost weight/recomped over the course of 1-1.5 years that can bench 2 plates and ill personally suck ur dick. not sure if it's cause this is a body building forum but walking into a commercial gym im usually the biggest dude nowadays at 130lbs of LBM and 15 bodyfat. U also say i underestimate my bodyfat sure a lot of people do but I got a dexa and it said 13% but i added an extra 3-5% on top of that to make you guys as happy as possible. Training is pretty simple ive been training hard ever since i started im fine with you telling me my diet is shit or my use of gear is retarded because I owned up and understood before even posting that both of those statements are true but I trained hard from day 1 going to failure and beyond every single set and I won't let you take the effort i put in there away from me. Also not everyone wants to be 250lbs at 5'9 6% bodyfat mr olympia. Even the "bigger" guys who dont compete are 6'4 235 9% after a decade of training and gear (dtren/dawson) if you paste those stats onto a 5'9 human im doing pretty decent considering I have very litte lower body mass.

Considering you are bragging about squatting on the smith machine, I am assuming you benched on it too.

But keep coping with your poor decisions. you still don't seem like you know what you are doing.


But what the fuck do I know? These sub 22 year old kids know everything.

 

[smartidiot]

Clen tren t3 dnp at 16-18% body fat while unable to adhere to a diet?
Then tren and dhb in off season for 158lbs of still fat AFTER abusing fat burners, thyroid hormones, thermogenic compounds, and still unable to do a diet. Is this rocket science: -200 calories OR +5 minutes cardio per day when weight or mirror doesn’t improve ….
Bro you are 70 pounds less than I am, and fatter, using more harmful compounds not getting results…
Your cycle doesn’t need to be considered, your entire methodology does and your clear lack of actual effort needs to be addressed.

Spoiler alert: not doing the work means you’re not gonna make any progress. Drugs don’t do the important parts for you

thanks for the advice just wanted to lose the weight as soon as possible because i started struggling w body image after being in the gym for 3 years and still looking like shit. I don't think its fair to compare yourself to a teenager who admits he has had no idea what he's been doing for his whole time in the gym, and i assume you've also run some cycles yourself. Tryna toot ur horn but the comparison is kinda redundant, kinda just seems like ur tryna put me down. Also i said i was going to get to 12% before bulking. Im on a 1000-1500 cal deficiet rn and will probably only needa keep this up for 1-2 weeks cause my dnp and t3 finally came in along with my glp-1 so i might add some fasting aswell. As you said these drugs aren't magic just cause i've used dnp for 2 days and tren for 4 weeks doesn't mean my physique is gunna transform into mr olympia, you understand it takes time but still shit on me when i'm in the middle of the process.