Time to say goodbye friends

[4Drago]

At 54, for me, I decided two years ago to make what you've outlined as your goal my goal. For some, and I'm one of them, you eventually have to adjust your goals. For 3 and a half decades for me it was grow, grow and be the biggest M'fer in the room. Now I've completely reversed my mindset and envision myself as lean and mean.

Over the past two years I've gone from 248 to 213. I actually am enjoying it. It's a new goal to strive for, which is the most important part for me.

We have a lot in common. I too have been at it for over 3 1/2 decades. There was a 15 year break from gear in there as well. 220 lbs will be the easy part. 10% bf will take just a little discipline.

 

[4Drago]

You mean something like a heart selective beta blocker? Or just taking stress off the heart by weighing less?


But I'm assuming a stiff plaque filled heart can't really be fixed as plaque reversal is extremely rare, right?

(I have no heart problems, just genuinely curious)

It's a complete reversal. I have no plaque buildup issues. They did a procedure where they threaded a camera up one of my arm veins into my heart. All clear and gtg.
Metoprolol 50mg and sacubitril 49mg/valsartan 51mg.

 

[4Drago]

I think Nebi as Beta blocker might be more effective, seen case 5-10mg very run. Also Injectable Carnitine is suggest to be of help for LVH + high doses of Ubiquinol

Spironolactone is the one (I think) that acts like a testosterone blocker by competing with the receptor sites. This is the one I refused to take. I'm very glad I made this choice or I'd probably have bitch tits and zero muscle left.

 

[4Drago]

For me, it's entresto, metropolol, and spironolactone. Brought me from low 30s to high 40s.

I did all this except the spironolactone due to it competing with the testosterone receptor sites. It's basically an anti-androgen.

 

[Ghoul]

I would theorise that minus meds, the mechanical action of staying away from the gym and not forcing the heart to do extra work. plus the drop in weight will cause some improvement.

I'm sure lower weight and bp are the main things that stopped progression of damage.

But reversing damage is much more about the meds.

Sacubutril/Valsartan blocks neprilysin and boosts MMP enzymes.

Neprilysin destroys natural peptides that inhibit heart stiffening fibrotic scar tissue formation.

By blocking neprilysin, those peptides stop fibrosis from progressing, and MMP enzymes go to work breaking down fibrotic scar tissue, making the walls of the heart soft and pliable again restoring function.

So that's a huge help, and wouldn't happen without the drugs.

 

[4Drago]

I would theorise that minus meds, the mechanical action of staying away from the gym and not forcing the heart to do extra work. plus the drop in weight will cause some improvement.

It's only light weight now bud. It won't take much to maintain 220 lbs and now almost no chance of injury.

 

[explodingHeart]

I'm sure lower weight and bp are the main things that stopped progression of damage.

But reversing damage is much more about the meds.

Sacubutril/Valsartan blocks neprilysin and boosts MMP enzymes.

Neprilysin destroys natural peptides that inhibit heart stiffening fibrotic scar tissue formation.

By blocking neprilysin, those peptides stop fibrosis from progressing, and MMP enzymes go to work breaking down fibrotic scar tissue, making the walls of the heart soft and pliable again restoring function.

So that's a huge help, and wouldn't happen without the drugs.

It's a complete reversal. I have no plaque buildup issues. They did a procedure where they threaded a camera up one of my arm veins into my heart. All clear and gtg.
Metoprolol 50mg and sacubitril 49mg/valsartan 51mg.

Complete reversal in only a few months?

So what now? You're okay to blast a little more gear if you want?

What was the cause originally? Too big, too high BP and too much gear?

 

[4Drago]

Complete reversal in only a few months?

So what now? You're okay to blast a little more gear if you want?

What was the cause originally? Too big, too high BP and too much gear?

Yes, complete reversal in 7 months.

200mg test and 125mg masteron isn't quite what I'd call a heavy cycle. Masteron is very mild and will be used mainly to counter act any estrogen sides.

I've had a long discussion with my sister who has the same heart issue. She will be talking with her doc. Its more then likely genetic. I'm also pretty sure that high doses of gear won't be helping at my age.

Thank you for caring so much... but I got this under control. If for some reason going from 100mg of test to 200mg causes issues I'll be in the know.

 

[explodingHeart]

Yes, complete reversal in 7 months.

200mg test and 125mg masteron isn't quite what I'd call a heavy cycle. Masteron is very mild and will be used mainly to counter act any estrogen sides.

I've had a long discussion with my sister who has the same heart issue. She will be talking with her doc. Its more then likely genetic. I'm also pretty sure that high doses of gear won't be helping at my age.

Thank you for caring so much... but I got this under control. If for some reason going from 100mg of test to 200mg causes issues I'll be in the know.

What exactly caused it? Gear? Overall weight/size? Hard frequent lifting to failure?

Let's be honest. Everyone of us is looking for an excuse to run high gear in our old age.

 

[4Drago]

What exactly caused it? Gear? Overall weight/size? Hard frequent lifting to failure?

Let's be honest. Everyone of us is looking for an excuse to run high gear in our old age.

Dude. Can you NOT read? I've answered you... its genetic. Are you a troll or a bot?
Where the crap do you keep coming up with HIGH gear? Just read buddy!

 

[explodingHeart]

Dude. Can you NOT read? I've answered you... its genetic. Are you a troll or a bot?
Where the crap do you keep coming up with HIGH gear? Just read buddy!

It's quite simple. I want to believe gear had nothing to do with it and confirm it so I can justify my own reasons of using gear past 40.

And being brutally honest with myself, I was probably going to do it (blast gear again at 40) anyway.


Anyway, my bad.

 

[4Drago]

It's quite simple. I want to believe gear had nothing to do with it and confirm it so I can justify my own reasons of using gear past 40.

And being brutally honest with myself, I was probably going to do it (blast gear again at 40) anyway.


Anyway, my bad.

Well, I can't help you there. That's something you're gonna have to come to terms with on your own. My heart defect is genetic, but I'd have to be ignorant to think my gear use didn't help it along. At a minimum it didn't help.
I never even knew I had an issue until my 50s.

I did gear for about 4 years then joined the military at 26. I took the next 15 years off of gear and was able to easily maintain 220lbs 15 % bf which is actually considered athletic and I had a good six pack. I started back on gear in 2015. So the majority of my cycles where when I was in my 40s. I got up to 257 lbs and looked like my avatar pic... best shape of my life. I never really worried about being crazy lean. Now I get to give it a shot and stay between 215-220 lbs. I'm older now so low dose peds should be no problem at getting me to my goal.
My genetic max potential is 220 lbs at 15 % bf gear free. Let's see what a mild blast can do. Should be able to hit at least 215 10%.
.

 

[bigdaddyandfriends]

What exactly caused it? Gear? Overall weight/size? Hard frequent lifting to failure?

Let's be honest. Everyone of us is looking for an excuse to run high gear in our old age.

Likely multifactorial with genetic predisposition, androgens, high body weight and blood volume (muscle more taxing on CVS than fat in this case), and T2DM = hyperinsulinemia.

Great that it reversed so quickly, although as a doc it makes me question the initial diagnosis and echo interpretation.

Spironolactone is a potassium sparing diuretic and has some anti-androgen effects. Not sure how significant the latter would be with TRT/gear use when androgen levels are already supraphysiologic. Spironolactone has activity at the AR, also can decrease natural testosterone production and acts as a 5a-reductase inhibitor too, so it cuts a broad swath. My wife takes a very low daily dose, which keeps her skin perfect.

I would inquire about into adding an SGLT2 inhibitor to your regimen, they have cardiac and renal protective effects - particularly since they were developed to treat a condition you already have eg T2DM. I use a low daily dose of empoglaflozin/Jardiance myself as a non-diabetic to help protect the heart and kidneys. My 82 yr old father has low grade chronic renal disease and elevated hA1C, and I finally got his doctor to give him a trial of Farxiga.

 

[oldmanwilliams]

The before and after echocardiogram results would be helpful here.

Can you provide any more about sister's diagnosis and her overall health condition? How is her personality? Did she take the vaccines? Your heart condition is unlikely to be genetic. The heart is constantly remodeling itself. It's not rare to have an enlarged left ventricle and reduced ejection fraction. Yes it is alarming but it happens. Most people are never diagnosed. Your recovery in 7 months is very impressive. If your condition was "genetic" then it likely would not be regressing like that. I wouldn't ever call it genetic unless you have some very specific testing done that suggests that but even that is inaccurate at this stage. You can't just assume it is genetic, even if your sister has it too, because everyone can grow and shrink their heart, especially the left ventricle. Sounds like you're a vaccine injury combined with the stress of everything else. You probably have some fibrosis even if your heart has improved. You need to be taking it easy now. Give yourself more time.

 

[4Drago]

The before and after echocardiogram results would be helpful here.

Can you provide any more about sister's diagnosis and her overall health condition? How is her personality? Did she take the vaccines? Your heart condition is unlikely to be genetic. The heart is constantly remodeling itself. It's not rare to have an enlarged left ventricle and reduced ejection fraction. Yes it is alarming but it happens. Most people are never diagnosed. Your recovery in 7 months is very impressive. If your condition was "genetic" then it likely would not be regressing like that. I wouldn't ever call it genetic unless you have some very specific testing done that suggests that but even that is inaccurate at this stage. You can't just assume it is genetic, even if your sister has it too, because everyone can grow and shrink their heart, especially the left ventricle. Sounds like you're a vaccine injury combined with the stress of everything else. You probably have some fibrosis even if your heart has improved. You need to be taking it easy now. Give yourself more time.

I'm not gonna dive into my sisters medical history. But, ya we both took the covid vaccines.

 

[malfeasance]

I'm not gonna dive into my sisters medical history. But, ya we both took the covid vaccines.

You are in your fifties, life more than half over, and you weighed 257 pounds at only 5'9" and were taking steroids.

An enlarged left ventricle has zero to do with "covid vaccines."

 

[malfeasance]

Ok, well either a miracle has happened or the VA docs are complete idiots. I decided to go with a cardiologist outside the VA for treatment.
I have completely recovered! My hearts left ventricle is no longer enlarged! My hearts ejection fraction has gone from 34% to 56-60%, which is better than average for my age.
So I've been completely out of the gym for 7 months... no training at all! I've been on 100mg of sustanon every 10 days.
I decided to take advantage and lean up a bit. I currently weigh 215-220lbs... depends on the day. Bf % has dropped to about 12% without trying.
I'm gonna start back at the gym soon. My new cycle will be 200mg sustanon 125mg masteron enanthate per week. I will NOT be going over this dose. I will do this for a max of 20 weeks per year, then back to 100mg sustanon every 10 days.
I'm diabetic and also have a neurological disorder, so I still suffer from nerve damage in my belly. So even with a reduced waist size I still have slight turtle shell abs. I guess I need to just be thankful for a man in his 50s.
I believe 220lbs ripped is a new goal. No more being 257 lbs at 5'9" anymore. But thats ok. I built a good base before ever using gear and muscle memory is a beautiful thing.
LOOKS LIKE IM BACK...JUST GONNA BE A LIGHTER ME.
It's time to get some glycogen back into these flat muscles. Then I can't wait for that semi-pump one carries when their muscle groups are in a constant state of repair and full! For me that means, in 6 weeks, I'll add at least 7 lbs of much needed water in these muscles, then drop down to at least 10% bf. 215-220lbs 10% bf at 5'9" will come quickly... yes!

And you are doing what you need to do to control things.

Good job, and keep your health a priority.

 

[4Drago]

The before and after echocardiogram results would be helpful here.

Can you provide any more about sister's diagnosis and her overall health condition? How is her personality? Did she take the vaccines? Your heart condition is unlikely to be genetic. The heart is constantly remodeling itself. It's not rare to have an enlarged left ventricle and reduced ejection fraction. Yes it is alarming but it happens. Most people are never diagnosed. Your recovery in 7 months is very impressive. If your condition was "genetic" then it likely would not be regressing like that. I wouldn't ever call it genetic unless you have some very specific testing done that suggests that but even that is inaccurate at this stage. You can't just assume it is genetic, even if your sister has it too, because everyone can grow and shrink their heart, especially the left ventricle. Sounds like you're a vaccine injury combined with the stress of everything else. You probably have some fibrosis even if your heart has improved. You need to be taking it easy now. Give yourself more time.

I will definitely be taking it easy. 220 lbs is VERY easy for me to maintain on very low doses. All I need to do is light weight high reps and I'll maintain 220 lbs with ease. This is the benefit of having a solid base well before ever touching gear. I only need to train 2x a week if I want to maintain that semi-pump with full muscles.
Genetically my legs, calves, and back just are always there. All I need to focus on is upper body and some calve stretching. No leg training required.

 

[BigDadd7]

I will definitely be taking it easy. 220 lbs is VERY easy for me to maintain on very low doses. All I need to do is light weight high reps and I'll maintain 220 lbs with ease. This is the benefit of having a solid base well before ever touching gear. I only need to train 2x a week if I want to maintain that semi-pump with full muscles.
Genetically my legs, calves, and back just are always there. All I need to focus on is upper body and some calve stretching. No leg training required.

I hate you for those leg genetics. Just saying.

 

[4Drago]

I hate you for those leg genetics. Just saying.

I know it sounds silly, but when I train arms my calves grow, and when I train chest my back grows too. I did hit legs pretty hard when I was younger. Calves just kinda appeared around 23ish.