Why 250mg/week of Testosterone is the best first cycle ever

[glpfun]

Exactly, I guess some people misread it as the best cycle and skipped the first cycle part.

Nobody missed that part, the cycle with the least sides is the best first cycle and mast plus test has less sides than just test

 

[grey]

Why recommend dose (mg) instead of ng/dl?:

While, I fully agree that ng/dl is far more important along with FT measurement. However we have to start somewhere dosage wise. A beginner does not have the experience required to know this yet.

Concur... getting even experienced users to do one bloodwork set in an initial 6 weeks is hard enough... few, if any, are going to be doing repeated tests ever 4 half lives to perfectly titrate their dosing.

And why would they? Spend $100 on bloodwork to save $4 a week by moving from 300mg/week to 267.13mg/week makes no damn sense.

 

[BabaJagga]

Concur... getting even experienced users to do one bloodwork set in an initial 6 weeks is hard enough... few, if any, are going to be doing repeated tests ever 4 half lives to perfectly titrate their dosing.

And why would they? Spend $100 on bloodwork to save $4 a week by moving from 300mg/week to 267.13mg/week makes no damn sense.

its weird that it cost so much in US.
to test testosterone & estrogen levels alone cost 15€ in here. any hormone is 7,5€ basicly.

 

[grey]

to test testosterone & estrogen levels alone cost 15€ in here. any hormone is 7,5€ basicly.

Several US states don't allow personal testing at all without a doctor's visit and a collection order either.

$100 is very much the middle ground for testing expenses here. Some states are much higher, others considerably lower.

 

[BabaJagga]

Several US states don't allow personal testing at all without a doctor's visit and a collection order either.

$100 is very much the middle ground for testing expenses here. Some states are much higher, others considerably lower.

interesting. and for that 100$ you have what included ussually? or just test & esteogen? or with lipids, blood panel etc?

in here, i walk to lab, tell them im paying and they hand me big A4 paper and i check boxes what i wanna get tested one by one.

invoice & results via mail.

 

[grey]

interesting. and for that 100$ you have what included ussually? or just test & esteogen? or with lipids, blood panel etc?

Depends... It is usually an abbreviated hormone panel with a few things tacked on (RBC/Hematocrit etc).

If I go through a private testing company to get the collection order I can just get the TT, FT, and E2 for less.

The phlebotomists here in my state don't do draws without a Collection Order.

 

[BabaJagga]

Depends... It is usually an abbreviated hormone panel with a few things tacked on (RBC/Hematocrit etc).

If I go through a private testing company to get the collection order I can just get the TT, FT, and E2 for less.

The phlebotomists here in my state don't do draws without a Collection Order.

interesting how different our systems are.
im glad that i can test whatever and just optimalize.

i will draw blood on first week of june but for example i dont need testosterone. so only estrogen to see where im and lipids, blood panel to see if im good to continue. will be under 30€ i think.

 

[Tr3nbal0n3]

Nobody missed that part, the cycle with the least sides is the best first cycle and mast plus test has less sides than just test

Test + Masteron has fewer side effects than testosterone alone??? Masteron will obliterate your hairline just to build less muscle than testosterone only.

 

[bananafeet]

Test + Masteron has fewer side effects than testosterone alone??? Masteron will obliterate your hairline just to build less muscle than testosterone only.

Is that the action of masteron or is that because masteron lowers SHBG allowing for more production of DHT from testosterone?

 

[canes]

Agreed. Unfortunately, everyone is in a hurry, so they crank up the dosages instead of taking the time to let their body maximize gains from just 250 mg.
To be completely honest, the average Joe who isn’t stepping on stage and just wants to look good can build a phenomenal physique on as little as 200 mg per week. There’s really no need to ever go beyond 350 mg for those people who aren’t stepping on stage. Test and maybe some low dose GH is all that’s needed.

Trt and 2iu has been great for me at first.

 

[glpfun]

Test + Masteron has fewer side effects than testosterone alone??? Masteron will obliterate your hairline just to build less muscle than testosterone only.

Mast doesn’t obliterate hairline, my hair is proof, another myth, it has less side effects because it regulates mood and competes with e2 for receptor binding which reduces chances of gyno and swelling, gives more breathing room for e2 mistakes even though it doesn’t lower systemic e2

 

[wldb33rz]

As a newbie and having been reading boards like this for years, I do have to say I agree with the first post.

First, for newbies it simplifies things. No trying to figure out things too much, it's just simple, 1ml divide that up however you wish.

Second, while I may be new to AAS, i'm not new to drugs. First time users do not need as much to achieve desired effects. Exposure to any drug is always best done at a lower dose and titrate up as needed. Introducing a massive dose like going from natty to 500mg/week is almost guaranteed to bring on the worst side effects.

Second, if you're coming from natty, you really dont know how you respond. So bloodwork and such will be necessary to determine how you're responding. This is specifically for those complaining that 300mg barely gets them to high end normal ranges. You didnt know that before you hopped on, and you wont fully *know* that until you see your bloodwork to see how you're responding. Those complaining of costs check algodx. Testosterone tests for $13, Total and Free test for $29. Want a full hormone panel that would still be closer to $200, but you dont need that at first, just to check your testosterone levels. Just need access to a Labcorp lab. They've been sponsoring a few YT videos and I saw ad reads for them and checked them out. No excuse to not monitor how you're doing, most especially when doing this for your first time. Once you get the experience you can do these less frequently.

It seems like a very common theme in looking over people's experiences and recommendations is a recommendation to start lower. Even in this very thread people mention that while arguing higher is better. Get used to things, use your first cycle to it's potential and realize that future cycles you *will* need more. Why burn that by jumping to 500mg in the first go round? That's an excellent way to find out what the nasty sides are; go to the extremes right off the bat.

Too many of you arguing against this stated that you had the worst side effects in your first cycle and afterwards you could do more with no sides - which goes to prove the very point - let your body adapt and get used to higher amounts in your system so that when you do need more to get the effects you're looking for you will still have to deal with less sides.

 

[BabaJagga]

Second, if you're coming from natty, you really dont know how to you respond. So bloodwork and such will be necessary to determine how you're responding. This is specifically for those complaining that 300mg barely gets them to high end normal ranges. You didnt know that before you hopped on, and you wont fully *know* that until you see your bloodwork to see how you're responding. Those complaining of costs check algodx. Testosterone tests for $13, Total and Free test for $29. Want a full hormone panel that would still be closer to $200, but you dont need that at first, just to check your testosterone levels. Just need access to a Labcorp lab. They've been spornsoring a few videos and I saw ad reads for them and checked them out. No excuse to not monitor how you're doing most especially when doing this for your first time. Once you get the experience you can do these less frequently.

thats why i started at 300, waited couple of weeks, did bloods and raised to 500. no big sides except few pimples on shoulders/chest and stupid libido.

complete hormonal panel is under 50€, i paid 150€ for hormones, complete lipids, thyroid, kidneys, igf1 and some other bits.

from fellow drug user to another... i was always curious what "big dose" would do. with every drug.
if x amount does this, okay, thats nice. i should probably stay there. but no, i was always curious what xxxxx will do. i guess thats my weak point.

 

[wldb33rz]

from fellow drug user to another... i was always curious what "big dose" would do. with every drug.
if x amount does this, okay, thats nice. i should probably stay there. but no, i was always curious what xxxxx will do. i guess thats my weak point.

This is more common and more up to the individual. However, the recommendation you would share to others might not be what you would do for yourself - especially if you care about the other person you're giving advice to.

 

[BabaJagga]

This is more common and more up to the individual. However, the recommendation you would share to others might not be what you would do for yourself - especially if you care about the other person you're giving advice to.

yes thats true. im experiment by myself on myself basicly. but i dont wanna go into more toxic compounds like nandrolone, tren, harsh orals. i will stay with test and dht derivates only. with bloodwork and support meds i can hopefully minimalize damage done in long run. will see

 

[Ricky93]

I really like this post. The most I've done was 210mg a week and saw great gains. Tons of acne because I didn't know how to control estrogen. I'm more of a TRT guy. My test was at 300ng/dl. I felt little motivation to progress and sold myself short.
"Low" test only cycles are great just to see how you react, get bloodwork, deploy ancilaries.
Right now I'm trying to find my perfect dose without anything else, using enanthate ester and will be switching to undecanoate for a true TRT. Once I have everything in line I can just add whatever ester/steroid/ancilaries I feel.
Lots of people rush into crazy cycles, even combining Tren, liver toxic orals and more, get tons of side effects, quit all because they weren't patient or smart enough to respect hormones.

 

[dinfar1337]

I really like this post. The most I've done was 210mg a week and saw great gains. Tons of acne because I didn't know how to control estrogen. I'm more of a TRT guy. My test was at 300ng/dl. I felt little motivation to progress and sold myself short.

what is your testosterone and estrogen at 210mg?

i run my trt at 200mg to calm down after a cycle im thinking of upping it

 

[Ricky93]

what is your testosterone and estrogen at 210mg?

i run my trt at 200mg to calm down after a cycle im thinking of upping it

Didn't get total T but estrogen was 50. It's safe to assume my test levels were suprapsychological since I'm actually pretty lean for an E2 that high.

 

[KingGor5000]

I disagree only on the standpoint is that your first cycle is a critical learning opportunity, most importantly to gauge an individuals propensity towards aromatization and AI response.
You WANT to run into some estrogenic sides so that you can learn how your body and bloodwork responds at particular dosages of test, with estrogen managed on a particular dosage of AI.

250mg will be side effect free for 99.99% of healthy males, and you will make progress over being natural, but it doesnt teach you anything at all.
when its time to scale dosage up, its essentially a first cycle all over again because you wont have the requisite knowledge or experience from a 350 only first cycle.

for me, 400mg has been the sweet spot ive seen with my own clients going from natural>enhanced where its an effective dose to progress very well, and enough to give us a good look at whats going on with estrogen, without running the risk of spiking out of control for most people.

Is it worth while to see how you'd respond to a lower dose at first? Then gradually titrate upward? Or are you saying straight to 400 usually works out for most men?

 

[Anonymous member 154437]

250 test is not a cycle thats barely over trt