Non-aromatising substitute for testosterone

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

I have had enough of fighting aromatisation. Any dose of testosterone I take requires a big dose of an aromatase inhibitor. And my e2 fluctuates so massively between blood tests that I have no idea where my e2 actually is.

300mg of TE per week with 3.5mg of anastrozole per week puts my e2 at somewhere between 20 and 130pg/ml, depending on the day. All variables are controlled as best as possible before testing.

I feel my best at around 220mg TE per week, but with my e2 fluctuating so much, I can’t tell if any symptoms are due to high or low e2.

I am considering lowering my testosterone to the point where an AI isn’t needed. But I then lose the therapeutic effect of the testosterone.

For quality of life purposes, which compound is the best non-aromatising substitute for testosterone?

 

[2lanes]

take a short ester and aromasin daily

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

take a short ester and aromasin daily

Would a short ester make any difference? Prior to the blood tests I was dosing the testosterone enanthate daily subq to ensure the steadiest serum levels.

Assuming 1mg anastrozole is similarly suppressive of estrogen as 25mg of exemestane, then exemestane was actually less effective at lowering my e2 than anastrozole.

 

[2lanes]

Would a short ester make any difference?

yes, just try it
long esters are shit if you have high estrogen problems
anastrozole is shit too

 

[joemidlife]

Dropped the AI altogether and switched to low-dose DHT derivatives. Masteron worked decently for mood and energy, but what really helped was trying out low-dose primo.

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

Dropped the AI altogether and switched to low-dose DHT derivatives. Masteron worked decently for mood and energy, but what really helped was trying out low-dose primo.

Yeah I was thinking masteron or primo. Am I right in saying they’re fairly interchangeable, except that mast is slightly more androgenic, primo is slightly more anabolic, and primo is a mild AI?

 

[2lanes]

Yeah I was thinking masteron or primo. Am I right in saying they’re fairly interchangeable, except that mast is slightly more androgenic, primo is slightly more anabolic, and primo is a mild AI?

trying to control estrogen with mast or primo is a really stupid idea

 

[dinfar1337]

Yeah I was thinking masteron or primo. Am I right in saying they’re fairly interchangeable, except that mast is slightly more androgenic, primo is slightly more anabolic, and primo is a mild AI?

thinking primo is mild will crash your estrogen

 

[IndividualMan]

Maybe try adding some Boldenone, easier to get than primo/mast atm. plus E2 could be lowered a bit, without/ with lower fluctuations than the ones you are experiencing right now

 

[BamaCrazy]

trying to control estrogen with mast or primo is a really stupid idea

I am curious. Why do you say that? Primo works great at controlling E2. Getting the ratio correct is a little challenging but it beats an AI any day.

 

[lukiss96]

I am curious. Why do you say that? Primo works great at controlling E2. Getting the ratio correct is a little challenging but it beats an AI any day.

It's arguable. Pick your poison sort of. But I would rather dose an AI than add in mast or primo. I only need like 0.25 and maybe 0.5mg of anastrozole to feel optimal.

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

trying to control estrogen with mast or primo is a really stupid idea

I understand that using mast/primo to reduce estrogenic effects is generally frowned upon, but is using mast/primo for its non-aromatising androgenic effects in lieu of testosterone a bad idea?

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

Maybe try adding some Boldenone, easier to get than primo/mast atm. plus E2 could be lowered a bit, without/ with lower fluctuations than the ones you are experiencing right now

Doesn’t boldenone aromatise? If so, is there any advantage to it over masteron?

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

I only need like 0.25 and maybe 0.5mg of anastrozole to feel optimal.

know what your e2 is on that?

 

[IndividualMan]

Doesn’t boldenone aromatise

yes, but into E1 (estrone) which is basically unnoticeable / activates estrogen receptors far less than E2

 

[lukiss96]

know what your e2 is on that?

30 (TRT) up to 60 (Blast) somewhere in between most of the time I feel pretty good either way.

On TRT I usually take 0.25mg once every 1.5-3 weeks, I take 125mg/week of TU for that. Depending on how I feel.

Not having any problems when it comes to estrogen. I believe it's all about the ratio of T to E.

 

[2lanes]

I am curious. Why do you say that? Primo works great at controlling E2. Getting the ratio correct is a little challenging but it beats an AI any day.

It doesn't work for everyone and it's very unlikely that OP will be able to control his estrogen with it if he's already struggling with "normal" AIs.

 

[juicebro]

Nobody "frowns" on using dht derivates to reduce estrogen. It's actually super common now. It's part of the victor's black ped models which everyone has adapted one way or the other. The logic is AIs are toxic so you might as well reduce test and balance it out with dht derivates = same total amount of mgs minus AIs = less drugs being used for the same effect.

I don't believe AIs are bad or toxic though necessarily though. Nor do I believe that all AAS are the same mg to mg. That's just the logic everyone's seems to be following. It's really hard to control your estrogen properly when your dosages get up there with just AIs. I like keeping test high and throwing in 1:1 dht derivates. That somewhat stabilizes things but I still need some AI sprinkled on top. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I'm also a high aromatizer.

What I've found through my own experiments...masteron has no effect on estrogen. Primo lowers is a little. EQ slays it.

 

[lukiss96]

It doesn't work for everyone and it's very unlikely that OP will be able to control his estrogen with it if he's already struggling with "normal" AIs.

I agree, no amount of eq ever helped me to manage my estrogen, I still needed some anastrozole.

 

[DugPrime]

I have had enough of fighting aromatisation. Any dose of testosterone I take requires a big dose of an aromatase inhibitor. And my e2 fluctuates so massively between blood tests that I have no idea where my e2 actually is.

300mg of TE per week with 3.5mg of anastrozole per week puts my e2 at somewhere between 20 and 130pg/ml, depending on the day. All variables are controlled as best as possible before testing.

I feel my best at around 220mg TE per week, but with my e2 fluctuating so much, I can’t tell if any symptoms are due to high or low e2.

I am considering lowering my testosterone to the point where an AI isn’t needed. But I then lose the therapeutic effect of the testosterone.

For quality of life purposes, which compound is the best non-aromatising substitute for testosterone?

Go with a long ester, and daily injections. Also, find your sweet exemestane dosage, with two dose a day, on 500mg test, I'm currently taking 0.5mg twice a day (7mg a week), and I've never been more happy.