Bloodwork after 10 weeks of 250mg Test Cyp

[malfeasance]

Serious question: Why are you still playing with winstrol and anavar when your HDL is still low, and your hematocrit is still high?

No judgment, here. It is your body to do with as you wish. I am just trying to understand your thought process or reasoning.

 

[Uncle Bub]

Serious question: Why are you still playing with winstrol and anavar when your HDL is still low, and your hematocrit is still high?

No judgment, here. It is your body to do with as you wish. I am just trying to understand your thought process or reasoning.

Honestly I don't have a good answer for you. Don't even feel like I got a lot out of it anyway. They are going on the back burner after this test result.

 

[Nemesis RR]

Got bloodwork again after 6 weeks of cutting my test c back to 125mg a week. I did take some anavar and winstrol pre workout.

Are you doing 125mg in a single injection or multiple?

How many days after injection did you do blood work?

I would recommend 40mg on Monday Wednesday and Friday. Next time do blood work on Monday before next injection. I would also utilize an insulin syringe.

 

[Uncle Bub]

Are you doing 125mg in a single injection or multiple?

How many days after injection did you do blood work?

I would recommend 40mg on Monday Wednesday and Friday. Next time do blood work on Monday before next injection. I would also utilize an insulin syringe.

Single injection.

I can't remember exactly but it would have been at least 2 days. I normally pin on Mondays and I did the test on a Wednesday.

Can you explain why I should pin that low of a dose 3x a week and use an insulin syringe? Curious as to what the benefit would be?

 

[Ateam2023]

Single injection.

I can't remember exactly but it would have been at least 2 days. I normally pin on Mondays and I did the test on a Wednesday.

Can you explain why I should pin that low of a dose 3x a week and use an insulin syringe? Curious as to what the benefit would be?

Potentialy better e2 control as you eliminate the "trough" for the most part, Steady influx of hormones,, ymmv

 

[Grey Spartan]

To get your HEMATOCRIT down you need to hydrate. Drink at least 2 liters (64 oz) of water before your blood test. I have never found hydrating before a blood test to not work in lowing hematocrit.

 

[BabaJagga]

To get your HEMATOCRIT down you need to hydrate. Drink at least 2 liters (64 oz) of water before your blood test. I have never found hydrating before a blood test to not work in lowing hematocrit.

but isnt that solution only for that particular test? shouldnt he drink more water overall?

 

[Grey Spartan]

but isnt that solution only for that particular test? shouldnt he drink more water overall?

Yes. I guess I should of been more clear.

 

[Uncle Bub]

To get your HEMATOCRIT down you need to hydrate. Drink at least 2 liters (64 oz) of water before your blood test. I have never found hydrating before a blood test to not work in lowing hematocrit.

I drank a good amount or at least what I figured was a good amount of water before hand. Not sure if it was 64oz tho. I try to make sure I consume at least 5 or 6 bottles a day, probably more on days I workout. What should my daily target be to get my hematocrit down?

 

[Uncle Bub]

Potentialy better e2 control as you eliminate the "trough" for the most part, Steady influx of hormones,, ymmv

Thanks.

 

[BabaJagga]

I drank a good amount or at least what I figured was a good amount of water before hand. Not sure if it was 64oz tho. I try to make sure I consume at least 5 or 6 bottles a day, probably more on days I workout. What should my daily target be to get my hematocrit down?

me, natural or not, my daily water intake is around 5l during winter. during summer when i sweat a lot its around 7-8l i think. i get up and drink 1,5-2l first thing in morning.

 

[malfeasance]

It takes months of lack of stimulation for extra production of red blood cells for that number to go down.

Steroids stimulate them.

Testosterone in the normal range does not (well, at least not more than a normal male, testosterone is still stimulating, which is why the reference range is different for men and women).

 

[Nemesis RR]

Single injection.

I can't remember exactly but it would have been at least 2 days. I normally pin on Mondays and I did the test on a Wednesday.

Can you explain why I should pin that low of a dose 3x a week and use an insulin syringe? Curious as to what the benefit would be?

As others have said, lower estrogen, steady flow, less of a low from not waiting a week, and use the insulin needle for exact measurement, less scar tissue, and some believe subcutaneous shots lead to more even levels.

your levels by day 6 would have been substantially lower.

 

[Deezznutzz]

I'd be worried about those liver enzymes. Mine never got that high ever on orals.

 

[Uncle Bub]

I'd be worried about those liver enzymes. Mine never got that high ever on orals.

They are concerning. I have some Tudca on the way that I'm hoping will help some but I'm open to other suggestions as well.

 

[Uncle Bub]

I'd be worried about those liver enzymes. Mine never got that high ever on orals.

I've been taking 40mg of Telmisartan daily. Wonder if this is also contributing to the high ALT/AST.

 

[Nidus]

I've been taking 40mg of Telmisartan daily. Wonder if this is also contributing to the high ALT/AST.

Nah, Telmisartan has 0 liver impact. Would be the first time i see someone having liver issues because of this

 

[Uncle Bub]

Nah, Telmisartan has 0 liver impact. Would be the first time i see someone having liver issues because of this

I am seeing a lot of gurus promoting these meds as a prophylactic ("preventive cure-all") for healthy AAS users without providing any cautionary disclaimers whatsoever. These drugs can harm the kidneys (and the liver). They should be used for treatment of hypertension (i.e., when your blood pressure is actually chronically elevated).

These drugs (here, looking at telmisartan specifically, but as a class, this [perhaps aside from drug-drug interactions]) can cause:

1a. potassium dysregulation, e.g. hyperkalemia (increased potassium retention despite its direct action), and 1b. electrolyte imbalance
2. ALT/AST elevation that can complicate oral androgen use
3. severe hypotension for those with salt/electrolyte depletion or prolonged diuretic use
4a. kidney/renal (GFR, eGFR) dysfunction (yes, even though it's used as a therapeutic for diabetic nephropathy - kidney function should be monitored with use of this drug), and with those that have decreased cardiac function (e.g., heart failure) can cause 4b. acute kidney failure

Some drug-drug interactions:
Unfavorable: decreased tamoxifen metabolism; diuretics (this should be obvious)
Unclear: decreased raloxifene excretion resulting in a higher serum level
Favorable (I'd add to the list of benefits): decreased excretion rate of testosterone resulting in a higher serum level
Non-exhaustive list

To summarize @PeterBond from his excellent Article: Measuring and Treating High Blood Pressure in Anabolic Steroid Users, Jul 2021, Source: Measuring and Treating High Blood Pressure in Anabolic Steroid Users - MESO-Rx, which I recommend everyone read:

- One may begin to consider use of ARBs/ACE inhibitors with a blood pressure of 140/90 mmHg if taken at the doctor's office, 135/85 if taken at home. It's also far more advisable to cycle off/reduce dose and make lifestyle changes before the addition of an ARB. Though if higher than 160/100, immediate drug treatment is indicated (as is an urgent call to the doc & cessation of drugs).

- Monitoring health parameters with the use of ARBs/ACE inhibitors:

Peter Bond, Article, Jul 2021, Measuring and Treating High Blood Pressure in Anabolic Steroid Users


Yes, there are recent instances of AAS users on these meds arriving at the hospital in acute renal failure as a result (usually with some other medications that act in concert to cause kidney failure... this danger is real... after cessation of the ARB and other medications, they have avoided dialysis).

 

[Sicsemptyran]

No offense man but when you’re rocking winstrol and anavar, it’s not the 40mg of telmisartan causing the problems here. You’ve now stimulated your bone marrow enough that it isn’t able to keep up with getting enough hemoglobin in each red blood cell hence why you have that additional additional item out of range.

You need to lose weight, like a lot of it. Your existing testosterone level for someone that overweight and who had lost that much weight already really wasn’t bad, you should’ve just kept dropping the weight and your bloodwork would almost assuredly look better.

If you don’t currently use a CPAP I’d bet a house that you have sleep apnea as well at that weight + the anabolics. I’d take @malfeasance’s advice and just drop the T to a completely normal level and just keep losing weight. Steroids aren’t great for health, so haphazardly throwing them around while you’re already not healthy is just a stupid idea. Your body is showing you multiple signals telling you to stop doing this.

 

[Eddie.]

I'd be worried about those liver enzymes. Mine never got that high ever on orals.

?????

Sorry but i'm trying to understand if we're seeing the same bloodwork. The one in the first page says 34 AST and 57 ALT. If that's what you're seeing then you're totally wrong, these are pretty solid liver enzymes for someone who's just working out, not even mention taking steroids and more specific orals.

AST and ALT can go up to 2000+ before serious damage occur, usually it would be good to search further if both are above 100-130 for more than 2-3 months straight.

Best liver function indicator marker is γ-gt. If this is at normal levels and optimally below 30 then AST and ALT on 70's or 80's is not a reason to be stressed about.