Heavy on squats or enough weight to make the squat as

[47Ronin]

Is it necessary to go super heavy on squats to build. I can do a 500 lb squat but my joints always pay for it. I like squatting with 275 nice deep and slow for 12-15 reps

It’s a nice burn but I’m not sure if it’s helping me grow faster

 

[Titan18]

Depends on your goals I think. Personally l like to mix it up and do some heavy/low rep and also do moderate/higher rep for most body parts. Age is a factor. Over 40 and those heavy squats are just asking for injury. If you are younger I say go for it but mix in some higher rep stuff. Be strong in all rep ranges and through a full ROM and you have all the bases covered.

 

[LarryLove]

Is it necessary to go super heavy on squats to build. I can do a 500 lb squat but my joints always pay for it. I like squatting with 275 nice deep and slow for 12-15 reps

It’s a nice burn but I’m not sure if it’s helping me grow faster

I’m 41 and haven’t barbell squatted in well over a year. I’ve had two lumbar Discectomy’s. That said my quads have never been bigger. I bet you’d be surprised at how much mass you can put on from heavy dumbbell split squats, walking lunges, and the sled. I know I was. Do a drop set of split squats and you’ll be puking! You just have to eat to pack on the mass. That was always the toughest part for me.

 

[buck]

Squat the wat that is less harmful to the joints that way you can work out for more years. But you will need to add weight as time goes by. Once 275 is not causing any gains go to 285.

 

[narta]

Squat as heavy as you can with perfect form and good tempo.

 

[4Drago]

Lots of machines now a days that simulate squats. I believe Dorian Yates didn't do squats so you can definitely build good, big legs without barbell squats. I haven't been able to do squats in decades due to back injuries but my legs stay in proportion to my upper body without issue.

 

[Country Club Hero]

It’s hamstrings and ass that I can’t duplicate without the low bar squat. I feel like a lesser man when I can’t low bar squat. Like right now I’m waiting on an MRI for knee so no squats.

 

[eery]

Is it necessary to go super heavy on squats to build. I can do a 500 lb squat but my joints always pay for it. I like squatting with 275 nice deep and slow for 12-15 reps

It’s a nice burn but I’m not sure if it’s helping me grow faster

No, whatever weight gets you within 0-2 reps in reserve for 4-30 reps will yield similar growth in most people.


As long as its a decent squat variation be it barbell, hack, pendulum, belt etc, that you can get some decent knee flexion on and you do it with sufficient intent, hard concentrics, controlled eccentrics of 1-3 sec for example, 0-2RIR and do it for enough volume, you should be good.

 

[gettingbig]

Is it necessary to go super heavy on squats to build. I can do a 500 lb squat but my joints always pay for it. I like squatting with 275 nice deep and slow for 12-15 reps

It’s a nice burn but I’m not sure if it’s helping me grow faster

Its not necessary but if you can do 500lb then 275 for 12-15 wont do shit. You'll need to go close to failure to see the best results.

 

[47Ronin]

Its not necessary but if you can do 500lb then 275 for 12-15 wont do shit. You'll need to go close to failure to see the best results.

Yea 275 feels super light but my knees start to hurt once I get passed 375-400 lb range. It’s not hard at all to get up but I feel it in my joints. The last thing I want to do it fuck up my knees. I was thinking 325 -375 for 12-15 reps but pause for 2 seconds before coming back up.

 

[47Ronin]

Lots of machines now a days that simulate squats. I believe Dorian Yates didn't do squats so you can definitely build good, big legs without barbell squats. I haven't been able to do squats in decades due to back injuries but my legs stay in proportion to my upper body without issue.View attachment 269611

I can go go a lot heavier without feeling pain in my lower back and my knees when I use the machines/equipment that replicates Squats/hack squats/ect. I think I’m getting old man. I used to be able to barbell squat with no issues at all lol

 

[laclark89]

You can pre exhaust, do leg curls, leg extensions, even lung, hack squat, or leg press before squats so by time u get to them last u dont have to go as heavy. Might be easier on ur joints lower back ect.

 

[eery]

I can go go a lot heavier without feeling pain in my lower back and my knees when I use the machines/equipment that replicates Squats/hack squats/ect. I think I’m getting old man. I used to be able to barbell squat with no issues at all lol

Ive found that doing 1-3 worksets of 15-20 rep leg presses before squats to help any joint pain during squat variations, might be worth a shot.

 

[Cohiba]

I don't know why, but I can't seem to get as good of a workout doing leg presses or hack squats in place of regular squats. I don't seem to ever have any soreness unless I do squats. I always train to failure too. It makes no sense to me.

 

[BigTomJ]

I don't know why, but I can't seem to get as good of a workout doing leg presses or hack squats in place of regular squats. I don't seem to ever have any soreness unless I do squats. I always train to failure too. It makes no sense to me.

This is due to peripheral fatigue factors.

Squats, taken close to failure, slap around your CNS, secondary muscles, and lungs like a cheap hooker. Most of the time it's not even the quads or glutes that are failing when it comes to squats.

But the reason you feel more accomplished after squats and more sore is because of that peripheral, secondary fatigue. Just by keeping yourself balanced, upright, and traveling in a clean bar path in a stable position is working the absolute fuck out of all those little stabilizing muscles in your hips and posterior chain.

Hacks and leg press eliminate a lot of that.

That's not to say that they are better, but they are just more isolated and less fatiguing on those secondary choke points

 

[eery]

This is due to peripheral fatigue factors.

Squats, taken close to failure, slap around your CNS, secondary muscles, and lungs like a cheap hooker. Most of the time it's not even the quads or glutes that are failing when it comes to squats.

But the reason you feel more accomplished after squats and more sore is because of that peripheral, secondary fatigue. Just by keeping yourself balanced, upright, and traveling in a clean bar path in a stable position is working the absolute fuck out of all those little stabilizing muscles in your hips and posterior chain.

Hacks and leg press eliminate a lot of that.

That's not to say that they are better, but they are just more isolated and less fatiguing on those secondary choke points

I agree, as my lifting journey has evolved, ive seen the detriments of going too much to failure, so use it where or when you benefit from it. Training hard is good and all, but it has to be productive in the context of the rest of your progamming as well.

I would argue the more isolated moves are better in a hypertrophy, higher frequency training program context with work in the 8+ rep range. Less systemic fatigue, better local tension, easier to standardize technique and so on.

 

[BigTomJ]

I agree, as my lifting journey has evolved, ive seen the detriments of going too much to failure, so use it where or when you benefit from it. Training hard is good and all, but it has to be productive in the context of the rest of your progamming as well.

I would argue the more isolated moves are better in a hypertrophy, higher frequency training program context with work in the 8+ rep range. Less systemic fatigue, better local tension, easier to standardize technique and so on.

I disagree, at least on the context of training to failure.
Every single movement should be taken to failure, or at the very least close proximity to failure. Sets not taking to proximity to failure do not stimulate enough motor unit recruitment to meaningfully drive hypertrophy and would then require significantly more volume to get similar results, so much more volume that it would almost certainly be more fatiguing.

As for exercise selection, it depends on goals. If your goal is to grow your quads, then sure the squat isn't going to be absolute best.
But that doesn't mean you should avoid them in favor of mostly isolation movements.
Even if your goal is to specifically grow your quads, surely you wouldn't mind some stimulus on your glutes, hams, posterior chain as well as your quads.

 

[laclark89]

I disagree, at least on the context of training to failure.
Every single movement should be taken to failure, or at the very least close proximity to failure. Sets not taking to proximity to failure do not stimulate enough motor unit recruitment to meaningfully drive hypertrophy and would then require significantly more volume to get similar results, so much more volume that it would almost certainly be more fatiguing.

As for exercise selection, it depends on goals. If your goal is to grow your quads, then sure the squat isn't going to be absolute best.
But that doesn't mean you should avoid them in favor of mostly isolation movements.
Even if your goal is to specifically grow your quads, surely you wouldn't mind some stimulus on your glutes, hams, posterior chain as well as your quads.

to me I guess id consider 1 to 2 rir close to failure, training alone w free weights.

1 rep rir for solo machine or free weight with a spot, close to failure.

Well call 1/2 a rep failure? Do we have a similar definition here.

If your recomending sets to be taken very close to failure that would most likely be considered high intensity almost dc
style training, minus intensifyers?

Do we have a common definitions here?

Honestly I'm not advanced enough to worry about pre exhausting mabe minus squats to take pressure off my spine.

But for me or probably most people, it's best hit those heavier compound movements first in the workout followed by the isolation stuff to finish it off.

 

[BigTomJ]

to me I guess id consider 1 to 2 rir close to failure, training alone w free weights.

1 rep rir for solo machine or free weight with a spot, close to failure.

Well call 1/2 a rep failure? Do we have a similar definition here.

If your recomending sets to be taken very close to failure that would most likely be considered high intensity almost dc
style training, minus intensifyers?

Do we have a common definitions here?

Honestly I'm not advanced enough to worry about pre exhausting mabe minus squats to take pressure off my spine.

But for me or probably most people, it's best hit those heavier compound movements first in the workout followed by the isolation stuff to finish it off.

We for the most part agree, I would call 1-2 close to failure.

1/2 rep I would definitely call failure

 

[trtbuilder]

You can pre exhaust, do leg curls, leg extensions, even lung, hack squat, or leg press before squats so by time u get to them last u dont have to go as heavy. Might be easier on ur joints lower back ect.

this is what i've been doing as much as possible since i fucking hate squats