Russia begins invasion of Ukraine

[hometeam]

One one hand, Russia has no missiles and their military sucks; on the other, "if we don't' stop him now, he will take all of Europe!" Wake up man, it's so obviously you're being lied to just like Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, and virtually every war in the last 70 years.

Well as far as the Russian threat goes you have to look at what we thought of Russia's military pre-invasion and post-invasion. Also what $113 billion in aid to their adversary and a year of high intensity symmetrical war has done to them. Since the Soviet Union split into 14 countries in 1991 we have thought of Russia as a 2nd rate power compared to the US and now China, but never doubted they could annex their neighbors.

It turns out their military was more of a paper tiger or potemkin village than we thought. There is now a debate in Washington that "hey they're not a peer and our focus should be elsewhere" but we can't just cut off Ukraine's aid either and 70-80% of Ukrainians don't want to stop fighting. We need to deter this from happening in the future and leave Ukraine with defensible borders for the next Russian invasion.

I mean, Putin has said that Ukraine and Belarus are really just Russians that have been split apart from Russia by outside forces:

On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's a reality we can't afford to gloss over. The last time we had an invasion like this in Europe we got dragged into WWII and 400k Americans lost their lives.

I will leave this for everyone to read, so you understand that this indeed was engineered by the West. Russia, has national security interests, and we crossed them, time and time again. We would never tolerate China opening up bases, putting weapons, or couping a nation right in our backyard, why should Russia?

Again, the era of "American Exceptionalism" (hypocrisy) is over.

Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

For years, the political scientist has claimed that Putin’s aggression toward Ukraine is caused by Western intervention. Have recent events changed his mind?

www.newyorker.com

I've watched a lot of Mearsheimer, hours and probably much more than you @falseprophet09 , and I've tried to get Hughinn to watch him too so he stops with the "Biden and his handlers wanted this, intentionally started it with a coup, did nothing to stop it, and is the only thing preventing peace" stuff because Mearsheimer would never say any of that.

What he says is we probably angered Putin a bit too much by expanding NATO into Putin's spheres of influence (which we told him multiple times he couldn't have anymore) and a big dumb bear attacks when he's angry. He also says Putin saw Ukraine becoming NATO a threat - adding, it doesn't matter if it really was a threat that's how Putin saw it.

But, his whole argument falls apart once you realize Ukraine wasn't getting into NATO. Their application was denied. When Russia grabbed Crimea in 2014 and armed the separatist militias it was actually written in Ukraine's constitution they are neutral. And Putin had been assured many times by many people Ukraine wasn't getting into NATO any time soon, especially by the Germans. The Russians never objected when Clinton expanded NATO, the Soviets signed off on East Germany joining NATO. Also, idealists argue that sovereign countries decide for themselves which groups to join - Russia shouldn't decide that for Ukraine.

Mearsheimer said all along ever since '94 that Ukraine giving up their 1200 nukes would cause Russia to attack Ukraine.

Wayback Machine

web.archive.org

And every slight/insult since then he's said "don't poke the bear."

 

[hometeam]

But it could change your point of view. So c'mon anytime you want

Another very weird thing is you've said:
"Washington hasn't faced a war against anybody that could really fight back in forty years."
"I'm not knocking our soldiers, but the truth is they're not at all what they used to be.
Individually or collectively. Most think war is like a Safari riding around in helicopters and armored vehicles shooting at guys wearing bed sheets and riding camels. Because that's what they've been doing for the past thirty years"
"Fact is, if America had to really fight an equal entrenched and determined adversary like Russia on equal terms, he wouldn't be anywhere around the melee and bloodshed. But in the courtyards talking shit."
"we built a military to bully goat herders, jihadis and defenseless poor provinces that weren't paying up."
"It's been chasing around little brown men wearing bed sheets and riding camels for the past thirty years."

Yet you've also said you work on the machines at a munitions plant in Louisiana. There's only so many munitions plants in Louisiana, one big one in Shreveport linked to another notorious one in Alexandria. How many Russian sympathizers do they have with hands like yours who drink Modelo and troll on steroid message boards?

And what would they think about what you've been saying about our troops? About what our weapons are doing in Ukraine? What other job can you get with your education and experience? You're pretty quick to call others dumb but look at what you're doing. You're potentially destroying yourself, over nothing.

 

[Hughinn]

Another very weird thing is you've said:
"Washington hasn't faced a war against anybody that could really fight back in forty years."
"I'm not knocking our soldiers, but the truth is they're not at all what they used to be.
Individually or collectively. Most think war is like a Safari riding around in helicopters and armored vehicles shooting at guys wearing bed sheets and riding camels. Because that's what they've been doing for the past thirty years"
"Fact is, if America had to really fight an equal entrenched and determined adversary like Russia on equal terms, he wouldn't be anywhere around the melee and bloodshed. But in the courtyards talking shit."
"we built a military to bully goat herders, jihadis and defenseless poor provinces that weren't paying up."
"It's been chasing around little brown men wearing bed sheets and riding camels for the past thirty years."

Yet you've also said you work on the machines at a munitions plant in Louisiana. There's only so many munitions plants in Louisiana, one big one in Shreveport linked to another notorious one in Alexandria. How many Russian sympathizers do they have with hands like yours who drink Modelo and troll on steroid message boards?

And what would they think about what you've been saying about our troops? About what our weapons are doing in Ukraine? What other job can you get with your education and experience? You're pretty quick to call others dumb but look at what you're doing. You're potentially destroying yourself, over nothing.

Look dumbfukk,

I'm an American.

I can say whatever the fuck I want in criticism of my own government.

Shut the fuck up with threatening me by implying they'll come get me for criticism of them. Because that's the exact opposite of what you claim they are: some benevolent and well meaning force for humanity.

So either you don't even believe your own bullshit, or you don't understand what freedom of speech and personal Liberty of thought actually is.

Either way, just shove this whole thing up your ass and stop talking to me.

You're aan idiot and I don't want to talk to you anymore

 

[Hughinn]

But I was right, though. After the assassination of Daria Dugina and the terrorist suicide truck bomb on Crimean bridge, Putin did exactly what and every other geopolitical analyst said he would do. He held a referendum, annexed the Donbass, made it part of Russia, where he will literally use nukes if necessary to defend his homeland. Ukraine will never get that land again. Tell me, how is that a loss for Russia and not Ukraine? They literally gained more land, while Ukraine is getting annihilated, for nothing.

"Ukraine will never get that land again"

I agree with you here. The sad thing is, they didn't have to lose it.

With just a little bit of low cost diplomacy they could have kept every bit of it. Stayed neutral, avoided war and became prosperous by trading with both Europe and Russia.

But now, they'll lose most of what's worth having in Ukraine. They'll lose an entire generation of ukranian men and all for nothing that will benifit themselves or their own country.

You're going to keep coming back with MSM talking points which are horseshit. I said I don't want to go back and forth. In time, you and every other pro-NATO/Ukraine supporter will see how you were duped, just like I got duped into signing up for the Marine corps after 9/11 to go invade Iraq for the lies of WMDs.

You will learn eventually, but you won't learn today.

For myself, I see the possibility of this monumental blunder starting the fragmentation of the NATO alliance.

Washington has stabbed it's allies in the back by blowing up pipelines their allies owned to prevent the possibility of compromise with Russia. They've made promises they couldn't keep and cost their whole alliance and associated governments hardship.

As these stupid sanctions squeeze European countries, I'd be betting we'll see some regime changes in Europe.

Nobody in Europe, outside of maybe Poland agreed to a neverending war with Russia in Eastern Europe to benifit Washington's aspirations of world hedgemony with them at the helm. And none of those European countries are keen on the idea of perpetual war on their Eastern borders.


China wants the one belt one road initiative to open trade into European countries and European countries are going to want it too. It's a benifit to all of them.

But it cuts Washington out of equations and makes them less important and influential in the region. Which any typical American could care less about when we have problems right here to address instead of trying to control who in the world gets to trade with whom.

 

[Hughinn]

If I hadn't already made posts about buying gear from China, I would reveal my identity and link of my social media and shows I've gone on about this conflict. Americans have no idea WTF is going on, but soon will find out. Even Europe is realizing they are getting fucked by our agenda.

BRICS is going to finish off the US Petrodollar. Our "leaders" have done everything they possibly could have to destroy our country and trust from the world.

The United States has abused her power for the last century, destroying and exploiting nations. The world is tired of it; hell, I'm tired of seeing my country get plundered by the Parasite Class for their stupid wars, while hypocritically getting away with whatever it wants. Oh, the ICC wants to arrest Putin? Why not Bush, Obama, Clinton? All this fake and gay shit is going to end, folks, and it will be better for humanity.

They lied about every single was since 1913, but this one they are telling the truth? They lied about the Ghost of Kiev; Nord Stream 2; Russians raping CHILDREN, along with all sorts of other insane and stupid propaganda. How anyone still believes our govt after all it has done, not only to America, but everyone else, is beyond me.

The Multipolar world is not an END to America; it will balance power so we don't run around blowing everyone up for special interests. China/Russia is not going to take over the world. Putin is not going to, nor could he, take all of Ukraine, and all these people think he's the next Hitler trying to take ALL Europe: it cannot be done even if he wanted to.

So everyone here is arguing about the details and their opinion, but the fact is this: the West lost; it is over and this is irreversible. Doesn't matter what we argue or not. What we need to focus on, is when America is dethroned, how to fix our nation from within.

Again, you make an excellent point.

The multipolar world is not going to hurt Americans at all.

Because nuclear weapons have ensured security there's no need to have a massive military industrial complex tasked with creating an empire.

We would be very wise to invest back into American manufacturing and industry to accommodate a growing world which would be beneficial to everyone.

I don't see the Dollar dying just because of brics myself, as long as we start backing up the dollar with American exports and technology instead of forcing it on the world at the point of a gun.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

Ukraine just lost Bahkmut, and they also use committed another terrorist attack killing Russia civilian on their "kill list." I have a few associates on that list; some are American citizens, yet no condemnation from the US? Well, that's because it is supported by Langley.

One of the things that showed me this war was BS is the fact they have #NAFO trolls all over Twitter posting their CIA-backed narratives. This is by far the most propagandized war I have ever seen during my anti-War activism, in the last 10 years.

They are clearly desperate and on their way to losing it all.

There's no point debating anyone on this topic; the pro-Ukraine/NATO people are going to keep repeating MSM talking points while reality shows otherwise. They are no diff than "safe-and-effective" vaccine narrative which has been debunked a trillion times. In time, they will be admitting they were lied to no different than Iraq.

Those of you who believe the same govt that has lied to you for literally 70 years, can continue to do so; I have no interest in debating back and forth. I'm just going to post critical updates of what's actually happening.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

Well as far as the Russian threat goes you have to look at what we thought of Russia's military pre-invasion and post-invasion. Also what $113 billion in aid to their adversary and a year of high intensity symmetrical war has done to them. Since the Soviet Union split into 14 countries in 1991 we have thought of Russia as a 2nd rate power compared to the US and now China, but never doubted they could annex their neighbors.

It turns out their military was more of a paper tiger or potemkin village than we thought. There is now a debate in Washington that "hey they're not a peer and our focus should be elsewhere" but we can't just cut off Ukraine's aid either and 70-80% of Ukrainians don't want to stop fighting. We need to deter this from happening in the future and leave Ukraine with defensible borders for the next Russian invasion.

I mean, Putin has said that Ukraine and Belarus are really just Russians that have been split apart from Russia by outside forces:

On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That's a reality we can't afford to gloss over. The last time we had an invasion like this in Europe we got dragged into WWII and 400k Americans lost their lives.


I've watched a lot of Mearsheimer, hours and probably much more than you @falseprophet09 , and I've tried to get Hughinn to watch him too so he stops with the "Biden and his handlers wanted this, intentionally started it with a coup, did nothing to stop it, and is the only thing preventing peace" stuff because Mearsheimer would never say any of that.

What he says is we probably angered Putin a bit too much by expanding NATO into Putin's spheres of influence (which we told him multiple times he couldn't have anymore) and a big dumb bear attacks when he's angry. He also says Putin saw Ukraine becoming NATO a threat - adding, it doesn't matter if it really was a threat that's how Putin saw it.

But, his whole argument falls apart once you realize Ukraine wasn't getting into NATO. Their application was denied. When Russia grabbed Crimea in 2014 and armed the separatist militias it was actually written in Ukraine's constitution they are neutral. And Putin had been assured many times by many people Ukraine wasn't getting into NATO any time soon, especially by the Germans. The Russians never objected when Clinton expanded NATO, the Soviets signed off on East Germany joining NATO. Also, idealists argue that sovereign countries decide for themselves which groups to join - Russia shouldn't decide that for Ukraine.

Mearsheimer said all along ever since '94 that Ukraine giving up their 1200 nukes would cause Russia to attack Ukraine.

Wayback Machine

web.archive.org

And every slight/insult since then he's said "don't poke the bear."

The MSM literally denies everything that caused the Russians to take action' they conveniently start with; PUTIN INVADED FOR NO REASON, and leave out what the West did; they committed at coup.

It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war | Seumas Milne

Seumas Milne: The attempt to lever Kiev into the western camp by ousting an elected leader made conflict certain. It could be a threat to us all

www.theguardian.com

After the coup, the Ukranians regime started ethnically cleansing the Russia-speaking people, up to 15k causalities.

Just go back and see how the MSM was reproting on Ukraine before the war; completely different story than now. Before they showed the Azov Nazis and the rest, now they deny them lol.

Fast forward today, Ukrainians are getting slaughtered, but listen to me, listen to their own men. There are tons of videos like this out there, but why would MSM show you them? I told you, stop trusting the MSM and go on Twitter where Elon has "freed the bird" and you'll see what is actually true, because there are human beings who aren't paid shills sharing information in real time.
View: https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1641221866332323844?s=20

But no matter what I post, you will have a counter-argument, so what is the point? You choose to believe the same people that have lied to you about Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Yemen, North Korea, Syria, Libya, and so on. You actually believe this war is different for some reason?

If this were the Iraq war in 2003, you'd be telling everyone in here that Saddam has WMDs lol; and guess what? So would I, because I joined the Marines believing the lies my govt told me. But you see how wrong we'd be?

You'll learn in time. I did my part.

 

[hometeam]

I can say whatever the fuck I want in criticism of my own government.

If you want you'll see for yourself. They do come after people like you, not so much during times of peace but always during war time and times of uncertainty:

The FBI’s Long History of Treating Political Dissent as Terrorism

A new report documents the FBI’s history of violating the civil rights of political dissidents.

theintercept.com

And FYI when I was busted they did talk to my boss. And like I said this isn't Iraq, this will go down in history as the right thing to do.

 

[Hughinn]

Ukraine just lost Bahkmut, and they also use committed another terrorist attack killing Russia civilian on their "kill list." I have a few associates on that list; some are American citizens, yet no condemnation from the US? Well, that's because it is supported by Langley.

Bakmut is interesting because Ukraine/NATO implied it had no strategic value. But at the same time they went all in trying to keep it.

Bakmut is, I think the death throws of the last any meaningful Ukrainian forces. They lost it all right there.

Now they're claiming they made the Russian forces pay dearly for what's supposed to be a meaningless victory, but a quick glance at a map shows bakmut is big roadway crossing and transportation hub. I seen just about every road in the region goes through there.

Which means whoever holds it, controls the entire roadway system in the region.

Again, just the thoughts of a simple man here.

Also, I don't believe the Russians simply threw themselves at Ukrainian defenses like that idiot on here says.

The stayed at a distance for months and pounded Ukrainian forces with artillery from relatively safe distance while allowing Ukraine one small road in and out to send manpower in for the turkey shoot while preventing Ukraine from sending in any heavy counter weapons.

I would think any west point junior officer in training could have easily recognized that strategy. It's literally from the middle ages for anyone who's read anything about the crusades or Roman empire military conquests

Nonetheless the NATO/Ukraine alliance seem to have fell for it.

They're either stupid, or just don't give a damn about the ukranian people.

One of the things that showed me this war was BS is the fact they have #NAFO trolls all over Twitter posting their CIA-backed narratives. This is by far the most propagandized war I have ever seen during my anti-War activism, in the last 10 years.

It looks to me like Washington never really had a military plan here except to fight to the last Ukrainian and run a full on propoganda campaign

They are clearly desperate and on their way to losing it all.

It certainly looks like it

There's no point debating anyone on this topic; the pro-Ukraine/NATO people are going to keep repeating MSM talking points while reality shows otherwise. They are no diff than "safe-and-effective" vaccine narrative which has been debunked a trillion times. In time, they will be admitting they were lied to no different than Iraq.

Those of you who believe the same govt that has lied to you for literally 70 years, can continue to do so; I have no interest in debating back and forth. I'm just going to post critical updates of what's actually happening.

That @hometeam idiot is the same guy parroting bullshit propoganda and telling me that Washington is all in the right here and represents freedom while at the same time threatening me that if I keep criticizing them that they'll come get me.

He's not worth responding to

 

[Hughinn]

If you want you'll see for yourself. They do come after people like you, not so much during times of peace but always during war time and times of uncertainty:

The FBI’s Long History of Treating Political Dissent as Terrorism

A new report documents the FBI’s history of violating the civil rights of political dissidents.

theintercept.com

Then we don't have a democracy or freedom of speech.

And as a Born American, it's my right and my choice to fight for those things against anything or anybody that wants to take them away.

So leave me alone.

 

[Hughinn]

@falseprophet09

Look at bakmut below and the roadways.

You can't get from east to west, north to south without going through it.

It's like Alexandria Louisiana.

You can't get from North Louisiana to Acadia without going through it.

Because to the east is a massive swamp called the atchaflaya swamp and to the west is the Toledo bend reservoir and the red river.

If you shut off Alex, you can't get anywhere in the region without going around for hundreds of miles.

This is why I believe they lied about it's importance and downplayed losing it.

They're trying to hide the fact that NATO/Ukraine is losing to keep the fighting going on and prevent a peace compromise

 

[Deleted member 123722]

Bakmut is interesting because Ukraine/NATO implied it had no strategic value. But at the same time they went all in trying to keep it.

Bakmut is, I think the death throws of the last any meaningful Ukrainian forces. They lost it all right there.

Now they're claiming they made the Russian forces pay dearly for what's supposed to be a meaningless victory, but a quick glance at a map shows bakmut is big roadway crossing and transportation hub. I seen just about every road in the region goes through there.

Which means whoever holds it, controls the entire roadway system in the region.

Again, just the thoughts of a simple man here.

Also, I don't believe the Russians simply threw themselves at Ukrainian defenses like that idiot on here says.

The stayed at a distance for months and pounded Ukrainian forces with artillery from relatively safe distance while allowing Ukraine one small road in and out to send manpower in for the turkey shoot while preventing Ukraine from sending in any heavy counter weapons.

I would think any west point junior officer in training could have easily recognized that strategy. It's literally from the middle ages for anyone who's read anything about the crusades or Roman empire military conquests

Nonetheless the NATO/Ukraine alliance seem to have fell for it.

They're either stupid, or just don't give a damn about the ukranian people.



It looks to me like Washington never really had a military plan here except to fight to the last Ukrainian and run a full on propoganda campaign




It certainly looks like it





That @hometeam idiot is the same guy parroting bullshit propoganda and telling me that Washington is all in the right here and represents freedom while at the same time threatening me that if I keep criticizing them that they'll come get me.

He's not worth responding to

Correct. Russia doesn't need to speed into a death trap. Ukraine has entrenched itself with good defenses; Russians are taking their time destroying them for two reasons: A) reduce needless casualties, since their objective is not to take all of Ukraine; B.) to "starve" Ukraine of its resources, as their entire military effort depends on the West. At some point, the West will no longer be able to fund and arm them, since the people of the West will be suffering for a war they see no ROI in for themselves, and Russia knows that.

 

[hometeam]

Then we don't have a democracy or freedom of speech.

Unlike Russia they won't put you in jail for 3-15 years for disparaging the troops. But they will watch you, make sure you're not plotting anything, arrest you for anything illegal they see you're doing. It's a fine line but a country protects itself.

And as a Born American, it's my right and my choice to fight for those things against anything or anybody that wants to take them away.

When what you're saying is so full of Russian lies, misinformation and antagonism nobody can tell if you're a professional Russian troll of an amatuer one you're not fighting the good fight. Especially when you're trying to cut down an American foreign policy success.

Mearsheimer is fighting the good fight. He criticizes American policy in a constructive way using information and logic that holds up to scrutiny. You're just getting used by the Russians because you both hate Joe Biden.

 

[Hughinn]

Unlike Russia they won't put you in jail for 3-15 years for disparaging the troops. But they will watch you, make sure you're not plotting anything, arrest you for anything illegal they see you're doing. It's a fine line but a country protects itself.


When what you're saying is so full of Russian lies, misinformation and antagonism nobody can tell if you're a professional Russian troll of an amatuer one you're not fighting the good fight. Especially when you're trying to cut down an American foreign policy success.

Mearsheimer is fighting the good fight. He criticizes American policy in a constructive way using information and logic that holds up to scrutiny. You're just getting used by the Russians because you both hate Joe Biden.

Why don't you reply to that Ukrainian soldier in the other post you chickenshit bastard?

Reply with you mealy mouthed cunt horseshit to this man


View: https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1641221866332323844?t=SIDyckFJaZAX_kwpIZHBrw&s=19






Reply to that man with your horseshit propoganda and leave me the fuck alone you cowardly bitch.

 

[hometeam]

Ukraine just lost Bahkmut,

Wagner/Russia has been saying that for months. But the battle keeps going on:

Ukraine mocks Russian claim to have taken Bakhmut, says attacks repelled

Bakhmut has been the scene of one of the bloodiest battles of the war, now in its second year, with huge casualties on both sides and much of the eastern city destroyed by bombardments.

www.reuters.com

Except for the small town of Soledar (population 10k), Russia hasn't had anything to crow about since last May. Kinda strange for an army that's winning.

The ISW has been saying since the beginning of the offensive that Russia lacks the ability to conduct "multiple simultaneous large-scale mechanized offensives" so they can't really attack Bakhmut and make serious assaults elsewhere at the same time.

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, January 28, 2023

Conventional Russian forces are likely replacing exhausted Wagner Group forces to maintain the offensive in Bakhmut after the Wagner Group’s offensive in Bakhmut culminated with the capture of Soledar around January 12. The Wagner Group’s assault on Bakhmut has likely culminated with its surge...

isw.pub

Unfortunately for Russia they have gotten bogged down into the type of battle in Bakhmut that no military wants to get bogged down into: block by block, building by building urban fighting where you're the attacker and they're the defender. It's the same type of battle US forces lost in the first Fallujah campaign. And it's eating up Russia's forces. It has stalled their Spring offensive.

Correct. Russia doesn't need to speed into a death trap.

That's exactly what they have been doing, these have been human wave type attacks. Though they've been running out of Wagner convicts and more cautious with their regular army.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/russias-human-wave-attacks-are-another-stepinto-hell/2023/02/14/574e7202-ac27-11ed-b0ba-9f4244c6e5da_story.html

And while Russia has lost too many soldiers now to have a lofty goal such as assaulting Kharkiv, Kherson or Kiev; the Ukrainians have enough soldiers to start an offensive of their own soon.

I would think any west point junior officer in training could have easily recognized that strategy.

Yes, Fred Kagan was a professor at West Point, now runs the ISW, and he has recognized it:
"Russia’s most recent gains around Bakhmut relied on months of human wave attacks to secure territorial gains around Bakhmut by brute force at tremendous human costs."

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, January 28, 2023

Conventional Russian forces are likely replacing exhausted Wagner Group forces to maintain the offensive in Bakhmut after the Wagner Group’s offensive in Bakhmut culminated with the capture of Soledar around January 12. The Wagner Group’s assault on Bakhmut has likely culminated with its surge...

isw.pub

@falseprophet09

Look at bakmut below and the roadways.

You can't get from east to west, north to south without going through it.

It's like Alexandria Louisiana.

You can't get from North Louisiana to Acadia without going through it.

Because to the east is a massive swamp called the atchaflaya swamp and to the west is the Toledo bend reservoir and the red river.

If you shut off Alex, you can't get anywhere in the region without going around for hundreds of miles.

This is why I believe they lied about it's importance and downplayed losing it.

Once the supply road to Bakhmut was about to get cut off they were about to withdraw to the West about 10 miles to Chasiv Yar, dig in and set up lines there. Do the same thing. But someone convinced Zelensky to send a counter attack and open the road back up.

Zelensky's explanation later would be that no one is supporting Russia partially because Russia isn't seeing any success and can't convince anyone they can win, and a Bakhmut victory might bring Russia new allies/support:

Ukraine's Zelenskyy: Any Russian victory could be perilous

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is warning that his nation must win a drawn-out battle in a key eastern city.

apnews.com

 

[hometeam]

If this were the Iraq war in 2003, you'd be telling everyone in here that Saddam has WMDs lol; and guess what? So would I, because I joined the Marines believing the lies my govt told me. But you see how wrong we'd be?

You'll learn in time. I did my part.

To the contrary, I was one of the biggest Iraq War critics. But this time it's Russia's mistake. It's Russia who invaded and are spinning lies about Nazis, coups, and the West causing it instead of them. You can't see that?

There is no proof of this coup. Did we start some George Soros type protest? Who knows? There's no evidence to show we did. Zero. And they say they didn't. And the Ukrainians had a reason to protest. Either way, it wasn't the protest that was Yanukovych's downfall it was the Russian/Syrian style crackdown of the protest and the outrage afterwards. The FSB was there that day not the CIA.

And even if we did create a coup, it's not Putin's country. It doesn't justify an invasion. It doesn't justify arming those militias. It didn't start a civil war without Putin arming those militias. And we could've given Ukraine enough aid to beat those militias but Obama was afraid it would provoke Putin. We know now Putin was going to invade anyway and we probably should've.

And Yanukovych could have stayed, made the case the Maidan deaths were not his fault, weathered the storm until the elections later that year. But he gave up. He decided to go to Russia and not come back. That's what ended his Presidency and that's not on anybody but him, and the Russian special forces helicopter that picked him up and took him to Russia.

That's why I point to Professor Mearsheimer - because he's saying the same thing you're saying but he's not going to talk about coups and money laundering. It doesn't hold up to scrutiny and he needs to be taken seriously as a professional and expert on the matter. It's just a conspiracy theory.

 

[Deleted member 123722]

No Nazis? lol We have videos of them; even the ADL admits there are Nazis in Ukraine: Azov Battalion.


View: https://twitter.com/GaelianPrincess/status/1642629594955087875?s=20



View: https://twitter.com/cowboyml/status/1641152581308121119?s=20



View: https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1510317194483097601?s=20


You need to get on fucking Twitter and follow people on the ground, not listen to MSM. Twitter is going to be the only place to get real news; that's Elon's entire plan as he stated in a recent Twitter space. That's why he BOUGHT Twitter, because he even got sick of the MSM lies.

No coup? We have recording of Nuland on the phone discussing what should be done. Bro, you're being hypocritical again. AMERICA would never tolerate what US/NATO are doing to Russia's borders on ours, but Russia should tolerate it?

Again, I'm wasting my time here.

 

[hometeam]

No Nazis? lol We have videos of them; even the ADL admits there are Nazis in Ukraine: Azov Battalion.

Yes. One battalion (1000-2000 soldiers) with some symbols and racism, which has all been dealt with. I know that. We have that in the US too, probably a little bit in the US military even.

This is not Nazi Germany. Show me a Twitter video of an extermination camp in Ukraine. They not killing 6 million jews there. And Ukraine hasn't invaded anybody like Nazi Germany did. They aren't trying to conquer Europe.

No coup? We have recording of Nuland on the phone discussing what should be done. Bro, you're being hypocritical again.

On the phone call she clearly says "I'm still trying to figure out in my mind why Yanukovych did that." And where are the pictures of her handing out cash to protesters? Why didn't she say anything about Poroshenko, who would win the Presidential election about 8 months later? Or Zelensky, who would beat him 5 years later?

What exactly did she say she did to cause this "coup"? She said she didn't think Klitsch should go into government and she likes Yatseniuk and she was going to talk to them. She's a diplomat, she's going to say and do those things. It looks shady but it's not proof of anything.

AMERICA would never tolerate what US/NATO are doing to Russia's borders on ours, but Russia should tolerate it?

Russia and America are not equals. And Russia provoked NATO by invading a European country.

As Former Director of Russian Affair Thomas Graham says:
"I don’t think you can exaggerate the extent to which, in the Russian mind, being a great power is a central element of Russian national identity." -Graham

Thomas Graham | FRONTLINE | PBS | Official Site | Documentary Series

Thomas Graham on Trump, Putin and Russian election interference – as told to FRONTLINE during our reporting for “Putin’s Revenge.” Explore the full, on-the-record interview.

www.pbs.org

Yet their military is no stronger than France or India; economy no stronger than Italy or Chile. Russia has to tolerate what they would tolerate.

You choose to believe the same people that have lied to you about Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Yemen, North Korea, Syria, Libya, and so on. You actually believe this war is different for some reason?

What lies about Afghanistan? 9-11 clearly happened and Al Qaeda caused it. Yes, Iraq was a lie. The UN never approved it; Germany and France staunchly objected. But that doesn't mean everything you see in the media is a lie - you see a lot more lies on Twitter.

France and Germany clearly support Ukraine. 141 countries in the UN have condemned Russia 3 times now. 50 countries have sent Ukraine aid. How could that be so if Russia is right and the US is wrong here? That the world is uniting against us over it?

 

[Hughinn]

Wagner/Russia has been saying that for months. But the battle keeps going on:

Ukraine mocks Russian claim to have taken Bakhmut, says attacks repelled

Bakhmut has been the scene of one of the bloodiest battles of the war, now in its second year, with huge casualties on both sides and much of the eastern city destroyed by bombardments.

www.reuters.com

Except for the small town of Soledar (population 10k), Russia hasn't had anything to crow about since last May. Kinda strange for an army that's winning.

The ISW has been saying since the beginning of the offensive that Russia lacks the ability to conduct "multiple simultaneous large-scale mechanized offensives" so they can't really attack Bakhmut and make serious assaults elsewhere at the same time.

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, January 28, 2023

Conventional Russian forces are likely replacing exhausted Wagner Group forces to maintain the offensive in Bakhmut after the Wagner Group’s offensive in Bakhmut culminated with the capture of Soledar around January 12. The Wagner Group’s assault on Bakhmut has likely culminated with its surge...

isw.pub

Unfortunately for Russia they have gotten bogged down into the type of battle in Bakhmut that no military wants to get bogged down into: block by block, building by building urban fighting where you're the attacker and they're the defender. It's the same type of battle US forces lost in the first Fallujah campaign. And it's eating up Russia's forces. It has stalled their Spring offensive.


That's exactly what they have been doing, these have been human wave type attacks. Though they've been running out of Wagner convicts and more cautious with their regular army.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/russias-human-wave-attacks-are-another-stepinto-hell/2023/02/14/574e7202-ac27-11ed-b0ba-9f4244c6e5da_story.html

And while Russia has lost too many soldiers now to have a lofty goal such as assaulting Kharkiv, Kherson or Kiev; the Ukrainians have enough soldiers to start an offensive of their own soon.


Yes, Fred Kagan was a professor at West Point, now runs the ISW, and he has recognized it:
"Russia’s most recent gains around Bakhmut relied on months of human wave attacks to secure territorial gains around Bakhmut by brute force at tremendous human costs."

Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, January 28, 2023

Conventional Russian forces are likely replacing exhausted Wagner Group forces to maintain the offensive in Bakhmut after the Wagner Group’s offensive in Bakhmut culminated with the capture of Soledar around January 12. The Wagner Group’s assault on Bakhmut has likely culminated with its surge...

isw.pub

Once the supply road to Bakhmut was about to get cut off they were about to withdraw to the West about 10 miles to Chasiv Yar, dig in and set up lines there. Do the same thing. But someone convinced Zelensky to send a counter attack and open the road back up.

Zelensky's explanation later would be that no one is supporting Russia partially because Russia isn't seeing any success and can't convince anyone they can win, and a Bakhmut victory might bring Russia new allies/support:

Ukraine's Zelenskyy: Any Russian victory could be perilous

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is warning that his nation must win a drawn-out battle in a key eastern city.

apnews.com

Again, you cowardly cunt,

Don't talk to me anymore.

Talk to this man

View: https://twitter.com/ricwe123/status/1623587420246536193?t=RaZShG0-Q9-hA8LLUi4V5g&s=19


And this man,


View: https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1641221866332323844?t=zItTwnK4pHsp2NCv5cRLhg&s=19


And @falseprophet09 who fought for the other side.

And note something you piece of cowardly shit...

None of them mentioned "Putin" or the "evil Russian people"

And all of them mentioned the greedy bastards responsible for the death and suffering.

Leave me be you useless sack of shit.
I want nothing to do with you or your propoganda.

Fuck off and leave me alone

And fuck you too @Big_paul

I used to respect you. I used to like you.
I can't believe you bought the bullshit this bastard is selling.
It such a disappointment that you really support this shit and come against me, when you know what type of motherfukker I am and still side against me on this.

That hurts me more than anything else really. So fuck you too

 

[hometeam]

None of them mentioned "Putin" or the "evil Russian people"

You think the US doesn't have any soldiers who criticize their President? I hate to break it to you but this is very common among soldiers at war, especially conscripted ones. They piss and moan about all kinds of things.

There are videos out there of masked Russian soldiers criticizing Putin and intercepted phone calls too:

‘Putin Is a Fool’: Intercepted Calls Reveal Russian Army in Disarray (Published 2022)

In phone calls to friends and relatives at home, Russian soldiers gave damning insider accounts of battlefield failures and civilian executions, excoriating their leaders just weeks into the campaign to take Kyiv.

www.nytimes.com

Mothers of Russian soldiers slam "shameful" Putin meeting

The women have accused Putin of "hiding" from the mothers and wives of Russian soldiers sent to fight in Ukraine.

www.newsweek.com

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRdm5HjSBkI


But like the trolls at the Russian troll factory you seize that narrative, repeat it enough times without much objection and maybe it'll stick.