MR_Midas
Member
I read this thread with interest, here the guys are arguing, arguing heatedly, and this is sometimes a lot of fun.
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Russia begins invasion of Ukraine
- Thread starter Fifap94
- Start date
Everyone knows the election was stolen. Everyone is still stunned. It's like we are in paralysis. By every metric, Trump won. Look at the counties. Trump won all of those counties. Biden's votes came from a few counties in comparison. None of the voting makes any sense by any calculation you use. Fraud everywhere. It should be obvious to all. I think it is but people are still stunned.
Then you have enthusiasm. Poor Joe Biden couldn't get anyone to attend his campaign events. They tried, but no one was interested.
Trump would announce an event a day before and have a maximum capacity crowd show up. There would be a full airfield of 25,000-50,000 people and then thousands more outside the fences and down the road. Rain or shine. Cold or hot.
I believe Trump had many more votes than 74,000,000. I believe he had well over 100 million votes, the biggest support for any president ever. I knew so many Democrats who secretly voted for Trump. Everyone was supporting Trump in private or in public. For so may liberals, it was their semi guilty secret. People made sure they turned out. People really got up off their asses to go vote. Only the absolute fanatic democrats supported and voted for Joe Biden. It's an extremely vocal but rather small group. Even they were quiet.
The election is important. Ukraine is connected to it also.....
Then you have enthusiasm. Poor Joe Biden couldn't get anyone to attend his campaign events. They tried, but no one was interested.
Trump would announce an event a day before and have a maximum capacity crowd show up. There would be a full airfield of 25,000-50,000 people and then thousands more outside the fences and down the road. Rain or shine. Cold or hot.
I believe Trump had many more votes than 74,000,000. I believe he had well over 100 million votes, the biggest support for any president ever. I knew so many Democrats who secretly voted for Trump. Everyone was supporting Trump in private or in public. For so may liberals, it was their semi guilty secret. People made sure they turned out. People really got up off their asses to go vote. Only the absolute fanatic democrats supported and voted for Joe Biden. It's an extremely vocal but rather small group. Even they were quiet.
The election is important. Ukraine is connected to it also.....
The billionaire globalist donors of the democrat party demanded to see that the DNC can circumvent getting the most support.
They know they can't win elections without controlling the narrative, censoring public debate and information.
It's important to remember that it wasn't Joe Biden that won the election vs Donald Trump.
The government won the election vs the people. Just like in Brazil last week.
Globalists are trying to squelch numerous nationalist movements all over the world right now. Because if the people honestly control thier respective governments, then it's not so easy to extract and transfer wealth across borders of seperate sovereign nations without paying a high cost to the citizens of those nations.
The big money donors of the democrat party also control certain cliques of the republican party as well, but those cliques are losing influence and power inside the GOP itself as the populist movement Trump harnessed gains momentum.
Thusly as Joe Biden has openly proclaimed that populist movement as the biggest enemy of America, what's actually true is it's the biggest enemy of the entrenched Washington DC establishment.
Just like getting the Ukrainian people to fight the Russians using agitation, propoganda, coups and color revolutions, they're getting Americans to fight each other both for the benifit of the Washington DC Cartel on Potomac.
Creating Boogeyman for the fools to hate. Everyone is Hitler to the Democrats. The Hitler of the month went from Trump to Putin and next to whomever they want the herd to bleat about
This sums it up
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The US/NATO alliance wanted this war in Ukraine since 2014 and have done everything they could to prepare and provoke it.
Unfortunately, Russia took the bait.
I wonder sometimes that if Putin had simply shut off the energy spigot to western Europe and demanded that Ukraine demilitarize and end the civil war in Donbas if he would have survived personally.
I'll say this much though: the cartel on the Potomac is not going to allow Donald Trump or anyone else near the Whitehouse that's willing to end this war anytime soon. If our next president comes and starts talking about de-escalation and brokering peace, we could see some JFK shit happen.
They've already literally banned Donald Trump from having an open public platform.
I'm waiting to see if they can actually elect a pro war candidate in 2024.
If Russia cannot put an end to this by then, I assure you, we'll truly be on the brink of a world war. And yet another, consolidation of wealth and power into the hands of the wealthy elites.
Without some revolutionary activities or power shifts inside America or western Europe, the draconian dream of the democrat party will be beyond solving by an election and the globalist imperial ambitions and agendas of the world elites will consume the Russian federation one state at a time as it moves toward total global domination and the police state in the nations it controls grows to massive unstoppable proportions.
As the sheep bleat and moan, the butcher block prepares
Unfortunately, Russia took the bait.
I wonder sometimes that if Putin had simply shut off the energy spigot to western Europe and demanded that Ukraine demilitarize and end the civil war in Donbas if he would have survived personally.
I'll say this much though: the cartel on the Potomac is not going to allow Donald Trump or anyone else near the Whitehouse that's willing to end this war anytime soon. If our next president comes and starts talking about de-escalation and brokering peace, we could see some JFK shit happen.
They've already literally banned Donald Trump from having an open public platform.
I'm waiting to see if they can actually elect a pro war candidate in 2024.
If Russia cannot put an end to this by then, I assure you, we'll truly be on the brink of a world war. And yet another, consolidation of wealth and power into the hands of the wealthy elites.
Without some revolutionary activities or power shifts inside America or western Europe, the draconian dream of the democrat party will be beyond solving by an election and the globalist imperial ambitions and agendas of the world elites will consume the Russian federation one state at a time as it moves toward total global domination and the police state in the nations it controls grows to massive unstoppable proportions.
As the sheep bleat and moan, the butcher block prepares
MR_Midas
Member
I may be wrong, but I think that Trump's choice was stolen, I'm not an expert, just my opinion. From what I have read and studied.
MR_Midas
Member
For many, it is obvious that Russia has been provoked for a long time and with emphasis on this war. And in the end, they got their way. The most deplorable thing is that this is not the business of Russia or Ukraine, all this affects the overall world economy. Europe is getting poorer, we are getting poorer, and how it will end is not clear.
Baker told Gorbachev on 9 Feb 1990 "Not an inch Eastwards". Of course Soviet, Russia and Putin sees the West as breaking geopolitical promises.
Not an inch Eastwards
NATO has slowly pushed East, taking on ex-Warszawa pact countries.
I wonder how USA would act if Russia or Soviet tried to extend military reach by placing missiles nearby... for example... in Cuba? Oh, we all know how that went. USA felt provoked and took decisive action. But somehow Russia is not supposed to be provoked?
NATO: We fully support Ukraine’s inherent right to self-defence and to choose its own security arrangements.
NATO official statement
However this right to choose security alliances and arrangement only apply if they want to partner up with NATO:
US Department of State categorically (January/March 2022) states that any attempt by Venezuela to host Russian military bases will be opposed and met with decisive action.
Russia ask why USA demand Russia to leave Venezuela
Hypocrisy at it's best.
To say that the US/NATO caused this would be to ignore Russia's imperialism, Russia being on the decline wanting to be great again, that it doesn't like democratic neighbors, and that Ukraine posed no threat to Russia. And also as a sovereign independent nation, Ukraine/Estonia/Latvia/Georgia gets to decide what clan it belongs to. It is not up to a stronger country like Russia to decide that for them.
Unfortunately Russia as a society is very imperialistic. That creates an existential threat to Europe, and with nuclear weapons is a threat to the world. Hundreds of years of Tsarist expansion and Soviet expansion should probably tell us it’s just too ingrained in their culture. Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Stalin... It's the largest country on earth, almost twice as large as the second. Putin is a believer in "russky mir" which means anywhere Russia expands its borders into is now subject to: one language (Russian), one religion (Orthodoxy), one leader (Putin).
NATO is purely a defensive organization - an attack on one is an attack on all. If you’re in Finland, Estonia, Latvia or Poland right now you’re probably looking at what’s going on in Ukraine very nervously and feel a need to band together. It's whole purpose is to stop Russian expansion. If Russia could show they are fine with their borders as it is, there would be no need for NATO. But then Putin wouldn't have such and issue with NATO then either. If left unchecked, Russia would absorb Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan and then we would have another cold war.
In 2004 Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko was poisoned in an assassination attempt to install pro-Russia puppet Yanukovych - leading to the Orange Revolution. The people he believed poisoned him were given Russian citizenship and sheltered in Russia. Russia finally got their puppet Yanukovych installed in 2010 but after the Euromaiden riots and Revolution of Dignity in 2014 he was impeached. He now lives in exile in Russia. It's clear since then that the Ukrainians as a majority don't want to be a vassal state to Putin.
For 8 years Russia has been funding, equipping and training anti-Ukraine militias in the Donbas... sending in non-uniformed soldiers. Shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 killing 300 people. Zelensky was elected in 2019 and opposed Poroschenko who was elected in 2014. But Putin wanted a puppet in Ukraine. He thought his military could swat Ukraine's like a fly and install a puppet regime. That turned out to be a big miscalculation and big mistake.
You really have to twist your mind and spin things to look past the fact that it's Russia that is the aggressor here, that Russia wants Ukraine to be part of Russia, and that Ukraine doesn't want to be part of Russia. That Ukraine is just defending themselves, something they are happy to do, and that NATO is just enabling them to defend themselves.
"Ukraine aid seems to be a good deal for the US... very affordable aid setting back the military a dictator antagonistic to the West" - @hometeam
In other words, this stupid bastard hometeam thinks this war is a good idea because he thinks Russia may have imperial ambitions that might interfere with the imperial ambitions of his own leadership.
Bitch, look, your horseshit about "Russian people are imperialist" is just about as informed as a San Francisco liberal claiming that they typical Midwestern conservative is a "facist"
You've made yourself look stupid here over and over again.
Enough already
Bullshit.
The orange revolution brought yushchenko into power you fkn idiot.
He was literally railroaded and voted out in 2010 amid huge scandal's and corruption.
If you're going to spew lied and bullshit, at least get the sequence of events correct.
Lmfao.
Stupidity, plain and simple.
He didn't "get impeached" he was violently overthrown by neo Nazi militia groups sponsored by the US state department along with the maidan riots and revolution.
The same neo Nazi groups that would surround zelensky a few years later and remind him who really runs the show
Eric Snowden also lives in exile in Russia.
Does that mean he wants to be a "vassal of Putin"? Or is it simply that's it's only safe place in the world from the cartel on the Potomac?
NATO and the US has been arming Nazi militia groups to fight the seperatist movements in the Donbass.
What the fuck is the difference and why are we arming Nazis to fight ethnic Russian people?
Another flat out fuckin lie.
That plane was flying over an active war zone with both sides shooting at each other.
Whatever happened there was clearly not intentional and nobody really knows which side hit the airplane. Ukraine blames Russia, as does Western propoganda. Russia blames Ukraine, as does everyone else on that side.
Cut the bullshit spinning it as some kind of terrorism.
Zelensky was elected on a pro peace platform and promised to stop the war in Donbass....he didn't
You've got to be a twisted up goddamn moron to think NATO is purely defensive and just wants to "help people defend themselves"
Every single foreign policy expert for the past forty years would vomit over the noxious horseshit you've just posted.
Everyone knew for a fact NATO expansion would lead to war. It was totally unnecessary.
We've been over all of this before in detail and you've been utterly humiliated with the bullshit you posted. Repeatedly saying the same lies and bullshit over and over again won't make it true
Yes. And what you don't understand is the people you're getting your ideas from believe this as well. This whole idea that NATO "poked the Russian bear in the eye" bringing about this response actually comes from Professor John Mearsheimer of Chicago University, a very highly respected expert on international relations. But most disagree with him on this.
Mearsheimer argued in '93 that Ukraine should not give up their nuclear weapons because Russia will end up attacking them. Then, when Clinton and Bush started courting Estonia, Latvia, Georgia and Ukraine into NATO he said "don't do it, you're poking the bear." Then in 2014 and 2022 he said "Ha! See I told you, I was right! Look how smart I am." I'm paraphrasing.
He argues that since Europe sees Russian expansion as an existential threat and since Russia sees NATO expansion as an existential threat it was on Ukraine to stay a neutral party, a "buffer zone" he calls it. There's just one problem: a Westernized NATO friendly Ukraine is not an existential threat to Russia. And Marsheimer doesn't disagree with that, the fact is Ukraine was no threat and neighboring countries Estonia/Latvia has been NATO members since 2004. He just says it doesn't matter, it only matters that Putin sees it as a threat or at least says he sees it as a threat and warned as much. And he says once you took away Ukraine's nuclear weapons they no longer have a say in the matter.
Now anti-Ukraine and anti-US/NATO people (Ritter/MacGregor/Giraldi) have twisted this to say that the US and NATO knew Russia would attack if they had aggressive policies in the area so this was all some conspiracy to start a war but that's not the case, everyone was surprised by it - except apparently Marsheimer, and even he would say it wasn't guaranteed Russia would attack it was just a bad idea to risk it, in his view. Nobody wanted Russia to attack Ukraine. And NATO only started meddling in the area after the Chechnya War and after Russia attacked Georgia - it then became clear they needed to contain Russia. There was a few years before that when NATO and Russia were friendly.
And Mearsheimer's theories totally ignore Russia's imperialism, Russia being on the decline wanting to be great again, that it doesn't like democratic neighbors, and that Ukraine posed no threat to Russia. And also as a sovereign independent nation, Ukraine/Estonia/Latvia/Georgia gets to decide what clan it belongs to. It is not up to a stronger country like Russia to decide that for them. It's not right to say nuclear powers can bully the non-nuclear ones.
Ultimately he says the war and Ukrainian support is bad for the US because he says it's China that is the peer here not Russia. And the only clear winner from this is China. The US and EU will face economic consequences harsher than China's. We also are putting all our thoughts, energy, spies, satellites etc on Russia/Ukraine while China builds it's forces up in the South China Sea.
So, for you it's a checkers game between Trump and Biden who chose different sides Russia and Ukraine. For you it's about how to make Biden and US foreign policy look bad and hopefully get your guy back in office. For him it's a chess game between Russia, the West, and China.
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No, you stupid bastard.
For me it's about stopping my own government from funding, instigating and agitating endless wars for profit and empirical expansion of a globalist state by perpetual promotion of conflict and human suffering.
You know why dumbfuxk?
Because I don't believe America was ever meant to be an empire with globalist ambition. But a constitutional Republic of free and independent people.
Not a goddamn wretched hive of scum and villianny bent on ruling the world
Then you should be happy with Biden because other than helping Ukraine defend themselves (which he has hasn't committed any troops to) and warning China not to attack Taiwan he has been a non-interventionalist President. In fact he got us out of Afghanistan.
But no, you're just a political hackjob... Biden this, Biden that. Election this, election that. Standing on the shoulders of Mearsheimer to reach conclusions much different than his own.
The idiot says I should be "happy" with Joe Biden because although he's sending billions of dollars of our money to a corrupt Eastern European ogliarchy that bribed him and his family with millions of dollars and is now entrenched in a war Joe Biden helped orchestrate, he's actually "non-interventionist". Lmfao
You've got to be some special kind of stupid for that bullshit to make any sense whatsoever
Dude really, you're a dumbass mfer. And you just keep making yourself look stupid here.
Slink off the degenerate idiot you are already.
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One for the aged here courtesy of Edward Snowden.
A man whose only crime was to tell truths that the establishment doesn't want you to hear. He and Julian assange will live the rest of their lives in hiding and prison for telling you the truth. You should listen carefully
Stupid people cheer this on. And this @hometeam idiot thinks his propoganda is the truth today. When it was lies in the 60s
View: https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1589606899569377282?t=uK7lzHOj3Un1HiWTh_XITA&s=19
A man whose only crime was to tell truths that the establishment doesn't want you to hear. He and Julian assange will live the rest of their lives in hiding and prison for telling you the truth. You should listen carefully
Stupid people cheer this on. And this @hometeam idiot thinks his propoganda is the truth today. When it was lies in the 60s
View: https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1589606899569377282?t=uK7lzHOj3Un1HiWTh_XITA&s=19
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MR_Midas
Member
Everything is true hypocrisy, what is possible for the USA, it is impossible for others. Only We can invade foreign states, organize peaceful and not quite peaceful revolutions. We bring democracy and peace. Hypocrisy.
I see the pro-Russia posters in this thread have gotten very quiet over the past few days and it's probably because Kherson was taken by the Ukrainians, a city of 200,000 people and the only regional city Russia managed to capture in their offensive.
www.independent.co.uk
So, Russia redeployed soldiers from the Kharkiv front to bolster Kherson and keep this from happening. That led to the Kharkiv rout and Russia's mobilization. It happened anyway. In Kherson supply routes were cut off, bridges blown, they were low on supplies, the Russians had the Dnipro river to their back and if they were defeated they would lose 30,000 soldiers killed or captured - their best soldiers, so they've ordered an orderly retreat, a withdrawal, before the battle starts and shit gets real.
Repercussions for this: if Russia can't even defend and hold Kherson with Dnipro bridges blown they won't be able to retake it. It takes 2x to 3x the attackers as defenders to assault a city and they'd have to get across the river somehow. They couldn't even get supplies across the river to mount a defense.
Also, if they don't have Kherson they can't take Odessa. So this @falseprophet09 bullshit about Russia taking the gloves off and finally crushing all of Ukraine can be set aside. Also, Ukraine announced they are mobilizing another 200k, so for Russia to take and hold Ukraine right now would require 1.8 million to 2.7 million troops and far more equipment than they have. Not gonna happen.
Ukraine: Putin claims he ‘shares pain’ of troops’ mothers - live
President meets women ahead of Russia’s Mother’s Day
www.independent.co.uk
So, Russia redeployed soldiers from the Kharkiv front to bolster Kherson and keep this from happening. That led to the Kharkiv rout and Russia's mobilization. It happened anyway. In Kherson supply routes were cut off, bridges blown, they were low on supplies, the Russians had the Dnipro river to their back and if they were defeated they would lose 30,000 soldiers killed or captured - their best soldiers, so they've ordered an orderly retreat, a withdrawal, before the battle starts and shit gets real.
Repercussions for this: if Russia can't even defend and hold Kherson with Dnipro bridges blown they won't be able to retake it. It takes 2x to 3x the attackers as defenders to assault a city and they'd have to get across the river somehow. They couldn't even get supplies across the river to mount a defense.
Also, if they don't have Kherson they can't take Odessa. So this @falseprophet09 bullshit about Russia taking the gloves off and finally crushing all of Ukraine can be set aside. Also, Ukraine announced they are mobilizing another 200k, so for Russia to take and hold Ukraine right now would require 1.8 million to 2.7 million troops and far more equipment than they have. Not gonna happen.
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GuerillaPete
Member
Ukraine took back Kherson !
I see the pro-Russia posters in this thread have gotten very quiet over the past few days and it's probably because Kherson was taken by the Ukrainians, a city of 200,000 people and the only regional city Russia managed to capture in their offensive.
Ukraine: Putin claims he ‘shares pain’ of troops’ mothers - live
President meets women ahead of Russia’s Mother’s Day
So, Russia redeployed soldiers from the Kharkiv front to bolster Kherson and keep this from happening. That led to the Kharkiv rout and Russia's mobilization. It happened anyway. In Kherson supply routes were cut off, bridges blown, they were low on supplies, the Russians had the Dnipro river to their back and if they were defeated they would lose 30,000 soldiers killed or captured - their best soldiers, so they've ordered an orderly retreat, a withdrawal, before the battle starts and shit gets real.
View attachment 175367
Repercussions for this: if Russia can't even defend and hold Kherson with Dnipro bridges blown they won't be able to retake it. It takes 2x to 3x the attackers as defenders to assault a city and they'd have to get across the river somehow. They couldn't even get supplies across the river to mount a defense.
Also, if they don't have Kherson they can't take Odessa. So this @falseprophet09 bullshit about Russia taking the gloves off and finally crushing all of Ukraine can be set aside. Also, Ukraine announced they are mobilizing another 200k, so for Russia to take and hold Ukraine right now would require 1.8 million to 2.7 million troops and far more equipment than they have. Not gonna happen.
You're really one ignorant POS and impetuous petty motherfukker.
There are no pro Russia people posting here. Just anti war and human suffering people.
You're like a little kid cheering on a goddamn train wreck happening in slow motion.
All while men far better than you are dying by the thousands.
