Any other heavy lifters finding that volume training is (arguably) better?

[Jpmerr2021]

Yeah I know this is controversial and will rub people up the wrong way, especially the big alphas who call anybody who volume trains a pussy… hear me out.

I have trained heavy for years to failure, I got my biggest inspiration from blood and guts by Dorian Yates and I don’t deny it put serious size on me… But it has also given me some pretty rough injuries and joint problems.

I have always occasionally chucked in some high rep/volume work but in the last year or so I have become more of a high volume trainer, probably 80% of my training now is high volume and I rarely go to failure (unless I really am trying to push it/increase strength) and tbh… I am gaining, not only am I gaining but I am gaining without any injuries and I am getting some of the best pumps of my life.

Maybe it’s an age thing but looking back I definitely ego lifted a lot of the time and put my body under unnecessary stress.

Anybody else found themselves doing more volume in the later years of lifting?

 

[MFAAS]

Both have their benefits and place. Bithbhave different injury risks, you can still injure yourself pushing put high rep lower weight. I think incorporating both into training is very important especially over time. My training I switch back and forth between strength and rep. When bulking I often like to do PPLPPL rest and the first 3 are high red and the second 3 are heavy weight low red.

That said, if injured or recovering from injury, it is certainly much easier to keep solid form when not lifting as heavy. But Again, once you're 10-12 reps deep on deadlifts or squats, you may very well have your form break down to the point where you pull something or strain a muscle and that is not fun.

Imo it makes total sense that, if you primarily always trained strength, you'll see a burst of growth when you switch to higher volume. I am very curious how long that additional growth will last!

 

[eery]

Both have their benefits and place. Bithbhave different injury risks, you can still injure yourself pushing put high rep lower weight. I think incorporating both into training is very important especially over time. My training I switch back and forth between strength and rep. When bulking I often like to do PPLPPL rest and the first 3 are high red and the second 3 are heavy weight low red.

That said, if injured or recovering from injury, it is certainly much easier to keep solid form when not lifting as heavy. But Again, once you're 10-12 reps deep on deadlifts or squats, you may very well have your form break down to the point where you pull something or strain a muscle and that is not fun.

Imo it makes total sense that, if you primarily always trained strength, you'll see a burst of growth when you switch to higher volume. I am very curious how long that additional growth will last!

so your definition of high volume is higher reps? I dont think thats how most people define it. They define high volume as weekly sets within the 4-6 to 6-30 "hypertropy rep" range.

 

[MR_Midas]

Yeah I know this is controversial and will rub people up the wrong way, especially the big alphas who call anybody who volume trains a pussy… hear me out.

I have trained heavy for years to failure, I got my biggest inspiration from blood and guts by Dorian Yates and I don’t deny it put serious size on me… But it has also given me some pretty rough injuries and joint problems.

I have always occasionally chucked in some high rep/volume work but in the last year or so I have become more of a high volume trainer, probably 80% of my training now is high volume and I rarely go to failure (unless I really am trying to push it/increase strength) and tbh… I am gaining, not only am I gaining but I am gaining without any injuries and I am getting some of the best pumps of my life.

Maybe it’s an age thing but looking back I definitely ego lifted a lot of the time and put my body under unnecessary stress.

Anybody else found themselves doing more volume in the later years of lifting?

I don’t know, before covid, how I got sick. Every year I did high volumes and there was progress in both volume of training, and weights and in hypertrophy. I liked how smoothly everything grew.

 

[MR_Midas]

Both have their benefits and place. Bithbhave different injury risks, you can still injure yourself pushing put high rep lower weight. I think incorporating both into training is very important especially over time. My training I switch back and forth between strength and rep. When bulking I often like to do PPLPPL rest and the first 3 are high red and the second 3 are heavy weight low red.

That said, if injured or recovering from injury, it is certainly much easier to keep solid form when not lifting as heavy. But Again, once you're 10-12 reps deep on deadlifts or squats, you may very well have your form break down to the point where you pull something or strain a muscle and that is not fun.

Imo it makes total sense that, if you primarily always trained strength, you'll see a burst of growth when you switch to higher volume. I am very curious how long that additional growth will last!

I like to alternate between volume training and powerlifting-style strength training. When I train in the powerlifting style, I increase carbohydrates and proteins and I get stronger and recover better. And I want to do big weights and it's a storm of emotions. Then I reduce proteins and carbohydrates and switch to small weights, but I work 15-25 repetitions. And it's a thrill.

 

[MR_Midas]

so your definition of high volume is higher reps? I dont think thats how most people define it. They define high volume as weekly sets within the 4-6 to 6-30 "hypertropy rep" range.

Also, for powerlifters, volumes can be determined in the number of kilograms lifted = total tons

 

[MFAAS]

Also, for powerlifters, volumes can be determined in the number of kilograms lifted = total tons

Exactly, volume is not equivalent to higher reps alone.

@eery Volume is the combination of weight lifting, reps per set and total sets. You could increase volume supply by adding an extra set or two. Or you could do it by adding reps or weight. Or both!

 

[eery]

Exactly, volume is not equivalent to higher reps alone.

@eery Volume is the combination of weight lifting, reps per set and total sets. You could increase volume supply by adding an extra set or two. Or you could do it by adding reps or weight. Or both!

im aware, im talking about the way its usually defined by most people in the lifting/fitness/bodybuilding space. Training volume is usually simplified down to number of sets for simplicity's sake.

Generally sets with 0-3 reps in reserve is in the 6-30 rep range is counted as a workingset according to all the evidence based hypertrophy geeks. I know what you are talking about though.

 

[MFAAS]

im aware, im talking about the way its usually defined by most people in the lifting/fitness/bodybuilding space. Training volume is usually simplified down to number of sets for simplicity's sake.

Generally sets with 0-3 reps in reserve is in the 6-30 rep range is counted as a workingset according to all the evidence based hypertrophy geeks. I know what you are talking about though.

Yeah I find that way too simplistic and really dislike that approach, personally. I would much rather have more variables to tinkerbwith to get the workout and results I want. Dumbing it down to only adding an extra set is just not productive for maximizing results IMO.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

If you’re paying attention you’ve noticed a lot of top bodybuilders are incorporating progressive overload, training to failure as their primary training scheme. Pure volume IMO “works” for every few people if it’s the primary.

The argument had here is not about volume and load as factors but at the primary driver of adaptation. Regardless of your approach, the “other” variable should always matter as well. But I think most guys will find that a focus on progressive overload via loading to failure inside of 6-15 rep ranges will work better than volume schemes of 3-4 sets on a bunch of movements with reps in reserve. Imo also far easier to gauge and progress to-failure PO training vs volume.

What’s “best” depends on your situation, of course. If injures prevent straight sets to failure then a volume approach being your default makes sense.

 

[Demondosage]

Absolutely. Time under tension wins and if you are a guy who only focuses on getting stronger and stronger your gym days are numbered injury free anyways

 

[Demondosage]

It took me getting injured to realize that too btw. I had to start from square 1 again and train lighter and more volume, some exercises I had to avoid altogether. And then 3 years later I’m still getting comments on how I’m looking better and better, I look back at all the super heavy shit thinking ,”WHY?”

 

[Jpmerr2021]

Absolutely. Time under tension wins and if you are a guy who only focuses on getting stronger and stronger your gym days are numbered injury free anyways

This is something I wish I realised earlier on… The absolute obsession with getting retard strong was just plain stupid in the end, I never had any intention of becoming a massive bloat lord powerlifter yet I seemed determined to train like one.

 

[Jpmerr2021]

It took me getting injured to realize that too btw. I had to start from square 1 again and train lighter and more volume, some exercises I had to avoid altogether. And then 3 years later I’m still getting comments on how I’m looking better and better, I look back at all the super heavy shit thinking ,”WHY?”

Shit dude are you me??

Seriously though, this is exactly how it went for me, had a pretty nasty injury which was completely avoidable but you know… Gotta impress all the big bald muscled men in the gym with my bench you know (cos women never see you bench and are not impressed)

Was out of action for a good year and had to start again lighter with more volume. Loving it

Don’t get me wrong, I do push it occasionally to failure on a heavy set if the mood takes me or I want to increase strength but it’s now become a choice for me rather than an ABSOLUTE MUST DO OBSESSION

 

[MR_Midas]

Exactly, volume is not equivalent to higher reps alone.

@eery Volume is the combination of weight lifting, reps per set and total sets. You could increase volume supply by adding an extra set or two. Or you could do it by adding reps or weight. Or both!

Yes, you are right. Training volume is a concept that includes the number of repetitions and approaches, as well as, of course, the weight of the barbell. And these values can be skillfully managed and create work that will lead to different work and, in the end, to the result, if you plan and cycle correctly. I like to develop the adaptive abilities of the body and change the training rhythm in cycles.

 

[FH93]

I started watching Seth Feroce again recently and I absolutely love volume training, but I can only get a lot of volume on my push days as on pull or leg days, I gas out way faster, so I end up doing less workload overall as a result, so I train heavier on pull and leg days, and high volume on push days.

I even optimized a DIY pre workout for pump training and it's dope as fuck. The pumps are incredible, although we'll see how they stay that way once I'm back off the blast.

 

[MR_Midas]

I also like more voluminous workouts. Although they are psychologically more difficult for me, the sensations of muscular recoil are subjectively greater.

 

[eery]

I started watching Seth Feroce again recently and I absolutely love volume training, but I can only get a lot of volume on my push days as on pull or leg days, I gas out way faster, so I end up doing less workload overall as a result, so I train heavier on pull and leg days, and high volume on push days.

I even optimized a DIY pre workout for pump training and it's dope as fuck. The pumps are incredible, although we'll see how they stay that way once I'm back off the blast.

yeah, whats that preworkout?

 

[FH93]

12g Citrulline Malate (Boost nitrogen uptake)

6g Beta Alanine (boosts performance, but moreso if supplemented daily)

10g Taurine (for painful pumps)

175mg Niacin (flush version, also known as nicotinic acid, increases blood flow and vascularity. If you take a dose like this or higher, you may feel like you're being locked at by fire, but it's fine, just uncomfortable. I like the feeling though)

30ml Vegetable Glycerin (Superhydrates the muscles, gives you a much stronger pump although as a result decreases visible vascularity)

10g Beetroot Powder (Very high in nitrogen so works well with citrulline malate. It seems to bloat me and give me gas, so I don't often take this now)

100mg caffiene pill if I need it.

About half way through the workout as it usually lasts around 1.5-1.75 hours, I start drinking my intra workout to keep glycogen levels full. 50g dextrose and 30g protein powder.

The preworkout doesn't taste amazing, but it's fine.

 

[Nolij]

I used to do lots of volume. 6-7 exercises muscle group. Now I focus on 4 exercises per muscle groups, 6-12 reps with high intensity and I see more improvements