HGH, peptides, and AAS for surgery recovery

[Hughinn]

I mean i think low doses is fine, but from all my research into it, steroids will not help you heal injuries, and high doses might even make it worse.

Prp/stem cells/hgh shows more promise.

Consider starting hgh one month before surgery, it takes time to ramp up igf1.

I started at 3 iu and increased 0.2 iu per week, worked well to mitigate sides

I sort of disagree here.

On one hand, with a bone/tendon injury, I would think nano like deca or npp could be very helpful for healing and recovery.

I do agree therapudic amounts should be used and not blast or bodybuilding doses.

 

[theotherguy]

Do your own research. As I wrote previously, there are several peer reviewed studies on AAS and collagen synthesis….nanadrolone, winstrol and anavar, well past “anecdotal stories.” Don’t just solicit info from other board members, put some work in your own research. It’s all out there.

So just did a little more reading, and it appears that nandrolone works well for muscle injuries, but, best case scenario nandrolone does nothing for ligament/tendon repairs. More reading is needed. And I need to make sure I have a clear picture of what is damaged before I make my decision

 

[Hughinn]

So just did a little more reading, and it appears that nandrolone works well for muscle injuries, but, best case scenario nandrolone does nothing for ligament/tendon repairs. More reading is needed. And I need to make sure I have a clear picture of what is damaged before I make my decision

Nano also does very well in rebuilding joint tissues and surfaces.

I can't see a scenario where therapudic doses wouldn't be of some benifit in recovery.

I've got a broken ankle right now. Just had surgery a few days ago.

I'm going to do some NPP of somewhere around 100mg or less. Like maybe 80 mg a week for the six weeks I'm casted and see how it goes.

 

[Bumpygooch]

So just did a little more reading, and it appears that nandrolone works well for muscle injuries, but, best case scenario nandrolone does nothing for ligament/tendon repairs. More reading is needed. And I need to make sure I have a clear picture of what is damaged before I make my decision

This is well thought out. It may not directly heal tendon to bone injuries, however, collagen it necessary for that actual repair, so, collagen synthesis is important, obviously. Read the study about anavar post rotator cuff surgery currently being conducted at USC.

 

[Bumpygooch]

I have done some and I intend to do more, that’s why I said I was still collecting info. Reading is hard for me right now because I’m dealing with a pretty severe case of central serous retinopathy in my right eye right now. So cliff notes are much easier for me to digest at this point.

That sounds unfortunate, sorry to hear. Let me know if I can be of assistance.

 

[theotherguy]

That sounds unfortunate, sorry to hear. Let me know if I can be of assistance.

Eh, it's no one's fault but my own. I really fucked myself up at my last strongman competition. Both the eye and the lat/rotator cuff issue came from the same competition.

 

[Bumpygooch]

Eh, it's no one's fault but my own. I really fucked myself up at my last strongman competition. Both the eye and the lat/rotator cuff issue came from the same competition.

Sounds like you may to regroup. I’ve had to totally change the way I train after exploding my shoulder. Plans have done a 180.

 

[hghlover]

I sort of disagree here.

On one hand, with a bone/tendon injury, I would think nano like deca or npp could be very helpful for healing and recovery.

I do agree therapudic amounts should be used and not blast or bodybuilding doses.

Yea it might be beneficial in small therapeutic doses.. I just don't know tho.. you've used it succesfully like that?

 

[Type-IIx]

Injuries are a bitch, and I hate seeing these threads and not being able to chime in with something clear and positive, but it's just not as straightforwards as a compound increasing collagen synthesis = good. There's a lot more to the complex processes of healing, and honestly, our body is kind of great at it.

There's some good evidence of anabolics like anavar in burn patients' recoveries, but that's a lot different from a soft tissue or ligamentous injury. I don't know. Of all the anabolics, nandrolone, and of all the peptides, rhGH, seem good for healthy tissue growth (with the caveat that nandrolone also increases LVH/leads to myocardial infarction likely by the same pathways, and GH likely to overall organ growth by the same pathways)... but that's not injured tissue.

Tough pill to swallow for all of us, is time off, good physical therapy, and nutrition, are probably the best bets for a good recovery. Otherwise, modern medicine would be using anabolics if they were a good choice already I think.

@Bumpygooch I am interested in the study you mentioned though, if you have a link. It's ongoing so no results yet right?

 

[hghlover]

Injuries are a bitch, and I hate seeing these threads and not being able to chime in with something clear and positive, but it's just not as straightforwards as a compound increasing collagen synthesis = good. There's a lot more to the complex processes of healing, and honestly, our body is kind of great at it.

There's some good evidence of anabolics like anavar in burn patients' recoveries, but that's a lot different from a soft tissue or ligamentous injury. I don't know. Of all the anabolics, nandrolone, and of all the peptides, rhGH, seem good for healthy tissue growth (with the caveat that nandrolone also increases LVH/leads to myocardial infarction likely by the same pathways, and GH likely to overall organ growth by the same pathways)... but that's not injured tissue.

Tough pill to swallow for all of us, is time off, good physical therapy, and nutrition, are probably the best bets for a good recovery. Otherwise, modern medicine would be using anabolics if they were a good choice already I think.

@Bumpygooch I am interested in the study you mentioned though, if you have a link. It's ongoing so no results yet right?

Good stuff

 

[malfeasance]

There are studies in animals like rabbits with nandrolone (and others).

Off the top of my head, memory only, could be wrong, my take away was that it speeded healing, but there were concerns over "brittleness" for lack of a better word.

I did not come away thinking this was a slam dunk positive do it.

 

[theotherguy]

There are studies in animals like rabbits with nandrolone (and others).

Off the top of my head, memory only, could be wrong, my take away was that it speeded healing, but there were concerns over "brittleness" for lack of a better word.

I did not come away thinking this was a slam dunk positive do it.

I have been reading tons of conflicting information. I read one study that reviewed all of the previous studies and the new study said they could not conclude brittleness based on the previous studies, and that there was still too many unknowns to draw any conclusions, for or against AAS use for recovery.

From what I read yesterday though, your memory is correct

 

[Hughinn]

Yea it might be beneficial in small therapeutic doses.. I just don't know tho.. you've used it succesfully like that?

I haven't before.
I have used nano to help with joint pains and arthritis with success.

But I recently broke my ankle very badly. I just got about 20 screws and a steel plate put in it last Monday and I'm considering a therapudic doses to see if it helps heal.
Maybe 80 or 60mg week.

I just started last weekend. 12mg daily. Of NPP.

We'll see how it goes.

 

[theotherguy]

I haven't before.
I have used nano to help with joint pains and arthritis with success.

But I recently broke my ankle very badly. I just got about 20 screws and a steel plate put in it last Monday and I'm considering a therapudic doses to see if it helps heal.
Maybe 80 or 60mg week.

I just started last weekend. 12mg daily. Of NPP.

We'll see how it goes.

I have not looked into peptides for bone repair, but it would seem peptides might be a better bet than nandrolone for bone repair

 

[Bumpygooch]

There are studies in animals like rabbits with nandrolone (and others).

Off the top of my head, memory only, could be wrong, my take away was that it speeded healing, but there were concerns over "brittleness" for lack of a better word.

I did not come away thinking this was a slam dunk positive do it.

Winstrol was the most egregious offender for the “brittleness.”

 

[Bumpygooch]

Injuries are a bitch, and I hate seeing these threads and not being able to chime in with something clear and positive, but it's just not as straightforwards as a compound increasing collagen synthesis = good. There's a lot more to the complex processes of healing, and honestly, our body is kind of great at it.

There's some good evidence of anabolics like anavar in burn patients' recoveries, but that's a lot different from a soft tissue or ligamentous injury. I don't know. Of all the anabolics, nandrolone, and of all the peptides, rhGH, seem good for healthy tissue growth (with the caveat that nandrolone also increases LVH/leads to myocardial infarction likely by the same pathways, and GH likely to overall organ growth by the same pathways)... but that's not injured tissue.

Tough pill to swallow for all of us, is time off, good physical therapy, and nutrition, are probably the best bets for a good recovery. Otherwise, modern medicine would be using anabolics if they were a good choice already I think.

@Bumpygooch I am interested in the study you mentioned though, if you have a link. It's ongoing so no results yet right?

@Type-IIx here you are, sir

ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov

 

[Bumpygooch]

I haven't before.
I have used nano to help with joint pains and arthritis with success.

But I recently broke my ankle very badly. I just got about 20 screws and a steel plate put in it last Monday and I'm considering a therapudic doses to see if it helps heal.
Maybe 80 or 60mg week.

I just started last weekend. 12mg daily. Of NPP.

We'll see how it goes.

I used NPP, anavar, GH, and peptides, as well as doxycycline(not for infection, either, offhand I forget which pathway it helped with)to recover from my shoulder surgery. Surgeon said the lack of atrophy was stunning(I also trained the good arm the same as usual, there is a crossover theory). Problem is, I used so much shit, I don’t know which worked.

 

[Type-IIx]

@Type-IIx here you are, sir

ClinicalTrials.gov

clinicaltrials.gov

Clinical trials, excellent! Thank you brother.

 

[malfeasance]

Clinical trials, excellent! Thank you brother.

Reading that, though, I wonder if a benefit is shown, is it any different from a benefit that might be derived from 100-200mg a week of testosterone?



"Rotator cuff tears are currently one of the most common causes of musculoskeletal pain and disability; the biologic sequelae of a chronic tear are muscle atrophy, fatty infiltration, and intercellular fibrosis of the torn muscle-tendon unit. Recently, researchers have attempted to address the biologic sequelae of chronic rotator cuff tearing with animal studies examining the effects of anabolic steroids on rotator cuff healing, demonstrating that when administered as an adjuvant to rotator cuff repair, anabolic steroids can halt fatty infiltration, decrease muscle atrophy, and promote healing."

It seems any steroid might have these benefits, and that there is nothing particularly special about anavar, or we won't know even after the study if there is anything particularly special about anavar that some other steroid could replace with ease (especially for males).

Any downside to a year of anavar for females? I think they should record their soprano singing voices prior to administration and then have them sing the same song 18 months later. I predict no sopranos, lots of contraltos, and even some tenors.

 

[Type-IIx]

Reading that, though, I wonder if a benefit is shown, is it any different from a benefit that might be derived from 100-200mg a week of testosterone?



"Rotator cuff tears are currently one of the most common causes of musculoskeletal pain and disability; the biologic sequelae of a chronic tear are muscle atrophy, fatty infiltration, and intercellular fibrosis of the torn muscle-tendon unit. Recently, researchers have attempted to address the biologic sequelae of chronic rotator cuff tearing with animal studies examining the effects of anabolic steroids on rotator cuff healing, demonstrating that when administered as an adjuvant to rotator cuff repair, anabolic steroids can halt fatty infiltration, decrease muscle atrophy, and promote healing."

It seems any steroid might have these benefits, and that there is nothing particularly special about anavar, or we won't know even after the study if there is anything particularly special about anavar that some other steroid could replace with ease (especially for males).

Any downside to a year of anavar for females? I think they should record their soprano singing voices prior to administration and then have them sing the same song 18 months later. I predict no sopranos, lots of contraltos, and even some tenors.

I believe you're correct with regard to T being a potent anabolic and androgen with efficacy for the hypothetical benefits. I would suppose the benefit of var comes from the fact that patient compliance is high with an oral, it's only mildly androgenic, has a somewhat weak potency for the AR (and thus, some of the downstream consequences of AR activation may be mitigated), it has a short elimination half-life, so it can be stopped abruptly at sign of liver/lipid/virilization concerns.

Something that does stand out to me as a concern, though. They do not address whether anabolics may halt fibrosis, and that's always been the very concern in my mind when I think about their use in injury. If the muscle must undergo myogenesis and that myocyte is differentiated towards fibrotic tissue, then the anabolic is just going to increase injured tissue worsening prognosis. Just from the passage you posted. I still have to read the paper.