“What counts in powerlifting “ General Population view on powerlifting

[Worf]

So I’ve followed powerlifting since the early 2000’s and then it was big bald guys in bench shirts and squat suits. The shift towards raw began around 2008-2010 and Now there’s a lot of people in all the weight classes for 52kg to 140kg + and all the categories of equipment (mostly Raw). So the most common thing I see from detractors is that the big bench arches “don’t count” and that sumo deadlift is “cheating”. Does anyone else see this trend? Of course you won’t encounter it in a powerlifting gym but go somewhere like anytime fitness and you get people say these things.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

So I’ve followed powerlifting since the early 2000’s and then it was big bald guys in bench shirts and squat suits. The shift towards raw began around 2008-2010 and Now there’s a lot of people in all the weight classes for 52kg to 140kg + and all the categories of equipment (mostly Raw). So the most common thing I see from detractors is that the big bench arches “don’t count” and that sumo deadlift is “cheating”. Does anyone else see this trend? Of course you won’t encounter it in a powerlifting gym but go somewhere like anytime fitness and you get people say these things.

TBH
I think most PL guys dont like the CRAZY arches.
When someone is newr h3nding themself in half to achieve a 3 inch range of motion, it's a bit silly.
I arch... but just to get the weight to sit over my upper back, if I'm wearing a loose tank, youd think I wasnt arching at all

You dont want my opinion on Sumo... because that's my lift lmao
But in my defense, I lift similar to Browner, where my stance isnt particularly wide.

That seems to be a trend I've been seeing as well.... kind of a half Sumo, where there is still a solid distance for the knees to bend

 

[Eman]

Arches and sumo aren't cheating. Know how I know that? There is nothing being broken in the rulebook when they do that. People are just using every advantage within the rules... And leave it to athletes to exploit every last little bit of advantage out of the rules.

I'll also say, getting a good arch is way harder than it looks. Everyone should attempt to get some arch for good technique but some folks are able to really push that to the limit... Shortening the range of motion is only half of it, being able to turn the lift into a decline angle is where you can really put up the weight.

And sumo, I don't like sumo... But, I don't like it because it's too technical for me. I'd rather pull conventional because if I fuck up on my technique, I can muscle through it. You can't muscle through a fucked up sumo technique, it's way easier to mess up. Way harder to perfect. I don't like committing to anything that needs to be pretty much perfect... And it looks like cheating because that's how easy the top tier make it look. Basketball doesn't look that hard when you watch Jordan play, right?

 

[Btcowboy]

I agree it tends to be outsiders for the most part calling it cheating. I have been working on my arch and can finally get an ok one now, been using a 3 inch pvc pipe to help this. I have always been a conventional deadlifter and only in this offseason have I switched to Sumo to see if I am any stronger. I agree with @Eman that it is way more technical

 

[Test_Subject]

The arch thing I have mixed feelings about. It’s legal, yes, and I get that it’s a part of the technique, but some of the women arch to the point that their ROM is literally half of a full bench press.

Sumo I don’t care about. I can’t sumo for shit, so people who say that it’s easier or “cheating” are out to lunch. It’s no different than using a super wide grip to bench IMO.

 

[janoshik]

You can't muscle through a fucked up sumo technique

Watch me!

 

[Worf]

TBH
I think most PL guys dont like the CRAZY arches.
When someone is newr h3nding themself in half to achieve a 3 inch range of motion, it's a bit silly.
I arch... but just to get the weight to sit over my upper back, if I'm wearing a loose tank, youd think I wasnt arching at all

You dont want my opinion on Sumo... because that's my lift lmao
But in my defense, I lift similar to Browner, where my stance isnt particularly wide.

That seems to be a trend I've been seeing as well.... kind of a half Sumo, where there is still a solid distance for the knees to bend

Nothing new about that, Ed Coan was doin that 30 years ago. I don’t think sumo is particularly easy compared with conventional. It just work for some. There is an amount of hip mobility required to be good with it and not everyone has it.

 

[Worf]

I agree it tends to be outsiders for the most part calling it cheating. I have been working on my arch and can finally get an ok one now, been using a 3 inch pvc pipe to help this. I have always been a conventional deadlifter and only in this offseason have I switched to Sumo to see if I am any stronger. I agree with @Eman that it is way more technical

Yea I’m not totally sure why it’s such a big point of contention. You got every clown on social media that’s a program seller saying these things like “that bench doesn’t count “ or “oh my lord that’s dangerous, there ought to be a rule against that”. I guess social media has given the casual gym goer a voice in the powerlifting community now. Yes which is only good if they actually get involved with the sport. Just seems to run their mouths like they’re judges and don’t have the damn mind to open up the rule book of any federation. Or even compete in a sanctioned meet.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

Yea I’m not totally sure why it’s such a big point of contention. You got every clown on social media that’s a program seller saying these things like “that bench doesn’t count “ or “oh my lord that’s dangerous, there ought to be a rule against that”. I guess social media has given the casual gym goer a voice in the powerlifting community now. Yes which is only good if they actually get involved with the sport. Just seems to run their mouths like they’re judges and don’t have the damn mind to open up the rule book of any federation. Or even compete in a sanctioned meet.

For sure
I think the CRAZY arch is a bit silly to watch
But it's legit.
That simple

 

[Perrin Aybara]

I guess social media has given the casual gym goer a voice in the powerlifting community now.

This is exactly what it is. A bunch of people that don't compete and/or don't even lift enough to have earned an opinion commenting like they know what they're talking about. The USPA Facebook group used to be decent and it's basically trash now because of this. Guess it's inevitable with anything that gets popular.

 

[Eman]

“oh my lord that’s dangerous, there ought to be a rule against that”

Lol I follow Marissa Inda on IG... She has a solid arch and not even extreme at all, it's cringey to read through her IG comments. She's a fucking international competitor... And there's yahoos on her comment section trying to give her bench pointers and telling her to stop arching before she hurts herself. If it's not that, it's saying she's cheating because she has a shorter ROM because she has tits and the bar doesn't have to go as far down. It's unreal how weird people get.

 

[Brandaddy]

The only people I've seen complain about bench arches typically can't even comp bench 3 plates. So I really don't care what they have to say about the lift because they suck at it. Lol. Besides, it's not even as much the arch as the unnecessarily wide grip. If these people just moved their hands to slightly outside shoulders their ROM would almost double.

Sumo deadlift also typically only gets shit on by people that don't even do it. Kind of hard to take anyone serious who hasn't even tried it. Especially considering they typically lift about half what they thought they could their first time trying. Lol.

TLDR: People are just ignorant assholes who are too quick to judge something they have no knowledge about and shit on things they're secretly jealous of.

Before we know it they'll probably have a RAW RAW division where you can't even wear a belt or wrist wraps, belt holding you to the bench, only conventional deadlifts.

 

[Worf]

The only people I've seen complain about bench arches typically can't even comp bench 3 plates. So I really don't care what they have to say about the lift because they suck at it. Lol. Besides, it's not even as much the arch as the unnecessarily wide grip. If these people just moved their hands to slightly outside shoulders their ROM would almost double.

Sumo deadlift also typically only gets shit on by people that don't even do it. Kind of hard to take anyone serious who hasn't even tried it. Especially considering they typically lift about half what they thought they could their first time trying. Lol.

TLDR: People are just ignorant assholes who are too quick to judge something they have no knowledge about and shit on things they're secretly jealous of.

Before we know it they'll probably have a RAW RAW division where you can't even wear a belt or wrist wraps, belt holding you to the bench, only conventional deadlifts.

They actually have shit like that. It’s typically charity events where the judging is very loose. Basically TNG bench where heaving is allowed and conventional deadlift where straps and hitches are allowed. A gym I used to frequent would do these 2-3 times a year. The 11 people that watched this event are the ones saying Marisa Inda doesn’t know how to bench. Or Dan Griggs is cheating at deadlift.

 

[Test_Subject]

They actually have shit like that. It’s typically charity events where the judging is very loose. Basically TNG bench where heaving is allowed and conventional deadlift where straps hitches are allowed. A gym I used to do these 2-3 times a year. The 11 people that watched this event are the ones saying Marisa Inda doesn’t know how to bench.

Sounds terrible. Hitching a deadlift is unforgivable. Just put it down and avoid the embarrassment.

 

[Worf]

Sounds terrible. Hitching a deadlift is unforgivable. Just put it down and avoid the embarrassment.

They see it in strong man and think it’s ok

 

[wsmwannabe]

In my opinion, I couldn't care less about sumo deadlifting. If it was cheating, it wouldn't be allowed or would have it's own division. In strongman, pretty much the only damn rule is no sumo deadlifting. Problem solved.

With respect to the arching, I don't really care about that either, UNLESS you've got a dude that is arching so far that his ROM is literally 2-3 inches. Sure it's not breaking the rules, but it is certainly against the spirit of the rules, which I believe maintaining the spirit of the rules is as important as enforcing the rules.

I'm talking about this ridiculous shit. Even with the bar on his chest, it doesn't appear there is any bend in his elbows. I think if the upper arm doesn't go to parallel with the ground, then it's not a full bench press. Just like there is a specific squat depth, there should be a specific bench depth. Maybe the rule could be written as the elbow joint need to be even with or sink below the midline of the delt. I'm sure someone else might have a better suggestion, but that's the best I can come up with on the spot.

 

[Worf]

I’m of the opinion that the bench arch stuff is fine if all the other rules are met. I don’t really think twisting ones self into a pretzel and having a 3” bench rom is impressive but it is within the rules. Tbh the majority of the big bench archers are
Females and light weight men who don’t bench much to begin with. Obviously the above is cringe but I just can’t see the solution is a depth call for bench. It’s already complicated enough with the SHW’s and calling squat depth.

Feet flat rule would mostly eliminate big bench arches but kinda discriminatory towards some of the bigger folks without great mobility

 

[Silentlemon1011]

In my opinion, I couldn't care less about sumo deadlifting. If it was cheating, it wouldn't be allowed or would have it's own division. In strongman, pretty much the only damn rule is no sumo deadlifting. Problem solved.

With respect to the arching, I don't really care about that either, UNLESS you've got a dude that is arching so far that his ROM is literally 2-3 inches. Sure it's not breaking the rules, but it is certainly against the spirit of the rules, which I believe maintaining the spirit of the rules is as important as enforcing the rules.

I'm talking about this ridiculous shit. Even with the bar on his chest, it doesn't appear there is any bend in his elbows. I think if the upper arm doesn't go to parallel with the ground, then it's not a full bench press. Just like there is a specific squat depth, there should be a specific bench depth. Maybe the rule could be written as the elbow joint need to be even with or sink below the midline of the delt. I'm sure someone else might have a better suggestion, but that's the best I can come up with on the spot.

View attachment 150882

Yeah,
Cringey
But at the end of the day, do what you have to do to get it done I guess.

 

[wsmwannabe]

I’m of the opinion that the bench arch stuff is fine if all the other rules are met. I don’t really think twisting ones self into a pretzel and having a 3” bench rom is impressive but it is within the rules. Tbh the majority of the big bench archers are
Females and light weight men who don’t bench much to begin with. Obviously the above is cringe but I just can’t see the solution is a depth call for bench. It’s already complicated enough with the SHW’s and calling squat depth.

Feet flat rule would mostly eliminate big bench arches but kinda discriminatory towards some of the bigger folks without great mobility

Yeah,
Cringey
But at the end of the day, do what you have to do to get it done I guess.

Obviously the guy is lifting within the rules, so I’m not arguing that. But I do believe it is against the spirit of the rules to shorten the range of motion to such a high degree. I’m sure when the rules were written, it was never envisioned that dudes would be getting a 2-3 inch ROM and that generally speaking everyone would performing more or less a full ROM bench.

BUT IIRC, Ed Coan would put the bar so low on his back that he essentially changed the ROM of his squat (actual distance the weight was moved) so much they made a rule against ultra low bar squatting. Why not do the same with bench? It’s one thing to maximize leverages, it’s a completely different thing to contort your body to the point of essentially eliminating 80% of the work done.

 

[NovaFlex]

So I’ve followed powerlifting since the early 2000’s and then it was big bald guys in bench shirts and squat suits. The shift towards raw began around 2008-2010 and Now there’s a lot of people in all the weight classes for 52kg to 140kg + and all the categories of equipment (mostly Raw). So the most common thing I see from detractors is that the big bench arches “don’t count” and that sumo deadlift is “cheating”. Does anyone else see this trend? Of course you won’t encounter it in a powerlifting gym but go somewhere like anytime fitness and you get people say these things.

See it online all the time. Although it’s within the rules, I do see a hugely exaggerated arch as ridiculous—it’s not a show of strength. Gay grip—I mean Sumo—is still a show of strength. But a 2” bench ROM is barely a 3 board lol