lacking shoulders - What helped you grow them when they werent?

Volume is just one variable and should be weighed against what you can recover from. Inside of that you can progress load and reps (in a small range) without adjusting volume hardly at all. Be interested to see what you’re basing 4 weeks off of. I’m not saying every 4 weeks is bad, but I don’t think there’s any hard rules here. Always up for someone doin’ me an educate.

If you're adjusting reps, you're probably adjusting volume... Unless the small range just means you're not really adjusting them by much.

My point was mostly that you can either go in and do say 10 total sets between two exercises and rotate the exercises after deloads or you could do 10 total sets between 10 exercises and never rotate them so you get real good at them. The latter seems pretty silly but without the rotation I guess that's what you'd have to do because you can't do 30 sets week after week and increase intensity over time because you'd never recover from it. Thus, a smaller variety with a reasonable rotation frequency makes more sense. Every workout is too frequent imo.

And, you're right... I just kind of threw 4 weeks out there since that's a pretty standard time between training cycles but there's no hard fast rule about it. I will say though, the more advanced a lifter you are, the more likely you'd need it to be every 4 weeks because you'd need to back volume off by then... A novice lifter shouldn't need it as often because they aren't lifting the same intensity (heavy weight) as an advanced lifter... And if an advanced lifter doesn't need it, they probably aren't lifting very hard because you'd have to accumulate fatigue somewhere.
 
So just for full clarity, here’s how my training “cycles” go now:
-number of failure sets per days stays around 8-12 depending on number of muscle groups worked that day, typically 4-6 movements, 2 failure sets each. Going over 12 per day or under 8 per day i typically leave to feel; right now during prep I may remove failure sets as needed. Deep into a bulk with plenty of food I may add more.
-rep ranges are 6-8 at minimum and 10-12 maximum on the first failure set on each movement, the second failure set is a back off set with 25%ish less weight aiming for more reps to failure than the first set
-end of every workout is 2-4 sets of pump/metabolic work (supersets, drop sets, etc) short of failure
-movements only leave if I work myself near a nagging injury (rare) or progress stops (>2 training cycles stagnant)
-the “deload” I use is simply a switch to volume approach vs heavy failure for a couple weeks
-failure sets are to mechanical failure and as soon as I meet or exceed the upper end of the rep range for that set I add weight and aim to start back at the bottom of the range

per your comment, the variation in reps per movement before upping load is limited to 2-4 reps before adding weight resulting in fewer reps next week. IE aim for 8-10: 8 this week, 9 next week, 11 the next week, add 5% or so and start again at the low end.
 
Big (heavy) presses= big shoulders. I didn't see anybody mention hang clean presses.

maybe because is a stupid excercise .. its a compound movement people do at stupid olympics... if someone wanna develop shoulders could just do the final movement of that silly hang clean press, on a smith machine...

The first stupid part of that stuff has just the purpose to hurt your connective tissue of shoulders...

Its an athletic and technic stuff for people thats into that stuff..
 
maybe because is a stupid excercise .. its a compound movement people do at stupid olympics... if someone wanna develop shoulders could just do the final movement of that silly hang clean press, on a smith machine...

The first stupid part of that stuff has just the purpose to hurt your connective tissue of shoulders...

Its an athletic and technic stuff for people thats into that stuff..
Speak for yourself. They built my shoulders. I'm almost 60 and shoulders are good. Maybe stupid people shouldn't do them? Just a thought.
 
Chris Pratt Trailer GIF by Jurassic World
 
Why..?

Getting strong and perfecting execution on bread and butter movements week in and week out will drive progress far faster than novelty.

I advise the exact opposite. Pick movements that have been around and fit your structure and mechanics and get really fucking good at them. Only change movements when progress stalls or youre bordering on overuse issues (rare if you execute every set and rep well). You will never reach and be able to gauge intensity if you’re doing this muscle confusion shit and guessing at what weight = failure at what rep range.
Each to their own. We all have to travel our own path experience our own journey. However, I learned my concepts from others over the years such that it is anything but a novelty.

Also, I should be more precise. I do not change all exercises out wholesale, I change particulars of an exercise, change the order, swap out different exercises, whatever. I just never do the all same exercises in the same way workout to workout.
 
I've been doing some really heavy side laterals partials I seen john meadows doing. I do sets of 20 super set with front lateral and shrugs. The idea of the heavy side partials is you have more power in the bottom of the movement, upping the reps to 20 gives me a crazy burn. I would also keep the lighter full range in there.
Did this today, then drop set the rack! Dam!!
 
- Barbell Shoulder Press movements
- Dumbbell side raises, seated so that you are less likely to cheat
- Face pulls
- Barbell upright rows

The most important thing is the contraction, not depending on momentum. Also concentrate on the negative part of the reps.
 
Side lateral raises with dumbbells,

1 giant set pyramided up:
5 lb dumbbells x 5 reps, 10lb dumbbells x 10 reps, 15 lb dumbbells x 15 reps, 20 lb dumbbells x 20 reps, 25 lb dumbbells x 25 reps, 30 lb dumbbells x 30 reps, etc etc. I can get about 5 reps into 35's and that's as far as I've gone.

No rest, just run the rack up and the # of lbs = the number of reps. That's the first exercise of the delt workout, all other raises are followed , any pressing movement is last in the routine
 
I wasn’t able to cap my delts until I switched programming to hit delts 2x/week(actually 4, I do rears on pull day). Up to 25 sets/week combine side/rear delts. I have 2 different push days, one is chest focused, the other delt focused, with a heavy press and incline pressing to include more delt work. I think most of this is over thought. Just change your routine, add volume, do them 2x/week if you’re only doing once, etc. I think the exercises are interchangeable, I assume if you’re here, you have an idea what you’re doing as far as that’s concerned. Most importantly, and seemingly implicit by the lack of mention, of course it took this in conjunction with eating my ass off.
 
Up the frequency.
Deltoids, especially lateral head isolation, are a small and easy muscle to recover from session to session.

If you're hitting shoulders twice a week directly up that frequency to 3-4 times
 
Up the frequency.
Deltoids, especially lateral head isolation, are a small and easy muscle to recover from session to session.

If you're hitting shoulders twice a week directly up that frequency to 3-4 times
Shoulders are very easy to over use and injure. I would never recommend to someone to just them day in day out. Muscles don’t grow in the gym they grow when you’re resting. If you’re hitting them 3-4x a week you’re not hitting them hard enough
 
Shoulders are very easy to over use and injure. I would never recommend to someone to just them day in day out. Muscles don’t grow in the gym they grow when you’re resting. If you’re hitting them 3-4x a week you’re not hitting them hard enough
1) You don't overuse muscle, you overuse joints. I am talking about lateral head work. If you get joint pain doing that you're doing it wrong.

2) There is no muscle building going on in the gym, only muscle breakdown. That goes for all muscles, not just shoulders.

3) Muscle size impacts recovery time. Are you suggesting that big muscles like the glutes, latissimus dorsi or quads have the same recovery time as a bicep or rear/lateral delt?

4) Going by point 3, there are muscles that recover in 24h hours. I can do 3 hard sets of biceps on Monday and do 3 more on Tuesday with no real impact on my recovery.

5) More frequency doesn't mean not training hard enough. If you hit lateral delts on Thursday are you still sore on Saturday? I highly doubt that and I would argue that you're not training with as much volume as you could and therefore not training as hard as you think you are or stimulating muscle protein synthesis to the extent you could. Especially if you're enhanced.


EDIT - More in depth explanation basically going by what I tried to illustrate here:

View: https://youtu.be/0ZE74Hc7BOg
 
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1) You don't overuse muscle, you overuse joints. I am talking about lateral head work. If you get joint pain doing that you're doing it wrong.

2) There is no muscle building going on in the gym, only muscle breakdown. That goes for all muscles, not just shoulders.

3) Muscle size impacts recovery time. Are you suggesting that big muscles like the glutes, latissimus dorsi or quads have the same recovery time as a bicep or rear/lateral delt?

4) Going by point 3, there are muscles that recover in 24h hours. I can do 3 hard sets of biceps on Monday and do 3 more on Tuesday with no real impact on my recovery.

5) More frequency doesn't mean not training hard enough. If you hit lateral delts on Thursday are you still sore on Saturday? I highly doubt that and I would argue that you're not training with as much volume as you could and therefore not training as hard as you think you are or stimulating muscle protein synthesis to the extent you could. Especially if you're enhanced.


EDIT - More in depth explanation basically going by what I tried to illustrate here:

View: https://youtu.be/0ZE74Hc7BOg

Well there’s shoulder joint where the humerus meets the scapula. You can easily get over use issues that lead to more serious shoulder problems.
Your point 2 I literally said that dipshit.
i didn’t suggest anything but if you’re training shoulders 4x a week you’re not training them hard enough. Volume is NOT the primary driver of hypertrophy. Those studies literally all show that progressive overload and effort is. Get Mike’s dick out of your mouth. I am enhanced and you doubt it because you’re to worried about an arbitrary rir of doesn’t fucking matter. Volume is needed to make up for lack of effort. Train harder. Get more out of your sets instead of wasting time and energy on more sets. There’s more than just muscles you retard there are joints. Good luck with your rotator cuff in the future.
Stop talking about anything to do with enhanced you have no experience with gear so just stop. How old are you anyway?
 

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