Looking for advice, feedback, maybe a new program.

[TheIncomparableMrHarrow]

I know @Perrin Aybara has looked at my log a bunch of times and figured I would tag him in this post. My log is under the cycle logs and titled “thinking of using deca...” It was pretty much a log of my cycle while using the juggernaut training method. I eventually set some weight and rep PR’s. Granted they weren’t what I was hoping for but PR’s are still PR’s.

I am looking for recommendations or advice regarding programs that people have ran previously with good results. My best lifts that are the most recent are squat 505lbs for a single, 500lbs for a deadlift triple, 365lbs for a bench single, and a single of 225lbs for a strict overhead press. Currently sitting at 201lbs. I have ran 5/3/1 for months at a time(over a year cumulatively) and juggernaut about 4 times I believe.

My goals are to get stronger but at the same time I would love to add a bit more size. I have looked into jailhouse strong programming(purchased a couple of books actually) but I don’t have access to a prowler or sled(I strictly workout from home). The 8x8 off season program really peaked my interests. I also have a bunch of the Matias method books regarding powerlifting and I purchased an RP powerlifting template for hypertrophy, strength, and peaking. I also came across a very simplistic periodization template by Dave Tate but it has nothing in regards to accessory movements.

Any suggestions you can throw my way would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

Might be too advanced for most cookie cutter stuff. My best results I got working with a coach and then tweaking his routine and continuing to run it a couple years. There was also an old generic DUP template that worked fairly well for me. Some guys here like conjugate, but I have no experience with it personally.

As far as accessories upper back should be a staple and anything else rotate in as needed. If you feel like your core strength holds you back on squats hit it or triceps hold you back on bench do them.

 

[TheIncomparableMrHarrow]

@Perrin Aybara thank you for your response. A guy at work does a lot of conjugate stuff and swears by it but he does a lot of stuff using gear(suits/shirts). If I was going to compete anytime soon I would definitely hire a coach but it is just not looking like it is in the cards right now.

My upper back accessory work is based off a Jim Wendler staple which is to do a pulling movement in between every pressing movement. Usually it is a superset of the two or done after all of the pressing work. My main concern, I guess is the percentage work of it all. I have looked up a couple of things last night which is basically what I have already been doing which is the main lift and the accessory lift right after are done heavy and with percentages and the follow up exercises are done bodybuilding style. 3-5 sets of 8-20 reps.

I have ran the juggernaut accessory work as shown in my log and I have also done the Jim Wendler SST method for accessory which is week#1 50/60/70% for only ten reps. Week#2 60/70/80% for 10/8/6 reps and week #3 65/75/85% for 5 reps each. He advises to stop at the prescribed reps. The latter of the two sometimes just feels like it is not enough work.

Going to keep on looking and reading. Hopefully someone chimes in with something good or I happen to stumble across an interesting program somewhere. A lot of “power building” stuff has peaked my interests lately as well. I was thinking of the juggernaut AI power building app but not sure if I want to commit to its monthly costs.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

I don't have much experience with powerbuilding. The way I see it if it doesn't directly improve my squat, bench, and deadlift I'm better off not doing it and recovering better from what I am doing.

I wouldn't get too caught up in the accessories. Target your weak areas, get a good pump going, and call it good. I haven't been doing them lately because of time issues, but I prefer the higher reps like you said, up to 20 and even 30 on some. My bro science belief is the blood flow from a pump like that helps with recovery from heavy lifting and also hits muscle fibers that don't get activated from low reps.

 

[NovaFlex]

I know @Perrin Aybara has looked at my log a bunch of times and figured I would tag him in this post. My log is under the cycle logs and titled “thinking of using deca...” It was pretty much a log of my cycle while using the juggernaut training method. I eventually set some weight and rep PR’s. Granted they weren’t what I was hoping for but PR’s are still PR’s.

I am looking for recommendations or advice regarding programs that people have ran previously with good results. My best lifts that are the most recent are squat 505lbs for a single, 500lbs for a deadlift triple, 365lbs for a bench single, and a single of 225lbs for a strict overhead press. Currently sitting at 201lbs. I have ran 5/3/1 for months at a time(over a year cumulatively) and juggernaut about 4 times I believe.

My goals are to get stronger but at the same time I would love to add a bit more size. I have looked into jailhouse strong programming(purchased a couple of books actually) but I don’t have access to a prowler or sled(I strictly workout from home). The 8x8 off season program really peaked my interests. I also have a bunch of the Matias method books regarding powerlifting and I purchased an RP powerlifting template for hypertrophy, strength, and peaking. I also came across a very simplistic periodization template by Dave Tate but it has nothing in regards to accessory movements.

Any suggestions you can throw my way would be greatly appreciated.

I have the 8x8 by Josh Bryant...You can always sub out the prowler and sled work (I believe he even mentions how). I ran it a few weeks before I started really cutting.

You could always take a look at conjugate method. The way Matt Wenning and a few others do it, even Dave Tate, it’s great for raw lifters. If I’m looking to add weight to the bar, it’s my go-to, personally.

There’s also something like Swede Burns’ 5thSet method. I haven’t tried it, but it’s a decently advanced linear Periodization type.

 

[TheIncomparableMrHarrow]

@NovaFlex thank you.

 

[Ferenor]

Mmm if you got interested in the powerbuilding road, you might want to check Ben Pollack and found out he made a video about a combination of high volume and high intensity that he called "Mountain of Doggcrapp" , got inspired by John Meadows and Dante Trudel. Here's the link.

View: https://youtu.be/egtgby1N4e0

 

[Worf]

I’d say raw conjugate if you’re trying to put on size and increase lifts. You can program how you see fit to target weak areas. It’s 4 days a week. 2 lower , 2 upper. One of the days is for a heavy lift typically a variation of one of the comp lifts(block pulls, board presses, pin squats) then the other day is a speed day where you do the comp lift but focus on speed. The accessories can be what you do to build your self up. Target week points , wether it’s a lagging muscle group or a sticking point on a lift. Body building, extra practice on comp lifts, conditioning ( plyos , sleds, hammers, tires, log , etc). I believe the draw back of conjugate is that it relies very heavily on accessories and adding bw to increase strength. No need to do the bands and chains and specialty bars if you don’t want to. Imo that’s just people trying to emulate west side. Imo it’s not the best for a guy who wants to remain in a specific class but great for you if your needs include weight gain and have plenty of time.

Could also just power lift and do bodybuilding work after.

 

[TheIncomparableMrHarrow]

Decisions decisions. I have no idea what the fuck I am going to do. Right now I am basically doing PPL routine 6 days a week that focuses on the main lifts. It is mostly lighter weight than what I have been doing for the past 12 weeks.

I have about three more weeks to figure out what I am going to do. I would like to run a program into the summer months. I won’t cycle anything for at least a couple of months either, just TRT for now.

 

[Perrin Aybara]

Average to Savage 2.0 by Greg Nuckols might worth a look. There's a version with AMRAPs that determine progression and you can also choose how many days you want to lift, so you could do six if training that often is something you prefer.

 

[Eman]

I was thinking of the juggernaut AI power building app but not sure if I want to commit to its monthly costs.

The volume of the juggernaut powerbuilding program is insane. I am a big fan of juggernaut but that's one thing I don't think I could really recommend. Some of the training sessions probably aren't even that feasible unless you have a decent sized gym because everything is a superset. You have to test 0rir on every lift you do... Which, scientifically is a cool idea because you'll be working within ideal hypertrophy ranges but, I can't help but feel it's an over complication. If you don't truly enjoy tracking every single aspect of every single lift, you'll get burnt out fast. Not to mention, the training sessions can easily take +2hrs... And that's even with opting for 5 or 6 day a week programming. I've seen some people taking 3hrs but I feel like they might not be moving fast enough... I honestly have to question the algorithm they're using because the intensity of training is a very common complaint.

I think the powerlifting program they have is better, and you can just tailor it to more of a powerbuilding focus if you want. The hypertrophy blocks are good, and basic. The strength blocks compliment the hypertrophy blocks by encouraging your body to hold onto that new muscle you built.

In either program, you're not going to find a better "coaching" investment... It's like $30 a month, whereas you're looking at a few hundred for most coaches.

Marisa Inda from JTS used to run the powerbuilding club before the juggernaut AI programming was born. I think she still does her own coaching that's just a weekly programming spreadsheet... I was in the PB club and I honestly loved it. It was everything I was looking for in a program and I made some of my best progress on that programming. It also taught me a lot about program design and how to periodize training to get stronger. Might want to check that out. Ben Pollock's template programs are somewhat similar, but I would need to tailor them a bit personally.

 

[Jet Labs]

1- Push, High weight low reps(5-6) 3-4 working sets
2-Pull, Light weight max reps(12-16) 3-4 working sets
3-Legs, Squats only, high weight low reps(5-6) 8-10 sets
4-Push, Light weight max reps(12-16) 3-4 working sets
5-Pull, High weight low reps(5-6) 3-4 working sets
6-Quads/Hamstrings/Calfs, Light weight max reps(12-16) 3-4 sets
7-Off days/Eat big day

 

[NovaFlex]

The volume of the juggernaut powerbuilding program is insane. I am a big fan of juggernaut but that's one thing I don't think I could really recommend. Some of the training sessions probably aren't even that feasible unless you have a decent sized gym because everything is a superset. You have to test 0rir on every lift you do... Which, scientifically is a cool idea because you'll be working within ideal hypertrophy ranges but, I can't help but feel it's an over complication. If you don't truly enjoy tracking every single aspect of every single lift, you'll get burnt out fast. Not to mention, the training sessions can easily take +2hrs... And that's even with opting for 5 or 6 day a week programming. I've seen some people taking 3hrs but I feel like they might not be moving fast enough... I honestly have to question the algorithm they're using because the intensity of training is a very common complaint.

I think the powerlifting program they have is better, and you can just tailor it to more of a powerbuilding focus if you want. The hypertrophy blocks are good, and basic. The strength blocks compliment the hypertrophy blocks by encouraging your body to hold onto that new muscle you built.

In either program, you're not going to find a better "coaching" investment... It's like $30 a month, whereas you're looking at a few hundred for most coaches.

Marisa Inda from JTS used to run the powerbuilding club before the juggernaut AI programming was born. I think she still does her own coaching that's just a weekly programming spreadsheet... I was in the PB club and I honestly loved it. It was everything I was looking for in a program and I made some of my best progress on that programming. It also taught me a lot about program design and how to periodize training to get stronger. Might want to check that out. Ben Pollock's template programs are somewhat similar, but I would need to tailor them a bit personally.

Well shit. I was gonna give the jug app a go too.

 

[Eman]

Well shit. I was gonna give the jug app a go too.

The powerlifting AI is pretty good, I would recommend it. The PB app isn't out until next month... That, to me, still needs some work. But, the powerlifting AI app vs the AI spreadsheets they used to send out are very different so I expect it to be a more improved system.

The biggest thing with both of those programs is that you rate your fatigue and if you're not 100% honest or if you are even so much as slightly overzealous.. that program will make you pay dearly. The system thinks you're not fatigued, so it'll keep adding volume to compensate... There was originally no fail safe for that, so it could continue infinitely until they put a stop to it. The PL version is much more forgiving though, I think the hypertrophy blocks could be a little better but they're still solid.

I was looking through the private facebook page to see if there was any recent posts of the ridiculous shit that can happen so I could screen shot it but didn't find any... 10x10 squats at nasty RPE's happen and then you still have 12 other exercises to do, many supersets and occasionally tri sets, IIRC. I'm not 100% positive but I'm semi certain I once saw someone get hit with 10x10 at 0RIR squats. I really wanted to like it because I've been a JTS fan/follower for years... I'm hoping it has some updates with the new app.

One more side note, the new PB app is supposed to be attached to the PL app... So, you'll be able to switch between the programming without canceling and subscribing to different things. If you do try one of them, you'd be able to easily swap between them to try them out. They are going to have other apps come out for BJJ, strength and conditioning, oly lifting, etc. I'm a little pissy they didn't include strongman.

 

[Brandaddy]

Have you ever tried PH3? That was probably the program I've made the most gains on. Not a traditional powerlifting setup but if you follow it to a tee you will definitely get stronger. With all the volume, amraps, and accessory work you'll definitely put on size as well.

 

[NovaFlex]

The powerlifting AI is pretty good, I would recommend it. The PB app isn't out until next month... That, to me, still needs some work. But, the powerlifting AI app vs the AI spreadsheets they used to send out are very different so I expect it to be a more improved system.

The biggest thing with both of those programs is that you rate your fatigue and if you're not 100% honest or if you are even so much as slightly overzealous.. that program will make you pay dearly. The system thinks you're not fatigued, so it'll keep adding volume to compensate... There was originally no fail safe for that, so it could continue infinitely until they put a stop to it. The PL version is much more forgiving though, I think the hypertrophy blocks could be a little better but they're still solid.

I was looking through the private facebook page to see if there was any recent posts of the ridiculous shit that can happen so I could screen shot it but didn't find any... 10x10 squats at nasty RPE's happen and then you still have 12 other exercises to do, many supersets and occasionally tri sets, IIRC. I'm not 100% positive but I'm semi certain I once saw someone get hit with 10x10 at 0RIR squats. I really wanted to like it because I've been a JTS fan/follower for years... I'm hoping it has some updates with the new app.

One more side note, the new PB app is supposed to be attached to the PL app... So, you'll be able to switch between the programming without canceling and subscribing to different things. If you do try one of them, you'd be able to easily swap between them to try them out. They are going to have other apps come out for BJJ, strength and conditioning, oly lifting, etc. I'm a little pissy they didn't include strongman.

That’s awesome if they make them all in 1 app, at least the PB and PL.

And yeah, I can’t imagine they’ll let that slide. Sounds like a problem in the algorithm lmao. That’s nuts.

 

[Worf]

Have you ever tried PH3? That was probably the program I've made the most gains on. Not a traditional powerlifting setup but if you follow it to a tee you will definitely get stronger. With all the volume, amraps, and accessory work you'll definitely put on size as well.

I forgot about that one. Really good advice

 

[Btcowboy]

Have you ever tried PH3? That was probably the program I've made the most gains on. Not a traditional powerlifting setup but if you follow it to a tee you will definitely get stronger. With all the volume, amraps, and accessory work you'll definitely put on size as well.

Another similar I loved was PHAT

 

[TheIncomparableMrHarrow]

I forgot to mention that I have done both PHAT and PHUL. Thank you for all the recommendations. Keep them coming. I have looked at Average to savage program and it seems very similar to the juggernaut apps with the auto regulation. Last night I was reading a bit of the periodization bible by Tate. Still trying to figure out what I am going to do. I will look into PH3.

 

[Worf]

Block style training is another good option